Corner jumping
12-13-2016, 06:39 PM
#1
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: WI
Posts: 1,089
Corner jumping
Corner jumping or corner hopping, when you cross public land, where the corners touch like a checker board is illegal in WY. Don't do it even if you here/think it's legal. It used to be legal but a few years back the laws changed. There is lots of BLM land that is land-locked out west, I hear the checker board land, started due to the Rail Roads wanting lots of "free" land. The current law is that the air above the property is owned for several hundred feet up. Anyway you need a helicopter to legally hunt lots of BLM land, I find the whole thing ridiculous.
12-13-2016, 07:09 PM
#2
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
Sorry gjersey, but you are incorrect in regards to your opening statements. There was never a law saying it was legal and there is presently no law in Wyoming that says it is illegal. In fact, there has never been a law addressing it. FYI a guy was given a ticket by a G&F Warden a few years ago and he took it to court and the Judge tossed out the case because there was and still is no law saying corner crossing was/is illegal. The Wardens were then told by their head Warden not to issue a ticket for it and were all given a Garmin GPS with a landowner chip so they can determine exactly where property lines are to help make decisions in the field as to whether a person has trespassed. I can't remember which county that happened in, but the G&F is staying with that decision and is not issuing tickets for it. That came right from the GW I have known well for at least 15 years where I hunt out there every year. However, a County Sheriff may decide to issue a ticket for it depending on what county you are hunting in. The best way to handle that if you think you want to access some public land that is only accessible that way is to visit the authorities in that county, that being the County Sheriff, as well as the County Prosecutor, to see what their stance is on the issue. This is a big problem out west where millions of acres of OUR public lands are tied up by private land surrounding them. I would definitely not take a chance on corner jumping without doing as I mentioned, but just be aware that the G&F is not issuing tickets anywhere in Wyoming for corner jumping at the present time.
Last edited by Topgun 3006; 12-13-2016 at 07:15 PM. Reason: spelling
12-13-2016, 07:22 PM
#3
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: ****ifornia
Posts: 5,052
Illegal to hunt out of a helicopter, must wait 24 hours after landing to start hunting.
I don't understand what you mean by "corner hopping"? If I'm on public land all the time then what am I hopping? I'm confused...
I don't understand what you mean by "corner hopping"? If I'm on public land all the time then what am I hopping? I'm confused...
12-13-2016, 07:32 PM
#4
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
Corner hopping is also called corner jumping and sometimes corner crossing. It is when there is a common corner where two of the pieces of land are private property and the other two are public land. To do what we're talking about you would be on one legally accessible piece of public land and step across the corner where the four properties meet onto the other piece of public land without touching the private property when doing it. I would never do it unless the corner was marked with a legal survey marker and also doing what I mentioned in my post about contacting the county authorities where the land is located. That 24 hour "in the air" comment also varies from state to state with many not having anything on the books. Alaska and Wyoming are two that do though.
12-13-2016, 07:53 PM
#5
Nontypical Buck
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: WI
Posts: 1,089
Well maybe your right Topgun, but I was kicked off BLM land by a rancher and he was backed up by a warden who later said corner jumping is now illegal, I avoided a trespass fine fortunately. Either way I won't corner jump anymore.
12-13-2016, 08:26 PM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,695
That "rancher" was more than likely someone getting paid by outfitters for property use. Or was an outfitter/guide himself. It's getting to be absolutely ridiculous the way these guys are buying up adjoining properties to BLM's just to landlock access to prevent public hunting without paying them outrageous fees and such. But as Topper put it, while not illegal, it sure aint advisable just simply for the hassle effect.
12-14-2016, 03:49 AM
#7
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,230
There are conflicted things online about it. But I did find the following:
So it looks like it depends on who is doing the interpretation. BLM is Fed Land so if I was ticketed for using Fed Land without stepping on private land I'd be getting a lawyer and seeing what the Feds have to say since state law can't overrule Fed law. An organization like SCI or DSC would probably take up the case pro bono since they protect hunter's rights.
GREEN RIVER - Douglas hunter Bill Kearney always suspected it wasn't illegal to corner jump over private land while hunting. Now he has a state opinion backing up his contention.
The Douglas sportsmen was acquitted of trespass charges in April after he used a Global Positioning System (GPS) device to step from one parcel of public land to another while hunting in Albany County in September 2003. The practice is known as corner jumping or corner crossing.
The case prompted the Wyoming Game and Fish Department to seek a State Attorney General opinion reviewing the agency's long-standing assumption that corner jumping is illegal.
The AG opinion released by the department said corner jumping from one parcel of public land to another in order to hunt on the other public parcel does not violate Game and Fish regulations.
The opinion said corner jumping does not violate agency rules because, to be convicted, the rules require a person must hunt or intend to hunt on private property without permission. Corner jumping, however, may be a criminal trespass under state law, the opinion said.
"I'm just delighted with (the opinion) and think it's great … it was certainly worth spending the money and challenging this in court," Kearney said.
"A real positive aspect of the opinion is with the increasing pressure from hunters and sportsmen and rockhounds and whoever … it's a good thing that could result in public access to large tracts of public lands," he said.
"The Game and Fish can now use its license fee money and not waste their time dealing with people legally accessing public lands in court."
Corner jumping describes the practice of stepping over the corner created where four sections of land meet in order to reach a cater-corner parcel of public lands.
Kearney stepped from one parcel of public land to another. The parcels met at a corner where two pieces of private land also meet.
Game and Fish Director Terry Cleveland said the opinion means the agency will change its method of handling corner jumping complaints.
"If somebody calls us and tells us there's corner jumping occurring, we'll simply tell them we don't have the authority to do something about it," Cleveland said in a phone interview.
"If they call us on a trespass situation and we get out there and find it's a corner jumping complaint … then we'll tell them they should take it up with the county sheriff or the county attorney," he said.
Bob Wharff, executive director for Wyoming Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife, said while he fears the ruling might chip away at private property rights, it could lead to more open and frank discussions about access to public lands.
"Even the best GPS units that are available are only accurate to three meters and three meters doesn't get you close enough to say you're actually jumping from corner to corner," Wharff said in an interview.
"I think it's a dangerous precedent that the opinion sets … we're all for access, but I'm real nervous about private property rights and the erosion of those rights," he said.
"But on the other hand, we may see that there's going to be a little bit more willingness for landowners to come to the table and talk about access … and ultimately help us broach some of those roadblocks (to access) that may have been there in the past."
The Douglas sportsmen was acquitted of trespass charges in April after he used a Global Positioning System (GPS) device to step from one parcel of public land to another while hunting in Albany County in September 2003. The practice is known as corner jumping or corner crossing.
The case prompted the Wyoming Game and Fish Department to seek a State Attorney General opinion reviewing the agency's long-standing assumption that corner jumping is illegal.
The AG opinion released by the department said corner jumping from one parcel of public land to another in order to hunt on the other public parcel does not violate Game and Fish regulations.
The opinion said corner jumping does not violate agency rules because, to be convicted, the rules require a person must hunt or intend to hunt on private property without permission. Corner jumping, however, may be a criminal trespass under state law, the opinion said.
"I'm just delighted with (the opinion) and think it's great … it was certainly worth spending the money and challenging this in court," Kearney said.
"A real positive aspect of the opinion is with the increasing pressure from hunters and sportsmen and rockhounds and whoever … it's a good thing that could result in public access to large tracts of public lands," he said.
"The Game and Fish can now use its license fee money and not waste their time dealing with people legally accessing public lands in court."
Corner jumping describes the practice of stepping over the corner created where four sections of land meet in order to reach a cater-corner parcel of public lands.
Kearney stepped from one parcel of public land to another. The parcels met at a corner where two pieces of private land also meet.
Game and Fish Director Terry Cleveland said the opinion means the agency will change its method of handling corner jumping complaints.
"If somebody calls us and tells us there's corner jumping occurring, we'll simply tell them we don't have the authority to do something about it," Cleveland said in a phone interview.
"If they call us on a trespass situation and we get out there and find it's a corner jumping complaint … then we'll tell them they should take it up with the county sheriff or the county attorney," he said.
Bob Wharff, executive director for Wyoming Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife, said while he fears the ruling might chip away at private property rights, it could lead to more open and frank discussions about access to public lands.
"Even the best GPS units that are available are only accurate to three meters and three meters doesn't get you close enough to say you're actually jumping from corner to corner," Wharff said in an interview.
"I think it's a dangerous precedent that the opinion sets … we're all for access, but I'm real nervous about private property rights and the erosion of those rights," he said.
"But on the other hand, we may see that there's going to be a little bit more willingness for landowners to come to the table and talk about access … and ultimately help us broach some of those roadblocks (to access) that may have been there in the past."
Last edited by flags; 12-14-2016 at 03:52 AM.
12-14-2016, 04:24 AM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: WI
Posts: 1,089
Yes Flags I read that also, thanks for posting it. I think thats why I didn't get a fine, but it could've went either way. They might figure what out of state guy is going to come back and fight it, it's easier to just pay the fine. I ran into a BLM ranger later and told him the situation, he said he doesn't get involved in corner jumping. I'm just glad i didn't shoot game that morning, that would've been a can of worms!
Last edited by gjersy; 12-14-2016 at 04:27 AM.
12-14-2016, 06:22 AM
#9
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
It's a huge issue out west and rest assured that there are a lot of ranchers and outfitters that will try to bluff you off legal public land and even post legal roads as private property to keep the public land to themselves and their high paying customers. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I wouldn't even think of corner jumping without contacting the county officials and even then if there was not a survey stake at the corner would not depend on any GPS to say you were at the corner since they are great, but not right down to the foot like a survey marker is! Thanks for posting that ruling flags. I was ready for bed last night when I typed that post and didn't take the time to look it up, but knew the gist of it. I did think it was more recent than 13 years ago, so time does go fast when you're having fun, as they say, LOL!
12-14-2016, 06:28 AM
#10
Fork Horn
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Up on the Milk River
Posts: 459
Paragraph from August 10, 2015 Outdoor Life:
For lack of clearer guidance, most jurisdictions have, according to University of Colorado Law School Professor Mark Squillace, based their positions on the 1979 Supreme Court case, Leo Sheep Company vs. United States. In it, the U.S. government was denied a road easement across Leo Sheep Company land; an easement that it claimed was necessary for access to the federally managed Seminoe Reservoir in central Wyoming. It’s a stretch, of course, to equate road construction with a hunter stepping over a corner. But the case set a precedent for the supremacy of private property rights in matters of public-land access. That’s been good enough to lock hunters out of otherwise legally accessible land in most of the intermountain West.
For lack of clearer guidance, most jurisdictions have, according to University of Colorado Law School Professor Mark Squillace, based their positions on the 1979 Supreme Court case, Leo Sheep Company vs. United States. In it, the U.S. government was denied a road easement across Leo Sheep Company land; an easement that it claimed was necessary for access to the federally managed Seminoe Reservoir in central Wyoming. It’s a stretch, of course, to equate road construction with a hunter stepping over a corner. But the case set a precedent for the supremacy of private property rights in matters of public-land access. That’s been good enough to lock hunters out of otherwise legally accessible land in most of the intermountain West.