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-   -   why over pay (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/big-game-hunting/404448-why-over-pay.html)

smitty0538 02-09-2016 04:42 PM

why over pay
 
So like many other hunters this time of year I have cabin fever. So lots of time spent looking at dream hunts I can not afford etc. I have noticed some web sites and adds on craigs list showing a break down of cost for these big game hunts. example 2 hunters should pay one guide like $250 a day (or more) each and he guides them both at the same time. The guide is being paid $500 per day ! Why if you both kill your animals on say by day three do they feel you should continue to pay for the remaining days on say a 7 day hunt ???? So the two of you are paying this guide $500 a day for days your not even being guided. On top of that they are you expecting you to pay them a 15 to 20% tip. does anyone see logic in this ???

CalHunter 02-09-2016 04:51 PM

Yes and no. I can see how if we both went on a guided hunt and both got our animal on the 1st day of a 7-day hunt, the guide wouldn't be able to just bring another client in for that next 6 days or 7 if he was trying to book another 7-day hunt. I can see their point of view on that, especially since I highly doubt wither of us would go on some guaranteed hunt with animals in some kind of pen.

Now the daily rate for 2 hunters instead of one, is a different story. Most of the guided hunts I've seen charge a set rate for one hunter and a discount of just a few hundred dollars if a 2nd hunter or buddy goes with you. That isn't much of a discount and seems to be designed to discourage people from booking a hunt for 2 hunters instead of 1. I can see charging a little extra for 2 hunters (more food, horses, tents, etc.) but darn near double does not seem like any kind of a deal at all. JMHO but that's how I've seen this.

smitty0538 02-09-2016 05:50 PM

I was only referring to his time guiding. The food, horses, tents, etc are a separate issue. I still do not feel its fair to pay a man or women for something they do not work for. When I go to work and I get a job done in 3 days instead of 5. I do not get paid for 5 days, I am told I have no more work for you this week so see ya Monday and enjoy your next two days off.

CalHunter 02-09-2016 06:08 PM

That is a very valid point. OTOH, a guide is only working his guiding job during the hunting season while you are presumably working year round at your job. Not saying you don't have a point (you do), just saying I can see (and have heard) the guide's point of view also. Technically, it's the outfitter making those big bucks and the guide is probably working day to day like you do in your job.

Topgun 3006 02-09-2016 06:10 PM

I think you guys are getting guiding and outfitting mixed up. They are not the same in that an outfitter is the person you book your hunt with. Normally that should be done with a written contract with all the specifics of what the hunt will include. Most hunts, unless they are for something like sheep that can go for $20K+ for one person and one or more guides, is for one guide to two persons. If you want to have a guide all to yourself there is an extra charge for that. Most guides work for an outfitter that probably doesn't pay a wage that would be considered enough to support possibly more than themselves and, therefore, they rely a lot on tips from their hunters. Those tips vary a lot depending on how much the person feels the guide did to provide a good hunt and put them on animals to the best of their ability. It may be 10% or maybe 30% of what the outfitted hunt cost depending on the means the hunter has. I can tell you that none of these guides or even the outfitters are getting rich in the short seasons they are working with and what it costs to run an outfit.

smitty0538 02-09-2016 06:45 PM

I believe most guides and outfitters also do other things during the year to make money. I know the guides have to and agree there not paid all the money. But I do not believe this is something they should try and make a years salary in a few months, and based on some of those hunt cost out there that is what there trying to do. Its a sad truth but hunting big game has become a rich mans sport. The fees each state charges for permits and licences is also nuts.

Topgun 3006 02-09-2016 07:24 PM


Originally Posted by smitty0538 (Post 4244240)
I believe most guides and outfitters also do other things during the year to make money. I know the guides have to and agree there not paid all the money. But I do not believe this is something they should try and make a years salary in a few months, and based on some of those hunt cost out there that is what there trying to do. Its a sad truth but hunting big game has become a rich mans sport. The fees each state charges for permits and licences is also nuts.

I guess I would have to argue that it's not up to you what you think they should or shouldn't be doing the rest of the year to try and make a living. Would you tell a guy that is a roofer what he should or shouldn't do the rest of the year when the weather doesn't allow him to make a living? You must not have any idea what all it takes to be an outfitter. I'll tell you a few of their costs that they have to get back in just a few months of work. They are: liability insurance, fess paid to the BLM or USFS if they outfit on public land, lease fees if they outfit on private land, advertising, maintaining a stable full of horses or mules year around or paying a goodly fee if they rent stock, tack maintenance or rental costs, vehicle costs and upkeep, tents and the other camp gear that wears out through regular use, etc. Those are just a few of the things I can think of right off the top of my head. That is the reason that guided hunts cost what they do and, yes, it is getting to be a rich man's sport if you would try to go on a guided hunt every year. I have only been on two guided mule deer hunts in my life and probably won't be taking any more, but not because of the cost involved. It's more that a DIY hunt is what I prefer if at all possible and that's what I do every year in Wyoming every Fall. I can go out there with my trailer for a couple months and probably not spend more that $2K with a lot of that being for fuel.

wyomingtrapper 02-09-2016 07:54 PM

The value of the service (outfitter or guide) is what is supported by the market. Whether we as individuals can afford that is based on our circumstance and priorities. As soon a tip becomes mandatory or a set price is determined; it becomes a fee for service, not a gratuity. Gratuity is a self determined amount to show appreciation. One thing to consider about guides and how much they work is that many (not all) do some scouting with or even independent of the outfitter. It is time consuming and requires fuel, supplies, etc. I expect it is rare for them to get paid for that.

smitty0538 02-09-2016 07:56 PM

I do not see anywhere in my words that I stated they should or shouldn't do anything. I said I believe that they do work other places. Its not my place or yours to say what someone should do. The same as a roofer I wont tell him to look for other work during the season he can not be roofing , its his choice to do with his time as he pleases. But I also will not pay a roofer to work on my house that cost what doing 5 houses should cost. I will not refer him either. If you read my original post all I stated was I read a breakdown of cost and wondered why a daily guiding fee was fair to be charged for days not guiding.

smitty0538 02-09-2016 08:04 PM

wyomingtrapper I believe you hit the nail on the head . They charge as much as the feel they can get based on the demand of the market. I do see in my trade (hvac) its more common now to see job prices get higher and higher not because the cost of doing the job is going up but if people will pay it lets keep rising it.


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