Ballistics?
 

I have purchased a Ruger Hawkeye FTW in a 30-06 caliber because it was what I thought a great deal. I was thinking of now trading it for a 300win mag. Does a 300 Win mag offer a significant increase in performance to a 30-06? I was thinking of it as a possible western mountain rifle for game such as elk. I know both are capable but is it worth the trade in or additional money? I looked at other articles but it only seems to gain 300fps with the 300mag. I also compare charts and still seem to get the impression that the 30-06 and 270 run about the same bullet path, where everyone else says the 270 is the flatter shooting of the two.
Mike

Out to 300 yd. there is no significant advantage to a 300 WM over 30-06. When you factor the ammo costs and the difference in recoil into a practice session, I think the advantage would be to the '06. You can't shoot well unless you practice. Practicing with a 300 is more expensive and uncomfortable than an '06.

I would not hesitate to hunt 99% of the game on earth with a 30-06. While the 300 Win may give you a little extra velocity and slightly flatter trajectory, at hunting ranges on game neither are really relevant. The inch or two in trajectory doesn't matter when your target is between 8 inches and a foot in diameter which the vital area on big game is and a bullet from a 30-06 in the vitals equates to a dead game animal.

Do as you wish but there is a reason the 30-06 is so popular in the world. It works. Period.

I use an 30-06 for deer elk and caribou. More than adequate when used at reasonable range. That popular caliber is easy to get off the shelf in a wide range of factory loads. Being a still hunter I like lite weight guns more available in a non magnum caliber and action.

I have read the previous posts and do not disagree with them, but I'm going to answer in somewhat of a different vein.


The difference is I would suggest you think not about trading in a first rifle to buy a second rifle but instead, keep the first rifle AND buy the second rifle! The .30-06 is such an all-around rifle, its ammunition availability in different brands and bullet configurations, it is a no-brainer to always have one of these. It can serve as your back-up rifle on out-of-state hunting trips (you really ought to take a back-up on such trips because if something happens to your only rifle . . . then how much time, effort, money are down the tubes because your one tool is out of commission?).


But feel free to keep the .30-06 and buy a .300 Winchester magnum. Of, if it were me, to keep the .30-06 and take a bigger step up to the .338 Winchester Magnum. If you want to hunt whitetail deer and pronghorn antelope, it might make sense to keep the .30-06 and buy a .25-06, which is great for deer and pronghorn.


I use the .30-06 to kill elk, and it has not let me down so far on the three elk I have killed. It hasn't let down my hunting partners who have taken many more elk than I have, also with the .30-06.

Generally, I don't consider the ~300fps differential between the 30-06 and 300wm, but rather, I consider the 300wm is capable of considerably heavier bullets without sacrificing significant velocity impacts. I can get 220's to the same speed in the WM as I can the 178's in the 06. I don't generally go all the way to the 220's, but shooting the 208's and 212's gives me about 0.15 boost in BC (recoil be d@mned).

That extra weight might not mean much for a guy, and certainly doesn't mean anything until a guy is talking "heavier than elk" game, otherwise you're just punching a bigger hole in the dirt on the back side.

The 30-06 will do anything a guy asks it to do on the American continents, and until you get to dangerous game in Africa, which generally require 375 & larger anyway, the .30-06 will keep you well armed on any "whitetail and up" game.

The only downside, I might mention, despite being a Ruger fan myself - the Hawkeye's are heavy, and since you mentioned "mountain rifle," that's a consideration. The extra weight is certainly nice to tame recoil in the 30-06, but for hauling that thing up and down and 'round and 'round, they end up about a pound and a half heavier than you might find in a Remington 700. I've never struggled to carry heavy rifles in the field, but some guys become real weight weenies when you start talking "mountain rifles."

Thank you for the input, I have a 30-06 and a 25-06 but for this new Ruger Hawkeye FTW for $500.00 I thought it seemed like a good deal. It does seem a little on the heavy side that's why I thought if I could trade it for the larger 300 it may work better but hate to spend more money to upgrade if there is only a small margin of increased benefits. Second question, is the 270 much flatter then 30-06? when I look at graphs they seem to be the same comparing same bullet weights.

If I only had one rifle to hunt North America it would be a bolt action 30-06.

However, I do shoot both a 30-06 and a 300 WM. The 300 WM is my favorite elk rifle and I have taken a bunch of elk with it. The little bit of extra range helps, as does the heavier bullet. A broadside elk at 300 yards or less can be cleanly taken with less powerful cartridges, but for a nonresident hunter with limited time the perfect situation does not always occur.

For game lighter than elk I do not think there is much advantage to any magnum cartridge unless you are a long range shooter. Hard recoiling rifles will expose any flaws in a fellow's shooting form and are a bit more expensive to shoot.

mjw176, you are asking a question that has been argued heatedly since before I was born. To answer your .270 vs. .30-06 question would entail a lot of typing to say a very simple thing, it all depends on the bullets fired. There are a lot of differences in bullets of the same weight between .308 and the .277 bullets. And with some of them, the .277 will have a better over all ballistic coefficient and with others the .308 will come out on top. Then you have the rifle itself to consider, as in, consistent chamber dimensions, bore cut, rifling, barrel thickness, bolt face true or not, even cartridge variations can come into play. I myself feel, overall, the .30-06 has the advantage over the .270 and the .300wm squeeks a little ahead of the .30-06 because of the longer range with a heavier bullet but as Flags and others mentioned, in ranges that 99% of hunters should ethically even think of taking a shot, there is really no difference between the .300wm and the .30-06. Past around 400 yards, the .300wm will have a good advantage. That initial +300fps combined with a good BC bullet will carry a lot more energy downrange than most think.

Since you already have a the 06 duo i would ask myself....What round offers something the other 2 do not.

Do i want more knock down for heavier game or less recoil but maintain a flat trajectory?

What bullets are offered to achieve these goals?

How expensive and hard to find are these bullets?

a 30.06 w/ 150gr will actually shoot flatter than a 270 w/ 150gr, but a 270 with 130gr will shoot flatter than a 30.06 w/150gr.

If you could get a 30.06 to shoot a premium 150gr bullet well, I'd go that route, like a Barnes TTSX, or Nosler Accubond, Swift Scirocco. At least when talking elk/long range etc... I'm a fan of 1 gun 1 load 1 bullet. ie, if it'll kill an elk at 400yards, it'll kill an antelope/mule deer at 400yds.

It's hard for me to argue 30.06 vs 300win mag., get both! ha. or add a 338win.mag, 340wby,

or 270 and 300win.mag.

The 280 is worth checking out. Comparing 140gr bullets out of the 280 and a 270 the energy at 200 yards is nearly identical and the bullet drop using similar ballistics coefficient bullets is identical. Compared to a 30-06 shooting 150gr bullets the 280 carries more energy at 200 yards and drops less.

If it were me and you already have an 06 I think I would go with the one poster above and in lieu of a 300WM go with a 338WM. Maybe a bit overkill for elk but still an excellent choice and also for moose and the big bears. It's not like you're going to be shooting it alot anyway so why not go the one step further?

I read the entire thread.
I assume bronco is referring to "the one poster above"
is the 1 at the top. If so, I agree with both.

My thinking is that to add another rifle, I want one with either
1) capable of a 50% increase in bullet weight at the same velocity
or
2) capable of a 500 fps increase in velocity with the same bullet wt.


SO...Keep the 30-06 (never a bad decision!)
and
Consider adding a 338 something in the future,
as you gain experience hunting with the 30-06.

PS: Your experience may be that there is no need for more.

I have both 30-06 and 300 Mag. The 300 mag is a 30-06 (.308 cal) with a bigger casing. The 30-06 is lighter and that is why it goes hunting all the time. Both will get the job done with off the shelf ammo, like power points, for about a buck a pop. $18 vs $25 a box

Yes....it works quite well as does the .308 etc. When a rifle is manufactured for military applications, that pretty much guarantees a lot of popularity. People are prone to stick with the familiar and the rounds become affordable and easy to find.

Changing subjects a bit here....rifle weight can become a large consideration. I'm an XL guy and never considered the weight of my 338/378 Weatherby. I'll be darned, it feels like I am carrying a cannon after hours of walking at 9-10,000 feet.

That is why I often carry my 300 Mag, I don't notice the weight near as much. Recoil? If anything, recoil adds to the excitement when shooting.

We are all entitled to our opinion of course. Mine is that the .338 Mag may be the "ideal" elk load....all things considered.

We all know that shot placement is where it is. But the perfect shot opportunity may prove elusive.

depends on how heavy of rifle you have- i don't believe magnum should be in the same sentence as lightweight...... my 2 cents

If you want a new rifle, why not just buy one if you can afford too? Id be the last guy to suggest buying a new rifle is not a good idea.
but that being stated...from my experience ,theres not enough real effective difference in the actual field results I've seen on game (mostly deer and elk)
over 45 plus years of hunting, between a 30/06 vs a 300 mag
too make buying and using a 300 mag ,vs using your current 30/06 a major improvement.
a 300 mag pushes the same bullets maybe 300 fps faster or allows a heavier bullet to be pushed to similar velocity.
a 30/06 with the correct ammo kills elk very effectively,
its shot placement not power thats the major factor in lethality, and despite what you see in magazines,
most deer and elk are killed at under 300 yards,
you might be better served with a high quality scope, upgrade.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/13...-16x50mm-matte
if your looking to upgrade the rifle hitting power, a 338 win with a 250 grain bullet, or a 375 H&H with a 270 grain bullet makes more sense.
while the paper ballistics may not show the increase very effectively, a premium quality a 250-270 grain bullet hits noticeably harder and penetrates well,
something that the lighter 30 ca;l may not always do, nearly as effectively, but again,
its shot placement not power thats the major factor in lethality
,and a 30/06 with a premium 180-190 grain bullet will kill any elk in skilled hands with good shot placement.



http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/de...?Caliber=30-06 Springfield&Weight=All&type=rifle&Source

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/de...sp?Caliber=300 Winchester Magnum&Weight=All&type=rifle&Order=Powder&Source=

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/de...sp?Caliber=338 Winchester Magnum&Weight=All&type=rifle&Order=Powder&Source=

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/de...sp?Caliber=375 HqqqH&Weight=All&type=rifle&Order=Powder&Source=

My thought has always been bullet weight vs caliber. If your going to shoot .308 projectiles in the 150-180 class then the 30-06 is just great. If your going to maximize the potential of the 180-230 class bullets then the 300WM and up calibers will do what your seeking. After saying that I'm pushing a 165gr bullet out of my 300 WM at 3260 fps with sub moa accuracy and at 500yds the ft lbs is pretty impressive. But what is the end result of what your trying to do with the caliber?

30-06 has killed more game than you can count.You have a good gun keep it.