Only 25% of elk hunters take elk
 

I have read, in several sources, that only 25% of elk hunters who have licenses succeed in shooting an elk. Why is the success rate so low?

I have also heard that the people who DO take elk, have a much higher success rate, year-to-year, than the average hunter. Said another way, there is a first group of hunters that have a significantly higher than 25% success rate -- maybe 85% success rate -- and there is a second group of hunters that have a lower success rate than 25 -- maybe 15%. What is the difference between these two groups of hunters? Is it valid to put them into two separate groups or is it simply a continuum of experience?

Someone I know says that many people after the first day will hunt pretty close to the road. Maybe they are out of shape and just plain wore themselves out climbing the hills on opening day. Maybe they just aren't that passionate about hunting and are out for the general experience -- being in the mountains, being in camp with others away from the cares of their ordinary lives.

What are your thoughts? Why the low success rate? Why do some hunters regularly fare better than other hunters? Is it experience? Is it work ethic/physical conditioning? Is it level of passion? Is it a different reason for being out in the elk fields?

Another possible reason for the low success rate is maybe a lot of hunters are only looking for a bull, and bulls may be more difficult to come by than cows. Along the same lines, maybe hunters are looking for bulls with large racks and are passing on lesser opportunities.

I forget what the saying I've heard is, but something like 10% of the elk hunters take 90% of the elk year to year...

Personally my success rate is quite low, I think I'm running about 25% myself...but on almost every hunt I've ever been on I could have taken an animal.

I suspect this quote is a bit too simplified, ie there are hunters who take the 1st legal animal they see and probably tend to be more successful than others.

Actually I am surprised its that high. I believe the statewide average here in CO is more like 17%.

my opinions based on nothing more than my opinion

its much harder than the average hunter realizes or remembers year to year

abundance of private land for refuge

unwillingness of hunters to walk great distances

poor scouting and intell

lack of planning

elk are smart beasts and they figure out that whole hunting thing pretty fast

I hunt and fish the mountains most all of the year, it gives me a huge advantage knowing where to go, where to stay and when to be there.

My personal average is around 75%. As far as shooting the first legal beast, that would be determined by the license I had. In our little circle of the world a cow elk is a cow elk. Bulls are a different deal.


I will say this about that. I can see elk everyday in just a short drive from where I'm sitting now. Come hunting season those same elk will be near impossible to find.

Another thought I was thinking about was the amount of work it takes once one is down. People hear these stories and they stear clear of many areas elk enjoy/goto for seclusion. Since I moved back to Wyoming I am 100% that is only two years but I have also taken my Wife, my brother and brother in law and got them an elk after mine was down. All of them had to be quartered and packed out. I cut all of them up and helped haul them all out. I enjoy it and the work is worth it to me. I suspect many people do not enjoy this and could be a reason.

I see it with the people I hunt with. Most of them do not like following me but I think they finally have noticed that you have to get out there and go after it if you want to be successful. I don't really care about the size of bulls I shoot either. I archery hunt and usually if a shot is presented I take it. I love eating elk and the cows and younger bulls eat better. I am always looking for that monster bull but not set on it. Last year I shot a smaller 5 x 4 and my wife shot one of the three 6 x 6 elk that came into our position. The other two were cows. I enjoyed every part of all that work we had last year.

Elk hunting is my passion. I work hard at it throughout the year. I know where the elk are long before the season starts. I stay in altitude shape all year long. My list could go on, but the bottom line is I put all the odds in my favor. I hunt alone so I can put 100% focus on what I need to do.

If I had to go to another state to hunt elk. My percentage would be way down.

As it is. I get an elk every year.

btw..I hunt the muzzleloader season only. That weeds out the wannabees around me.

This is another good point. Maybe people are not so much interested in the meat, so they hold out for a bigger bull. Maybe they just don't get very far from the road because they don't know how to get the meat out farther back in. My hunting partner had his elk packed out a couple of years ago due to weather complications, and it cost $350. Some people may not want to go back in too far to fetch their elk and don't want to shell out $300+ to have it packed out.

I love the entire experience, and to me there is no significant difference between taking a cow or a bull. I do prefer to go during either sex first rifle season in Colorado, because the hunting is better -- the elk are not yet stirred up and hiding out in the dark timber. Also, I like hunting near treeline, and the elk are still up high, on public land in the first rifle season. Later seasons? Maybe not. I took a 4x3 bull in 2009. This year I will probably take a cow. I'm a non-resident.

I think you guys have pretty much hit the nail on the head.
Elevation, difficulty of terrain, location of animals, difficulty of getting dead animal out of the terrain. It all adds up to a difficult hunt compared to your average whitetail hunt.
I read somewhere that 90% of the hunters dont make it a mile away from the road, and that 90% of the elk occupy only 10% of the woods.......so if your in the 90% of hunters you are probably only able to see/hunt somewhere around 10% of the elk population. Obviously there is a little give and take there, but hopefully you get my point.

All in all, come September I'm going to be about 8 miles in the backcountry bowhunting some elk!

If you see an old guy sneaking along with a muzzleloader. Say hi.

If i'm any good. I'll see you first. :p

I am relatively new to elk hunting. Since I have been hunting Colorado (2006) I am 3 out of 5 or 60%. I think the main reason for my success is two fold. First I hunt an area that has a fair amount of elk. Second, and most importantly, I hunt the same area every year so I am very familiar with it. I know the places elk like when it's warm, when it's snowing, when it's windy, etc. By sticking to one area you become a better hunter and know how to react to the elk.

Exactly Rob. That's the reason for my success too.

I can even sleep in my bed every night, because my area is only 25 minutes away.

My rational of thinking for the people who are not successful at punching they're elk tags on a yearly basis, there hunting like how you would go about hunting for deer not realizing that elk hunting is not deer hunting in many reguards. If the unsuccessful hunters who generally do not punch there elk tag year to year figures that statement out, will greatly up there odds of killing elk instead of hunting elk every year.

must be nice muley, I have a 5 hour drive to where I hunt. What projectiles are you using? I have some no excuses conicals that don't like to be shot out of my Knight. I think I need something about .002 larger in diameter. I had bought them to hunt elk with but never have got around to trying another bullet.

I'm using the 300gr Thor with 110 gr of BH 209. Good elk load.

I've hunted elk for 25 years been guiding hunters for 22 of those years. As a guide you don't get to pick the choice seasons. Go after the bulls in the prime time. I almost don't know what that would be like to get to pick my one season every year. I didn't kill a bull elk myself until I was 19 years old. That was right at the time when it went from spikes to 4 points or better. Finding an elk with a rack was hard to do. I believe back in 85-86 was the time frame. Since then I've almost went 100% on taking a bull elk every year. I'm on the verge of taking 20 bull elk myself and with clients that number of elk taken is a lot higher elk taken but lower on the ratio of success.

Hunting for one's self is a lot different than adding in extra person or a buddy you are dragging along behind you. For one you want to be considerate and make sure they are safe, comfortable and having a great time. But when there's distance to cover between you and the elk, you have to eat that ground up in a very short time. Elk hunting can be enduring. Twice hunting for myself and once with my brother I've actually ran over 500 yards to get in a position to shoot elk on the move. I can't do that to a client and I sure would feel bad doing it to a buddy. But if you want to go 100% year to year on taking a bull elk you have to be ready to do whatever it takes to get it done. Try it a few times just for fun, run a couple hundred yards then calm yourself for a shot before the elk get out of the area. Not really a fair point but I grew up in the mountains and I guess i'm adjusted.
But it's not about running one into the dirt that was the extreme of being successful. You have to hone those stalking skills. Know how to use the terrain in open country to get close and make that shot even with a bow. Last year archery season a father/son duo and myself stalked on a herd above timberline and we got in position for a shot. It was a long shot 50+ yards but I think that was one of the most rewarding stalks on elk I've ever did. Stalking elk with multiple people where the only cover is the shape of the terrain and the grass not even a boulder to hide behind. Now that's fun. If he wanted to have killed a cow they were only 19 yards from us. We missed the bull but who cares it was the experience that made the day.

There are so many things a person could write about how to help a new person in the elk world but there is a few core things that will make a difference.

Shooting- This is the biggest make it or break it in the elk world. 450 yards for a rifle/ 150yards for a muzzle loader/ 50 yards for a bow. Standing, Kneeling, Sitting, Prone. You need to be able to make any of those shots to increase your chances of getting an elk. I know you just think I went stupid. But I can do it and a few people around me and a few that I've guided can do it. It's not a matter of can't do it, it is a matter of practice. Don't do what so many people do and see an elk and go Oh my god and elk and get flustered and all their shooting capability's go right out the window. It's sad because they don't get the elk. I could write a book solely on first hand witnessing people missing elk. Some of them big ole bulls I sure with that would of been my turn and my season.

Being in shape is number two, if you can't get there you can't get the shot. It's that plain and simple. I've hiked 65 year old men plus patiently up rough nasty terrain miles to get a shot on a bull that I knew the elk had moved into that area. If a 60+ person can do it you better be able to do it too. I used to think take the young man get to the elk. I'll take the older gentleman and be packing out an elk at the end of the day.

Attitude- I can't count the number of elk taken on the last hour of the last day with friends and clients. Keep your head in the game. Stay positive. So many times I've seen guys get poor attitudes because a hunt isn't going perfect. If you start giving me attitude about finding elk how do you think you next day of hunting is going to be? My most important thing is to get someone an elk. That's my lively hood. That's my passion.
People just don't understand that even outfitters get skunked. If elk hunting was easy then I'd probably have a different number one game animal on my favorite list. If your attitude sucks I can imagine your hunt is going to be miserable. I hunt myself by myself. I want to go where I want to go. If your like me don't bother hiring an outfitter, it will drive you nuts being led around all day.

What's the one consistent tip I can give you that always works for me. If your not looking into the north facing timber for elk your not looking at the right area's. Elk have a massive hide full of hair and even on the coldest of cold days you'll find them bedding on that north face out of the sun. This is not 100% but it's as close to right for knowing where the elk are. And just because an area looks small rugged and nasty doesn't mean there's not quite a few elk held up in it. And turn your scope down when you walk into it. Three to five steps and you better be looking or glassing. Elk move around in the timber during the day so sitting and taking long breaks is a wonderful idea.

Hunt the same mountain side or canyon everyday and you just increased your odds of seeing an elk 10 times. I move around a lot but I've got 20 some years of learning my area. I know where the elk tend to eat, sleep, and play games. If you killed a bull there the year before chances are your going to do it again. Maybe not in the same scenario but in the same area.

Good luck to you and keep a positive attitude.

As Muley stated, you should try the Thors: http://thorbullets.com/

He doesn't list them, but he now has 300 gr ballistic tip bullets. You just shoot him an email to order and he will send you the bullets with an invoice that you then send in to him (doesn't take credit)

Also, you should try some 350 gr Hornaday FPBs. They shoot well in my knight and I have taken two elk with them.

If you want to stay with big lead projectiles, you can order whatever size you want from Bullshop: http://bullshop.gunloads.com/

Thanks for the information. That is how I got the no excuses conicals. I think I will try the Thors and see how it goes. Just a quick question, which diameter are you shooting in your Knight. I am thinking the 503s would be the best. I can't remember what the NEX were now.

Must be nice, I have to drive 2,000 miles!

As usual, good points Blackelk.

I thought I would give an example of "bad attitude" from my own experience, from my first elk hunt in 2006. This is an example of what not to do. I was hunting, climbing a ridge, looking for sign of elk. I wasn't really seeing anything, but I was working at it to the limited skills and knowledge I possessed at the time. I persuaded myself to quit for the day about 30 minutes before the end of legal shooting light. Here were the reasons -- bad reasons -- I told to myself that persuaded me to quit early. (1) if I got an elk at that time, then I would be out in the dark, field dresssing my elk, and that would be a little unpleasant. (2) I would have to find my way back to my truck in the dark and that might be difficult. (3) Hey, what are the chances I'm going to see an elk now? not very good. (4) It was Monday and if I left early, I could get back to town and watch Monday Night Football. I could be sitting in a warm restaurant, with tastey food and a cold beer in front of me, comfortable hotel bed 5 minutes away.

#1: So what? Isn't that what I'm there for? Is it a whole lot more unpleasant field dressing an elk in the dark than in the light? It is kind of unpleasant anyway it goes. Also, I had field dressed deer in the dark -- not that big of a deal. I had a head lamp, so there wasn't going to be any special difficulty with doing that.

#2: Nonsense. I was going up a ridge while hunting. If I went down the ridge, I would have to intersect the road my truck was parked on. Thus, I couldn't get lost. Additionally, I had a GPS device which could provide assistance getting back to my truck.

#3: Just because you haven't seen an elk up to the present doesn't mean you won't find one in the next 10 seconds. My experience hunting is that . . . there are no hunted animals, and then suddenly here they are! Perhaps in the next 10 minutes I would have found an open meadows that was a good place to come back in the morning to hunt. Perhaps the meadows would have at that time had elk in them.

#4: You have to be willing to forgo the comforts of civilization -- a warm room with a comfy chair, TV with Monday Night Football on -- to hunt most animals.


I think this is a good example of bad attitude, because all these 4 issues were examples of the wrong kind of thoughts to have if you want to hunt elk (or many other animals as well).

This was my first elk hunt. It happened to be a DIY elk hunt. And further, I was hunting by myself without a partner. I hope I will not make these kind of attitude errors in the future. I made a lot of errors on that first hunt. But I learned from that and identified some of the things that I needed to correct for the next trip.

One comment I will make is that I remember thinking that elk hunting was kind of unaccessible to me. I thought there were too many things I didn't know. I decided, notwithstanding, that I was going to go out and do it not withstanding. I think that was the right decision. In some sense I couldn't learn some stuff -- like this attitude thing -- without going out and falling down. I made a lot of mistakes, but I learned from most of those mistakes.

Me too if I hunted in North Carolina. :D

Alsatian...............I'm curious. Did you hunt from before sunlight to what you describe in your post?


I ask, because I never hunt late in the day. I'm on the mountain when most are still snoring. Elk are active early and late in the day. I don't choose to hunt late. I'd rather give 150% to hunting early. It's never failed me, and it gives me most of the day to dress the elk and get it out.

I enjoy hiking into the mountain in the early morning darkness. I'm fresh and alert. I'm full of hope for the hunt. I'm alive.

Hauling hundreds of pounds of meat in that same darkness when i'm dog tired has no appeal to me. I refuse to do it.

Hunt smart.

Just my .02

Muley Hunter: Maybe you have a high success rate for elk hunting, and this whole thread is sort of about what makes the difference -- how can you BE one of the hunters with a high success rate -- so whatever works for you. There are a lot of differences among hunters. One of my differences is I'm happy taking a cow.

I've gone elk hunting twice -- once in 2006 and again in 2009. In 2009, I was in place early on opening morning, well before legal shooting light (1/2 hour before sun-up). I took my smallish 3x4 bull elk about 9 AM: hunt over. Thus, on the 2009 hunt there wasn't any evening hunt. In 2006, my hours varied. I tried to get out and in position before shooting light -- I accomplished this twice -- but because I was kind of fumbling I didn't always make this work out. For example, when I had identified a place I wanted to be at first light, then I would get there. On several days, however, I didn't know where I wanted to go so I waited until light so I could see where I was going. Again, this was more of a learning experience than a skilled, informed hunting trip.

Again, everyone can do what they like. Speaking for myself, I don't think I would have any reluctance to take an elk 29 minutes after sun-down. I think I could probably safely field dress the elk and let it lie over night (I hunt the first rifle season very near treeline -- earlier season or lower elevation there may be more spoilage risks). I think a lot of people do that. Having said that, in practice what I would more likely do is field dress, skin, cut into big chunks, put into game bags, and leave most of the meat at the kill site, and return to camp to sleep -- leaving the heavy packing until the next day. This would likely take me about 3 hours. Maybe it would take less. This figure is based on my first experience doing this -- there is a fair chance I would be more skilled and efficient the second time around. I would prefer to get the meat out of the skin and cut up so that I could have more confidence that the meat wasn't going to spoil -- but I suspect that in most actual cases no harm would come leaving the animal to skin and cut up until the next day. It may depend on how far you are from your camp. I'm sure I would be very tired at the end of that kind of a day . . . but the knowledge that I had taken my elk and had it well cared for would sustain me.

I just asked a question and told how I do it.

Trying to help.:confused0024:

Alsatian,

Those are some pretty good excuses. I have done all of them in the past as well except for maybe the Mondy night football. Although I do remember watching one while deer hunting on my fathers satelite in the motor home. :)

I am usually in place 1/2 hour before light 1 hour before sunup in the mornings. I hunt hard until about 11:30 to 12:00. Then we head back down the mountain for lunch and a nice nap. 2 - 3:00 we are up the mountain or different locations depending on what we are seeing. I am the last one back to the ride after dark.

In fact last year I had them drop me off and told them don't wait for me. I was heading down the mountain to the bottom road. I shot my elk just before sunset. I turned the GPS on and was 1.3 miles from the road. Action plan formed and started in about 30 seconds. Field dressed the elk started cutting a quarter off to haul out with me. Started snowing so I made the decision to leave the rest until the next mornig. Proped it up as best I could to let it breath from the ground and hiked out in the dark with my headlamp with a quarter on my back. Next morning I took three others with me and we had the rest out in one trip by 11:00 am.

I learned that I have to be out there and willing to go places most do not want to.

No problem. Sorry if my post suggested anything unintended. I was just trying to answer fully. Your comment was helpful. Thanks.

I think what Muley Hunter was saying is that elk tend to be in steep country, sometime deep dark canyons. This terrain is nasty enough in day light, but can be down right dangerous at night. Throw a little snow or rain on it and it can be slippery.

I pack out our elk with frame packs. We do the Gutless method which works well. Climbing out of a snow covered canyon in the dark with a 70lb hind quarter can be difficult at best.

Just be careful and be smart. Take your time, the elk isn't going anywhere ;^)

Plus, I hunt alone and i'm 68. I also use the gutless method, but go beyond that and debone the meat to make it lighter. I need a lot of daylight to do that.

I usually don't have to go past the 3rd day before I have my morning elk.

Most of my hunting is done in the months before the season opens. Pulling the trigger is the easy part.

I've had 4 elk tags in the last 3 years and shot 3 bulls. 2 out of 3 on a Wyoming general tag.

2008 Wyoming Bull - shot him at 8:30 opening morning.


2009. Struck out on my Wyoming general tag. Had a chance at a nice bull opening morning, but my friends son shot at him before I thought he should have and missed him.

2010 Wyoming Bull. Shot him at 9:00 on opening morning.


2010 New Mexico Bull. Shot him at 10:00 second morning.


I've hunted several more days trying to help my friends get their tag filled as well.

In 2008 we ended up filling 2 out of 3 tags. In 2009 we went 0 for 3. In 2010 we went 2 for 2 on Wyoming general tags and I went 1 for 1 on my New Mexico tag.

That puts my group at 5 out of 9 over the last 3 years for a 55.6% success rate.

We typically try to be out there where we want to be at least 1 hour before sunrise. Sometimes that means leaving camp at 3:30 in the morning. On most of our successful hunts being in the right place before the sun comes up has been critical. 4 out of the 5 elk taken by our group were taken by 10:00 am.

You can never stress enough that to be successful you need to be where the elk are. I've been lots of places that look like there should be elk there, but if they aren't there you are just wasting your time. They might have been there a few weeks ago and they might come back in a few weeks, but you need to be where they are now.

It never hurts to draw a good tag either! I passed on several bulls I would have shot with my Wyoming general tag on my New Mexico hunt before shooting that one on the 2nd day. I probably could have shot an even bigger bull, but I couldn't pass on that one.

Elk hunting is for sure an addiction!

P.S. On our Wyoming hunt last year we had to camp in a different spot than we normally do because a group of 6 other hunters got our spot. They had horses and their camp looked like a full blown outfitter camp. They were experienced hunters from in state, but had never hunted that specific area before. We killed 2 elk within 3 miles of their camp in the 4 days we were there and they didn't even see an elk during that time. They covered a ton of ground on their horses and worked hard, but they weren't familiar with the area and it showed. Knowing the area you are hunting is critical.

On the other extreme the spot I hunted in New Mexico I only scouted 1 day before the season and saw a couple dozen elk each day of the hunt. On my 2 successful Wyoming hunts the only elk I saw were the ones I shot. That helps show the difference between a general hunt area and a limited entry area.

Yes, I get that now. I know what you mean. Just packing my first quarter (and not a full quarter, just the thigh, in essence, as I separated at the ball joint of the hip and took the thigh off in one piece) down the hill to a convenient nearby trail I slipped on some snow and nearly blew out one of my knees. I started going down with a switch-back path after that incident! And this was in full daylight and rested!

PHWOAR, I gotta get me one of those for my wall:jaw:

It's gotta be so awesome to bring one of them biggins down.

I think one of the keys to taking an elk is hunting the same area and knowing your area. I go camping/fishing/scouting/hiking in my main area 2-5 times each summer. My secondary area I live in and get to scout/drive it just about every day.

I have a perfect story for this post. This last season was my wife's first elk hunt in Arizona. We hunted an area which I have been hunting for years and know better than I know the inside of my house. We scouted many times in my little secret spot and I was very pleased with what I saw, her on the otherhand was skeptical on what she was seeing. Opening day she decided that she wanted to hunt more in the pine area, I argued to no avail that there are too many hunters and not enough elk in those areas. However we spent the whole first day bumping into dozens of other hunters close to the road, and several pickups all with hunters cruising the nice smooth forest roads. We didn't see one elk. The next day we went back to my secret area, and we saw both of the herds in the area, the 150 head herd, and the herd with 75 head in it. We both filled our tags off of these herds. She also learned the importance of hunting the back country areas.

I have to agree to this statement .......I hunt the same area each and every year, for both deer and elk..........it's about 2 sq.miles public land, all sage brush fairly flat about 3/4,000 ft level,,, have never been more that maybe 3/4 of a mile from a road can normally see camp,,,but we are in the area all the time, whether its to camp, fish or maybe target practice!!! we always see animals of one type or another!!! LOL!!!
I have taken 14 elk out of this area....because I know where the elk are and where they gonna go if they get pushed, and how to get there before them or at least head them off!!!!

Wow! That's easy hunting. I start at 9000ft and go up from there, and nothing is flat.

I don't think anywhere in Colorado is that low. Maybe by the Kansas border. Maybe.

Lucky you.

Likewise...one area we hunt is from 8500 to 10,500 and the other is 9000 to 11,500 and above. The valley down near town is at 7200 and that is the lowest area within several hours drive.

An area like you described in Colorado would have over 50 hunters trying to hunt it.You would definitly see more orange vest then deer or elk.

I think like ten differnt rigs went past camp last year....saw about 1-3 other hunters per day and they were a long ways away, except for the one who shot at us !!!!!.... most hunters here feel that where I hunt is not (elk) country and head for the high timber...I just say have at'r I'll stay here!!! LOL!!!! I have a pic or two of what it looks like where I hunt in my profile.... but I doo see way more folks during deer season than elk!!!!