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-   -   .40 s&w glock or .357 mag ruger v.....hiking defense against bear (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/big-game-hunting/389787-40-s-w-glock-357-mag-ruger-v-hiking-defense-against-bear.html)

Tifford 02-18-2014 09:36 AM

.40 s&w glock or .357 mag ruger v.....hiking defense against bear
 
I plan on hiking the mountains of Northern NY (Clinton County next to the Canadian boarder) to get in better shape in the spring time.

I have a block semi auto in .40 cal S and W. I also have a pair of .357 Rugers Vaquero single action revolvers.

The bears in my area mostly go 180 pounds but there are some approaching 400 pounds. I don't expect a bear encounter but I'd like to have something more than a knife to protect myself.

I don't reload so the ammo will have to be factory.

I am a very good shot with the revolver.....hitting the bar code at 40 yards on a soup can is no problem. I am not such a good shot with the 40 but I can at least hit a pie tin at 40 yards.

Which would you carry if you were me. Please keep discussion between these two fire arms b/c money is tight and I don't have the extra cash for something bigger.

wyomingtrapper 02-18-2014 11:02 AM

You are more accurate with the .357. Choose a load with penetration in mind and go with it.

Murdy 02-18-2014 11:20 AM

You are acceptably accurate with the .40 -- you get more shots and quicker follow ups -- if you happen to get charged by a bear, your accuracy may suffer a bit anyway, so I'd choose quantity over quality any day.

Tifford 02-18-2014 11:30 AM

Thanks WTrapper. I check out what the local hunting and supply store has for ammo.

Tifford 02-18-2014 11:37 AM

Murdy......so I gather from what you're saying you're telling me that the .357 hits harder and if I had only one shot that the .357 would do more damage....but.....because the Glock is semi and I can put out more lead/copper that the 40 should be carried. Did I say that right?

c-rad 02-18-2014 12:01 PM

I would go with the 40. If you do get charged by a bear chance are you won't have much time. The glock will be easier to get out of the holster and lead down range. Also with the 357 being accurate on a range or at something you are ready for is different than a charging animal. Just pick up a full metal jacket or hard cast bullet for the 40 and stay away from hollow points.

d80hunter 02-18-2014 01:45 PM

With the guns you stated, the .40 would be better. I am a .357 fanatic but would't use a single action revolver for bear defense. Double action revolvers like the GP-100 or 686 is a .357 revolver more suited to bear defense.

Murdy 02-21-2014 07:11 AM


Originally Posted by Tifford (Post 4123364)
Murdy......so I gather from what you're saying you're telling me that the .357 hits harder and if I had only one shot that the .357 would do more damage....but.....because the Glock is semi and I can put out more lead/copper that the 40 should be carried. Did I say that right?

Yep, that's what I would say. I think the two cartridges are fairly similar, slight nod to the .357, but, I also agree with d80hunter's comment on single action revolvers

buffybr 02-21-2014 12:14 PM

[QUOTE=d80hunter;4123389] I ... would't use a single action revolver for bear defense. QUOTE]

Now you tell me! Here I've been carrying my Ruger Super Blackhawk in bear country for almost 40 years.

In all those years, almost every black bear that I encountered immediately ran away, I only had one grizzly encounter. Two friends and I were camped at the end of a road near West Yellowstone, MT. We had the quarters of 2 bull elk and a bull moose hanging in the stock rack in the back of my truck. One night just before going to bed I went outside and was standing on the side of the road when a grizzly woofed at me from the top of the cutbank, 30 feet above me.

I had my .44 on my hip, so I held the flashlight on him with one hand and fired a shot over his head. He didn't react at all to the shot, and continued to click his teeth at me, so I fired another shot into a pine tree next to him. He still stood there clicking his teeth.

So I then holstered my .44, picked up a baseball size rock that I threw and hit him. He then turned and ran off into the darkness.

He was wearing a collar, and I later found out that he had been a problem bear near Cooke City that had been trapped and relocated to the mountains north of West Yellowstone.

As to the OPs question, a .357 has a little more energy than a .40 S&W, and either will kill a black bear. I killed my first black bear with a single shot from a .45 acp, and it has less energy than either a .357 or a .40 S&W. The Glock has the ability of putting out more lead faster than a SA Ruger, but only shot(s) in the vitals of the target count.

Colorado Luckydog 02-23-2014 01:29 PM

I'd carry the 40, not for bears but for humans. For bears I would be a little noisey and carry a can of bear spray.

jls456 02-23-2014 04:58 PM


Originally Posted by Colorado Luckydog (Post 4124288)
I'd carry the 40, not for bears but for humans. For bears I would be a little noisey and carry a can of bear spray.

X2. I agree.

Sheridan 02-23-2014 08:46 PM

If there was a need to use one, knowing the danger; I'd want the Glock vs a single action revolver.

Your accuracy is going to suffer due to the circumstances anyway.


I quick follow-up shot (or 2) may be necessary !

Tifford 03-02-2014 11:51 PM

Thanks guys for the advice.

Nomercy448 03-03-2014 07:31 AM

We're talking New York...
 
If I were in your shoes, choosing between a Ruger Vaquero .357mag and a Glock .40 S&W for "bear defense"...

First choice = Sell them and get a double action .44mag
Second choice = Carry a shotgun that I hope you already own
Third choice = Carry the Glock .40 S&W

Reasoning, see below...

Three realities:

1) We're talking New York, so we're talking Black Bears, not "great bears". The likelihood of needing a weapon for black bear defense is incredibly low. You're more likely to unnecessarily kill a NY Bruin out of panic than to actually have needed your weapon. Also means you're looking at smaller bears, which is the only reason I'd remotely entertain a .40S&W or .357mag as a bear defense weapon. A blank-firing starter pistol would be 99.99% as effective as a .500 S&W for detering a black bear charge.

2) For that less than 1% chance you find yourself needing a lethal solution for a black bear rush, then a single action revolver isn't a proper defensive weapon. There are plenty of guys that carry them (I carried a Ruger Super Blackhawk .44mag in bear country on my first several visists even southern AK until I got something proper), but there are also plenty of guys that have never had to use their bear defense weapon (see item 1).

3) Neither the .40 or the .357mag would be on my list for bear defense rounds. Yes, either will kill a bear, but no, in my expereince with both on game, including 250lb+ hogs, they aren't something I'd carry if I needed a guaranteed stopper. Considering the eventuality that a bear defense handgun might be employed in one hand while the other hand is in the gullet of a bear, I prefer a bit more insurance.

So carry what you will for now. The Glock won't quite have the penetrating power of the .357, but the higher capacity, faster reloads, and foolproof operation (point and click) would be my choice of the two.

Tifford 03-04-2014 08:37 PM

I agree with some of what you said nomercy but at the moment I am going through a divorce, have two car payments and I am paying $662 per month for good (this aint obama care) health insurance. Once the divorce is final I will be down to 90 a month for health...one car payment...and no child support due to no kids. When that happens I will get a Ruger that shoots the .45LC and the .454 Casull. Pratice with the 45 and go hiking with the 454. But until that happens, I will make due with what I have. I don't think anyone would argue that either a 40 or a 357 is better than nothing at all.

Yes I agree with you that a black bear stalking me with the intention of doing harm to me is slim but it is still greater than 0. Some of the animals in the Northern part of NY get big. We have deer that weigh in at close to 300 pounds. Most of our bears are small and will never compete with the coastal AK bruins but any bear from 180 to 400 will put a serious hurting on the hiker who doesn't have an equalizer.

Nomercy448 03-04-2014 09:38 PM

You have a lot going on, which is why I offered 3 different options. Best case, "hope you own a shotgun" case, and "make do for now" case. Just keep yourself motivated to get something a little more punchy once all that "great fun stuff" finally closes out.


Originally Posted by Tifford (Post 4126460)
I will get a Ruger that shoots the .45LC and the .454 Casull. Pratice with the 45 and go hiking with the 454.

I'd encourage you to redefine this - be sure you practice a lot with whatever round with which you'll be defending your life. High volume with the 45 is all well and good, but have enough 454 through it to know it can run fast for you.

Honestly, in my experience with them, I'd be hard pressed to recommend a 454 for Bruin defense. Just too much power for what you really need, even with the heft of the Ruger Alaskans.

A Ruger Alaskan in .44mag, or even better, a Ruger Redhawk 4" or 5.5" in .44mag would be a better choice for bruin defense, in my opinion. The recoil from my standard Super Redhawk 7.5" is "manageable" with the .454, but the Alaskan is a different animal. Firing my Alaskan 454 beside my Alaskan 44mag is like night and day, throw one handed "less than ideal shooting position" firing, and it's a whole lot to handle.

Or, alternatively, just focus on heavy 45colt loads (or superlight 454 loads). 1,000ft.lbs. out of the 44mag or heavy .45colt is no joke. But 1,800ft.lbs. out of the Cassull in a snubby is a "necessary evil" only dictated by something a lot bigger than 400lb bruins. A few cylinders worth and I even find myself occasionally reconsidering 45's over 454's for ANY defensive purpose.

Those great big cylinders are pretty easy on the eyes though ;)


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