Originally Posted by finnbear

BULLcough cough......BULLcough!!!!!!!! if what U say is true the animalwas dead on it's feet just waitng to topple over!!!
You obviously don't know what the heck you are talking about, there just ain't that much difference between the 30.06 an the 45.70 .......really ?? REALLY thats yer opinion???? go do yer home work and come back and tell us the difference!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by finnbear

30.06
muzzzle 100 yds 200 yds
180 Gr. Speer Grand Slam2800 / 3133+1.88 / 2575 / 2649+0.00 / 2361 / 2228-8.09 / 2161 / 1866-23.66 / 1973 / 1555

45.70
405 Gr. JFP1900 / 3206+6.28 / 1581 / 2218+0.00 / 1316 / 1537-26.53 / 1127 / 1128-79.95 / 1012 / 909-165.43 / 932 / 771
both loads are conley precision
Bullet energy is bullet energy

Originally Posted by streetglideok

That would be entirely wrong. Bullet energy is not bullet energy, unless you are comparing apples to oranges. For starters, your table is a mess to try and compare. Next, you are talking about a 0.308" bullet vs a 0.458" bullet. One is a spitzer, one is a blunt nosed bullet. One relies on sheer bullet diameter, and a broad metplat, while the other relies heavily on velocity, expansion, and hydroshock. One is proven to be reliable at lower velocities and with tough, thick skinned game that tends to bite back. The other is known to work well in thin skinned game that isn't so dangerous. Take a guess what hunters use on the dark continent? You look at the ballistics of a 300RUM, and a 458winmag. Now go to africa, and find someone silly enough to let you use the 300RUM illegally on some of the Hippos, etc, vs the 458winmag. Let me know the outcome. Yeah, thats what I thought

Originally Posted by Blackelk

The 30-06 has V shaped energy dispersion type of impact. The 45-70 has a U shaped energy dispersion type of impact. Although the 30-06 maybe carrying more ft lbs of energy the 45-70 will have more of an instant shock to the animal delivering more energy on impact. As the 30-06 will probably get more penetration. These are big animals and they can take a lot of system shock without immediately going down. Either way 30-06 or 45-70 will kill it shooting through the vitals. I've knocked more animals down with slow big bore handguns and muzzle loaders than I have with modern high velocity rifles. It's a whole other type of impact and system shock. Really large game can take a few rounds and be dead on their feet before giving it up. Would I take say a 30-06 and go buffalo hunting? Yes they are like shooting cattle in a pen you can wait for a decent shot.

Originally Posted by streetglideok

I'm kind of shocked, do people still only rely on bullet energy to determine effectiveness. There is some truth to energy, however, bullet design, caliber, speed, etc all have a huge part, if not larger part then shear energy. This is well documented, and a simple search on here, or online will divulge this, via very reliable sources.

Originally Posted by the blur

When we took our hunters ed class, the instructor said his son used a .243; 3 or 4 shots, and eventually the bison fell over. Never ran. Just stood there.

Originally Posted by streetglideok

The bison probably sat there and laughed, at this annoying bee stinging him...

Originally Posted by finnbear

dead bison is dead!!!!!