REM_7600

HCO - you're running a little overkill (those ARE mighty cannons)? but I also have experienced tag soup!

My guess from the sling comment... You saw some time for the US, my gratitude's...

REM7600

PS: Yeah my .338 Win Mag is a little overkill too, bottom line, IT works! I go the lighter side with a 200 Nosler BT or a 210 Partition.

hunters_life

Something else that hasn't been mentioned is west vs east. In the eastern states, most of them anyway, a shot over 200 yards is a rare thing whereas in the western states, again most of them, a 200 yard shot is the normal distance. Easily manageable rifles such as lever action and shorter bolt action rifles chambered in .30cal+ cartridges for heavy woods and brush are what most hunters prefer and use in the east. In the west a long barreled rifle set up for 400 yard shots is more what people seem to want to migrate to and shooting flat shooting cartridges like the .300wm and such magnum cartridges. I've taken a few at 500+ and took some scolding from the old man in the process even though the few I took at longer ranges where dropped right where they stood or within a few yards. He was of the school that noone, no matter how good of a shot they are, should be shooting at a live animal past 400 yards because of the time it takes for the bullet to get to the target. That animal could take a step from the break of the trigger to bullet impact and what would have been a perfect heart shot would be a forward gut shot. Just some things to think about I guess as to why the .30-06 is fading away a bit even though it is probably the most perfect cartridge ever created.

homers brother

While many of us westerners may pride ourselves on statements such as that one, I've yet to take a shot at a big game animal over 175 yards away, despite having hunted exclusively in "western states" for nigh on 40 years. Pronghorns, Whitetails, Muleys, and Elk.

Sometimes, that's just the way the land lays out in front of you. I can't remember ever finding an "elk meadow" that was over 200 yards across. And while it's not uncommon to spot animals on the next ridge, the practical arguments against taking a shot are very obvious. Unless you drop an animal in its tracks, you're going to be in for a very unpleasant tracking job once you finally cross the canyon to the point you think you may have hit him. Out in sagebrush country, one bush looks like the next. Good luck finding a blood trail.

Flat-shooting rifles often make for some ethically questionable shots out here when wielded by someone who watches too many youtube videos or thinks that the blank space on the living room wall speaks to them in their dreams.

hardcastonly

years ago I saw a game department survey made where they asked hundreds of hunters at a western BLM check point, to look out at 5 different colored flags placed at random but carefully measured distances and write down what each person estimated the distance too be from the check point, they were handed a pen and a survey card, they were told NONE of the colored flags were at an even 100 yard multiple but that was the only info , each flag was a different, color, placed in a
different direction and at a different distance.
the survey taker pointed out each colored flag and asked them to write down their estimated range!
they tabulated the actual hunters field estimates being made on the spot, vs the carefully measure actual distances.
.
.
the results were about what Id have expected..after decades of listening to guys claim they killed deer & elk at 400 and 500 and 600 yards.......
the vast majority were very VERY bad at estimating distances correctly past about 150 yards...some estimates that were over 70% wrong were not uncommon

hunters_life

I myself don't even try to estimate yardage past 200. That's what laser range finders are for. Or Mil Dot calculations to get reasonably close, better than straight eye guesstimation.

homers_brother, my normal range is within 100 yards since I, 75% of the time, am using a sidelock muzzleloader. The few times I have even attempted longer range shots were out west, Colorado to be specific, at animals I knew I wasn't going to be able to get up on due to time limitations. As in finding them in a feeding meadow but they are about to head out to bed. Never went cross canyon on a shot for the very reason you listed. I'm only a little stupid not completely brain dead.

homers brother

I'm not surprised. I was on the 300 yard berm with another guy once who insisted we were on 500, and the 200 yard berm was halfway, so 250 yards from us. Let it suffice to say that he was using just a bit too much elevation?

Estimating range is truly a unique skill that must be practiced. LRFs make practice easier, as you have something to check your guess from, but even LRFs can send an incorrect reading under the right conditions. A mil-dot reticle will compensate for that, but most of us probably aren't fast enough with the math to use it to estimate range on a target about to bolt. Your own pace count is handy to know as well.

Me? I'm pretty good to 300 but just haven't experienced a need to shoot over 175, and that was on a pronghorn in open country. My equipment is usually much better on paper than I am. I've stalked close enough to deer and pronghorn to take them with an open-sighted handgun. We're all different though. Some can shoot long, some can't. Some need to shoot long, some don't. If you can't stalk close, better learn to shoot well long. If you can't shoot long, then you'd better learn to stalk.

REM_7600

Great discussion guys,

I don't agree with MOST Westerners having to shoot extended distances. I can count(if I remember correctly) on 7 fingers the number of what I call long range (250+ to 560) with the majority coming in under 300. Most of my game is taken between 25 and 100 yards.

Judging range in open country SUCKS (Central Washington), in the wooded country I hunt in Idaho it's much easier. Be careful out beyond 350 guys! JMO

I'm working on ole Betsy that has done it's job well on most species in North America. The others I haven't hunted yet!

Funny you should mention the West vs East. I am making the 7600 an East to West Coast whitetail gun. (Yes it will handle just about any task). My last step is coming up with a 180 or 200gr load in either Accubond or Interbond.

As for range? look at ANY high velocity round in the ballistic tables. At 500, there's an obvious risk of missing or not making a well placed shot, even given no wind!

REM7600

See Attached for my project (no, I haven't thrown out any original parts)

Ridge Runner

I have taken 64 whitetails beyond 400 yards, have overseen the shots taken on dozens more, beyond 300 yards range estimation is futile, and BTW I do not even own a 30 caliber.
RR

REM_7600

RR, fully agreed - unless pre-scouted and ranged. GPS or Laser.

if I had to guess I'd say you have a 7 Mag, tremendous cartridge.

My 338 will give it a run for its money though! <Big Grin>

REM7600

BarnesX.308

I recently bought a 6.5 Creedmoor. And I always said, it was an answer to a question that nobody asked. Why did I finally buy one? It was something I didn't already have. I already had a 308, 30-06, 300 Win and 300 Wby. Had a 25-06, 222 Rem and a 7mm Rem Mag. Also had a 45-70. The only 6.5 I ever owned was a 6.5 Carcano, and that don't count.

I actually love the Creedmoor. It is very accurate and kicks very little. Very pleasant to shoot. And it uses half the powder as my Weatherby.

And I hunt in PA, where my shots are 20-50 yards, for the most part.