Non-magnum lovers...?
 

Any non magnum lovers out there?

Curious what your Antelope-Deer-Elk setups consist of?

Kind of thinking what can't you do with a .243win and .270win?

When do I need say a .300 win mag/wsm over a .270 for elk?

Also thinking a 6.5lbs 270 sounds more fun than a .300wsm 6.5-7.5lbs rifle.

I've never found a need for magnums. I've used the .270, 30-06, and .308 to take deer, moose and elk at ranges up to 300 yards. I preferred the .270 by a small amount. If I were to go up in caliber it would be to something like a .338-06 or a 35 whelen, possibly a 350 rem mag.

im a big 270 fan. have shot many deer with them that never made a step after impact. i also own .300 win mags. biggest advantage is the 300 can give you a little more distance over the 270. ballistics they fly almost the same

I've shot a 7mm mag for years but lately I find myself enjoying a couple of non-magnum metrics: 6.5x55 Swedish in a Rem Model 700 Classic, 6.5x54 MS in a model 1903 Mannlicher Schoenauer carbine and a 9.3x62 in a CZ model 500 American.

When youre on the internet

I shoot a 280 in a model 700 mountain rifle . It's light weight and very accurate.

Yep
-Jake

Classic cartridge guy.....................

Love them all !

But no short mags for me !!!

Anything I can't fire more than a few rounds from, in the prone position, I lose interest fast.

I call it "kill in front and cripple behind". Maybe I need some more meat on my shoulders?

I borrowed a 7mm mag from a buddy just to see how I liked it. I fired maybe six rounds from the prone position and my arm was numb. Guess I'm just a wuss.

I'm also a fan of non-magnums. My favorite rifles are .270, 30-06 and 7-08 in that order. Except when I want to hit with authority at close range than I reach for my .45-70 with heavy handloads. With either one of these I can tackle anything on this continent and most in Africa.

I am currently hunting whitetail with a .243 and would feel confident on using it on any whitetail, pronghorn, mule deer, really any deer size animal. I have a .270 but want a 30-06 for being able to shoot bigger pills over the .270 140gr or 150gr bullets. Just my personal preference but I honestly think the .243 is the perfect size cartridge for ranges most of us averages hunters shoot (400 yards or under) and think the .243 is over looked. I have never seen the need for magnum calibers because I never reach out that far to use the capabilities of a magnum caliber.

Bullets placed in the correct spot mean much more than headstamps.

It really depends on what I'm hunting. 270 is what I use most for deer, antelope and some black bear hunts. I plan on trying a 243 that I bought for my wife for at least deer or more if possible. 338WM is what I always use for elk and moose and would use if I ever go on a brown bear hunt. So I guess I like both.

I honestly wonder why people feel the need for Magnum cartridges for Elk and Moose. I've taken several of both with .30-06 and the little ole 30-30, .444, MLer, 7mm.08 (Elk not Moose, I aint stupid) and have never felt the need to have a magnum cartridge. Have I used them? Yep, .300 WM has taken a few for me but I really just didn't NEED the extra range it afforded. .30-06 will do the same job out to 400 yards that a .300 WM will and do it with less recoil and cost. Less recoil and cost= more range time to get really good with what you are shooting. THAT my friends is the most important thing there is. PLACEMENT. Cal, you could use just a .338-06 and have the same results out to 350 yards as that .338WM will. You don't shoot past that often if I recall correctly. And Brownies aren't bullet proof folks and they are just as easily downed as an Elk. Good bullet combined with good placement= dead Brownie. If you are carrying something for defense against a Brown and not hunting it, then a good 12 gauge with slug,00buck,slug,00buck,slug loaded up in the magazine is about as good a defense as one could have. I carry a 4 inch .500 S&W but I don't recommend that to most. I have vast amounts of practice with handguns and can hit that "bouncing tennis ball" sized target under pressure.

Magnum cartridges don't make up for poor target placement no matter what the manufacturers and "professionals" say. And they won't make up for range time to make you a long range shooter either.

The Eskimo Aleuts kill polar bears with a 22LR !

Do you mean to say that's all YOU need ?!?!

Be my guest..........................

Before switching to muzzleloaders, all I used was a 30-30 lever gun with open sights.

The fun is getting close enough so the 30-30 is a humane kill on an elk.

If someone feels a need for a magnum that's their choice, but I don't think it's necessary.

What caliber is your ML ?

Is that larger than a .30-30 or a 7MM RM ??


Here is a .50 cal that shoots out to 500 yards........................

http://www.gunwerks.com/Shooting-Systems/muzzleLoader

Muzzleloader is a round ball shooter most of the time for me. So, I like the .54 cal. Still pretty weak compared to the 30-30.

I just bought an older Marlin 30-30 to use hunting. I feel a little safer with a backup shot for bear since i'm an old fart who hunts alone, and we can't use bait, or dogs. On the ground face to face is fun stuff.

I'll use it for deer and elk too. Use a peep sight, and keep shots under 75yds.

For $5750 that thing better jump up and go hunting by it's damn self! After taxes and stuff around 6k is just stupidity looking for a home! Especially when you can get a swing lock for half that and more than likely a better rifle! 6k for a muzzleloader? Ri-dic-u-lous!!!!

I thought you liked LR hunting ??

Each to their own (better rifle ?)- right ?!1?

If a .50 cal can't kill'em you better get yourself a mechanical broad-head............ that should make for a big wound channel !!!

Those are non- magnums .................... Arn't they ??

I'm all good with that Pete ! :lmao:

I use a Marlin .35 levergun (iron sights also) with a Ruger .357 as my sidearm, if I think I might find myself in a tough spot !!!

Elevation is also a major factor when considering posts of this nature. Higher elevations can considerably improve a given calibers performance when compared to sea level. One reason answers can vary depending on where you are in the country.

Uhhhh ME? Like long range hunting? You may want to go look at the long range hunting post of RR's and read again Sher. And you couldn't pour me onto a mechanical BH. I use G5 Montechs and Slick Trick standards. Have since they came out. And my little .30-30 and .444 marlin have taken literally tons of whitetail, Elk, and Moose.

I own a magnum rifle but all but retired it. 300 H&H mag. not that I don't like it, it just got too heavy to carry and I'm getting older and prefer something lighted. use a Remington 700 30-06 now. will not get rid of the H&H as ive owned it for too many years. also got a 243 for groundhogs. its a varmit rifle with a heavy barrel.

I agree on placement being the key. I don't seem to suffer from recoil issues, as least not with my 338. But then, I remember shooting a couple hundred 12 gauge rounds at the range one day, all of them either slug or buckshot. I don't begrudge anybody using a smaller or non-magnum caliber as long as they are cleanly killing the animal. For me, I really like that 338WM with a nice 250 grain Nosler Partition bullet. It shoots well for me and does the job well too. I figure all those griz and brown bear guides in AK that prefer the 338 can't all be wrong. :s4:

On deer and antelope, I prefer my old 270 although I plan on trying the wife's 243 and maybe a 25-06 and 7mm-08 just cause. It's always fun to try new things but I don't see my gun safe ever not having a 338. :fighting0007:

Be honest Cal. You always wanted to be Clint Eastwood, and shoot big magnums.

Agreed on the .338WM, have taken a 10' brown bear, an elk, & 2 mulies w/ it (the only rifle I had on both elk hunts). It does kick a little but for the limited times I'm shooting it, what the heck. Gotta love the .270/.30-06, etc. for whitetail & similar size game. It all comes down to shot placement 1st & matching bullet construction for the game you're hunting 2nd.

I'm on my 2nd .280 Rem. 1st was a TC Prohunter and currently shooting a Browning Xbolt.
I like the .280 so much that I'm building a Savage 280 AI with a McGowen barrel.

I've had magnums but seems every moose, elk or deer I shot it was'nt required.

He had better hair and makes more money but I'm very happy where I'm at. The 12 gauge was a department gun on a range day (I was one of the rangemasters). We were there all day and nobody showed up to qualify. Seemed a shame to waste all of that time without practicing some with the shotguns and pistols. :s4:

Just curious about that statement and what you mean by it? Here in the heart of moose country all of the rounds that you listed are commonly used for moose. IMO moose are easyer to kill than elk, they are a big heavy animal but they usually lay down pretty quick and unless you go bump them before they die that's where they stay.

I recently semi-retired almost all my rifles in big game category to use the Browning A-Bolt 30-06 my brother from another mother gave me almost exclusively. I have worked up 2 loads for it that I feel will cover more than anything I'm ever going to shoot at. The 1st load is Nosler 150 gr Ballistic Tips for up to & including deer. The 2nd is for deer and up to & including elk moose, bear, etc and it's loaded with 180 gr Nosler Accubonds. I do have an exquisitely accurate bull barreled AR for use on yotes. I've been able to shoot a all time best (for ME) of 3 out of a pack with the AR. If I was going to set up a rifle for whitetail only, it of course would be built extremely light weight on a Browning A-Bolt action, chambered in 7mm08, and weigh around 6-5.5# ready to go! If I was setting up a rifle for bigger stuff only, it would be chambered in 35 Whelen.

I shoot both magnums and non magnums. I have never been engrossed in the way of thinking it takes that added ft lbs to kill an animal. I have several rifles that will take out a pepsi bottle at 600 yards with a good set of bi pods and good conditions. I'd rather spend my time worrying about accuracy and my loads, the rest is threading the needle. It don't take a magnum to kill but if it's accurate in your hands then why not.

I agree. I'd use a 7mm-08 with a tough bullet on a moose with less worries than the same round on an elk. They both will die, but at times it seems elk cling to life with much more tenacity.

It's not really the "clinging to life" but more along the lines of actual weight to carry with no oxygen being pumped through the muscles. But you 2 are indeed correct that Moose lay down much faster and easier than Elk. Unless you have a seriously rutted up Bull Moose on the warpath. Nothing short of spinal interruption puts one of them down quick. It can really be a "bad day" if you nail one with a bow and the damn things spots where you are! Sometimes people forget that a Bull Moose, while being big, dumb, and ugly as sin, is still a wild animal and can be just as deadly as a Brown Bear if provoked. I tend to go for a High shoulder shot with all big game with firearms but if Bow Hunting then I like to have a nice tree that's quickly accessible when hunting those that are bigger than me and I aint no small feller :D I've taken Elk with the 7mm.08 but in my honest opinion it really just doesn't have the availability of weight for bullets to get to the spine with my chosen shot placements. It's perfectly fine for tucking in behind the shoulder and for quartering away shots but to get through the hide, muscle, and heavy shoulder bone (yes the high shoulder of a moose is still pretty heavy) I just prefer having a bit more "meat" on my bullets than I can load up accurately for my 7mm08 barrels.

Yeah, with moose I think the proper handling of those moments immediately after the shot can be extremely important, way more important than with most other animals with the exception of brown bears. Reading the animal is a skill in itself and only comes with experience. If the moose gives me a follow up shot I'll take it, just to make sure I have one in the boiler room. But often you can pump lead into a moose all day and he wont die any faster, so once I know for sure I have one in his lungs I'll usually close the distance to where I feel in control of the situation if the moose decides to run, then just wait out of his line of sight for him to expire. Any animal dies way faster if they cant see you.

One of the first moose I shot went straight down at the shot, I walked right up to put one in his neck, at 15 yards away he got up and put his head down. I managed to shoot him in the neck while running backwards, the bullet obviously hit the neck bone because it exited out the side and blood was shooting out the exit wound in big arcs. It still took almost a minuet for him to fall over though.

One of the scaryest moments I've had while hunting was wading out to my chest in a river to get a rope around a moose that had fallen over only minuets before. He was drifting away with the current so I couldn't wait. Within arm's length of him, with my rifle back on shore, in 4' of water I figured if he got back up I'd just dive for the bottom and hope things looked better when I came back up. Nothing happened but I still get the willies thinking about that one.

Oh, and I know first hand that a .270 150 grain Coreloct bullet will punch through the thickest part of a moose shoulder and still take out the lungs every time.

Magnums and non-magnums
 

I'm with Blackelk on this, although I deleted the part about 600 yard shots as I've never shot that far at anything.:D

My first rifle was a .30-06, and for about 10 years it easily kept my freezer full of mule deer, elk, and pronghorn antelope meat. Usually 150 grain Hornady spire points for deer and antelope, and 180 grain Sierra Gamekings for elk.

Then in the late 70s, my hunting partner showed me a .30 Gibbs case (an improved .30-06) and it looked so cool that I just had to rechamber my .30-06 to it. It pushed 180 grain Partitions at just under 3000 fps which was close to .300 Win mag performance. For the next 20+ years a pile of elk, 2 shiras moose, and a few other big critters fell to that cartridge.

My gun safe has a variety of both magnum and non-magnum rifles and pistols. I enjoy shooting and hunting with all of them.

At the same time as I made the Gibbs conversion, I built a .257 Ackley Improved for deer and antelope. For the last 35+ years this has been my favorite deer and antelope rifle. I've also taken a number of bighorn sheep, a caribou, and an elk with it, all with Sierra, Hornady, or Nosler cup and core bullets.

About 15 years ago, I bought my first magnum rifle, a Remington 700 ADL in 7 mm Rem mag. I used that rifle on my first African hunt and also for a caribou and muskox hunt in the Canadian Arctic. I later "upgraded" that rifle to another 7 mm RM in a Stainless Rem 700 BDL. I've also used that rifle in Africa, and for a variety of Montana animals, including elk. I keep it as a foul weather back up rifle.

Ten years ago I booked an African cape buffalo hunt, and since many African countries require a minimum of .375 caliber for buffalo, I built what I consider the ultimate .375 caliber rifle, a .375 Rem Ultra Mag. I then used that rifle on two trips to Africa, easily taking a variety of animals from 35 pound steenboks to 1500 pound buffalo and eland. I haven't seen a North American animal that needs the power of a .375 RUM, but I haven't hunted coastal Alaskan brown bears.

For about 45 years I've admired and wanted a .300 Weatherby rifle. Six years ago I finally bought one. I custom stocked it in fancy walnut, and it has fast become my favorite rifle. I've used it for just about every major hunt that I've done in the last 5 years. I tamed it's recoil with a KDF muzzle brake and an in stock recoil reducer and I enjoy shooting it almost weekly. It's a beautiful, accurate rifle that is fun to shoot.

My gun safe has a variety of both magnum and non-magnum rifles and pistols. I enjoy shooting and hunting with all of them.

i use a 25x47 [ 222 rem mag necked up to .257 ] for 90% of all my hunting loaded with 80gr TTSX and for the last few yrs on
whitetail
mule deer
antelope
bear [ black ]
tahr
chamois
red deer
if i feel like i need more gun behind me i will break out a little 35 wildcat [ 30 rem necked up to 358 ] loaded with 180gr TTSX

both rifles are new ultra light arms model 20S single shot
and both are right at 5lbs 1 1/2 oz ready to hunt with

i hate recoil and have always shot low recoil calibers the best

I prefer the modern stainless steel, syn. stocked rifles in the WSM chamberings.

I got a nice buck with my Kimber WSM shooting my handloaded Nosler 140's.

" /> Enclosed is a picture of a young lady who borrowed my wife's 6.5x308 using the Barnes 6.5 120gr "X" bullet. This little rifle has accounted for many mature elk over the years. I believe the picture speaks for itself.Up until 1995 all the elk I shot was with a .338 Win mag. as I felt that was the only way to take elk. Then I started reading about the exploits of those in the past ( over 100 yrs ago ). using the 6.5x54MS/6.5x55. Hunters using these cal's were taking large heavy game all over the world. Even the heaviest game in Africa. Before Rem,. brought out the 260 Rem I built my wife a 6.5x308 wildcat. It's first hunting season using the Barnes 120gr "X" bullet it took a mature bull elk with one shot dropping it in it's tracks. The bullet completely penetrated both front shoulders at a lasered 197 yds. Every year since then we have taken our elk with a 6.5 & the Barnes 120Gr "X" & now the TSX bullet. Again this year as in the years past the Barnes 120gr TSX has put elk in our freezer. Never lost an animal. A friend does the same with his 7-08 & the Barnes 140gr TSX. Another friend with his 270 also takes mature elk with the Barnes 130gr TSX. No problem. My heavy mag rifles have not been shot for years. Hope this has been of some help.

Welcome to the board, Hesp. I've often considered the success old timers were having w/cartridges that were less capable than the magnums prevalent today. Marketing no doubt played a big part in the magnum perspective. On the plus side, todays better bullets give new life and potential to standard class rounds that is quite amazing.