.40 s&w glock or .357 mag ruger v.....hiking defense against bear
02-23-2014, 07:46 PM
#12
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location:
Posts: 5,130
If there was a need to use one, knowing the danger; I'd want the Glock vs a single action revolver.
Your accuracy is going to suffer due to the circumstances anyway.
I quick follow-up shot (or 2) may be necessary !
Your accuracy is going to suffer due to the circumstances anyway.
I quick follow-up shot (or 2) may be necessary !
03-03-2014, 06:31 AM
#14
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,902
We're talking New York...
If I were in your shoes, choosing between a Ruger Vaquero .357mag and a Glock .40 S&W for "bear defense"...
First choice = Sell them and get a double action .44mag
Second choice = Carry a shotgun that I hope you already own
Third choice = Carry the Glock .40 S&W
Reasoning, see below...
Three realities:
1) We're talking New York, so we're talking Black Bears, not "great bears". The likelihood of needing a weapon for black bear defense is incredibly low. You're more likely to unnecessarily kill a NY Bruin out of panic than to actually have needed your weapon. Also means you're looking at smaller bears, which is the only reason I'd remotely entertain a .40S&W or .357mag as a bear defense weapon. A blank-firing starter pistol would be 99.99% as effective as a .500 S&W for detering a black bear charge.
2) For that less than 1% chance you find yourself needing a lethal solution for a black bear rush, then a single action revolver isn't a proper defensive weapon. There are plenty of guys that carry them (I carried a Ruger Super Blackhawk .44mag in bear country on my first several visists even southern AK until I got something proper), but there are also plenty of guys that have never had to use their bear defense weapon (see item 1).
3) Neither the .40 or the .357mag would be on my list for bear defense rounds. Yes, either will kill a bear, but no, in my expereince with both on game, including 250lb+ hogs, they aren't something I'd carry if I needed a guaranteed stopper. Considering the eventuality that a bear defense handgun might be employed in one hand while the other hand is in the gullet of a bear, I prefer a bit more insurance.
So carry what you will for now. The Glock won't quite have the penetrating power of the .357, but the higher capacity, faster reloads, and foolproof operation (point and click) would be my choice of the two.
First choice = Sell them and get a double action .44mag
Second choice = Carry a shotgun that I hope you already own
Third choice = Carry the Glock .40 S&W
Reasoning, see below...
Three realities:
1) We're talking New York, so we're talking Black Bears, not "great bears". The likelihood of needing a weapon for black bear defense is incredibly low. You're more likely to unnecessarily kill a NY Bruin out of panic than to actually have needed your weapon. Also means you're looking at smaller bears, which is the only reason I'd remotely entertain a .40S&W or .357mag as a bear defense weapon. A blank-firing starter pistol would be 99.99% as effective as a .500 S&W for detering a black bear charge.
2) For that less than 1% chance you find yourself needing a lethal solution for a black bear rush, then a single action revolver isn't a proper defensive weapon. There are plenty of guys that carry them (I carried a Ruger Super Blackhawk .44mag in bear country on my first several visists even southern AK until I got something proper), but there are also plenty of guys that have never had to use their bear defense weapon (see item 1).
3) Neither the .40 or the .357mag would be on my list for bear defense rounds. Yes, either will kill a bear, but no, in my expereince with both on game, including 250lb+ hogs, they aren't something I'd carry if I needed a guaranteed stopper. Considering the eventuality that a bear defense handgun might be employed in one hand while the other hand is in the gullet of a bear, I prefer a bit more insurance.
So carry what you will for now. The Glock won't quite have the penetrating power of the .357, but the higher capacity, faster reloads, and foolproof operation (point and click) would be my choice of the two.
03-04-2014, 07:37 PM
#15
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: henderson ny USA
Posts: 23
I agree with some of what you said nomercy but at the moment I am going through a divorce, have two car payments and I am paying $662 per month for good (this aint obama care) health insurance. Once the divorce is final I will be down to 90 a month for health...one car payment...and no child support due to no kids. When that happens I will get a Ruger that shoots the .45LC and the .454 Casull. Pratice with the 45 and go hiking with the 454. But until that happens, I will make due with what I have. I don't think anyone would argue that either a 40 or a 357 is better than nothing at all.
Yes I agree with you that a black bear stalking me with the intention of doing harm to me is slim but it is still greater than 0. Some of the animals in the Northern part of NY get big. We have deer that weigh in at close to 300 pounds. Most of our bears are small and will never compete with the coastal AK bruins but any bear from 180 to 400 will put a serious hurting on the hiker who doesn't have an equalizer.
Yes I agree with you that a black bear stalking me with the intention of doing harm to me is slim but it is still greater than 0. Some of the animals in the Northern part of NY get big. We have deer that weigh in at close to 300 pounds. Most of our bears are small and will never compete with the coastal AK bruins but any bear from 180 to 400 will put a serious hurting on the hiker who doesn't have an equalizer.
03-04-2014, 08:38 PM
#16
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,902
You have a lot going on, which is why I offered 3 different options. Best case, "hope you own a shotgun" case, and "make do for now" case. Just keep yourself motivated to get something a little more punchy once all that "great fun stuff" finally closes out.
I'd encourage you to redefine this - be sure you practice a lot with whatever round with which you'll be defending your life. High volume with the 45 is all well and good, but have enough 454 through it to know it can run fast for you.
Honestly, in my experience with them, I'd be hard pressed to recommend a 454 for Bruin defense. Just too much power for what you really need, even with the heft of the Ruger Alaskans.
A Ruger Alaskan in .44mag, or even better, a Ruger Redhawk 4" or 5.5" in .44mag would be a better choice for bruin defense, in my opinion. The recoil from my standard Super Redhawk 7.5" is "manageable" with the .454, but the Alaskan is a different animal. Firing my Alaskan 454 beside my Alaskan 44mag is like night and day, throw one handed "less than ideal shooting position" firing, and it's a whole lot to handle.
Or, alternatively, just focus on heavy 45colt loads (or superlight 454 loads). 1,000ft.lbs. out of the 44mag or heavy .45colt is no joke. But 1,800ft.lbs. out of the Cassull in a snubby is a "necessary evil" only dictated by something a lot bigger than 400lb bruins. A few cylinders worth and I even find myself occasionally reconsidering 45's over 454's for ANY defensive purpose.
Those great big cylinders are pretty easy on the eyes though
Honestly, in my experience with them, I'd be hard pressed to recommend a 454 for Bruin defense. Just too much power for what you really need, even with the heft of the Ruger Alaskans.
A Ruger Alaskan in .44mag, or even better, a Ruger Redhawk 4" or 5.5" in .44mag would be a better choice for bruin defense, in my opinion. The recoil from my standard Super Redhawk 7.5" is "manageable" with the .454, but the Alaskan is a different animal. Firing my Alaskan 454 beside my Alaskan 44mag is like night and day, throw one handed "less than ideal shooting position" firing, and it's a whole lot to handle.
Or, alternatively, just focus on heavy 45colt loads (or superlight 454 loads). 1,000ft.lbs. out of the 44mag or heavy .45colt is no joke. But 1,800ft.lbs. out of the Cassull in a snubby is a "necessary evil" only dictated by something a lot bigger than 400lb bruins. A few cylinders worth and I even find myself occasionally reconsidering 45's over 454's for ANY defensive purpose.
Those great big cylinders are pretty easy on the eyes though
