Knockdown Power
 

I just read an article on a new theory about why some animals drop in their tracks and others run before dropping. Some veterinarians were involved in a buffalo culling operation in Africa. All the animals were shot in the heart-lung area and as you would guess, some dropped where they stood and some did not. All the buffalo were examined and dissected, and when they removed the brains of the ones that were knocked down instantly, they discovered massive rupturing of blood vessels in the brain. The ones that had not fallen instantly did not have this damage. They concluded that the bullets that killed instantly had struck the animal at the same moment of it' s heartbeat. The arteries to the brain were already carrying a full surge of blood pressure and when the bullets hit, it created a huge amount of additional pressure and caused the vessels to rupture...Makes sense I guess.

What do you think?

RE: Knockdown Power
 

Sounds good to me. It makes sence.

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IT' s Called SHOCK TO THE SYSTEM[>:][8D]

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beat,beat: shoot! no, wait. beat, beat: shoot! No wait. Darn, now I don' t know when to shoot. Lets see, figure a heatrate of 60 and I am shooting a 180 gr bullet 250 yards..... AAAAHHHHHH!!!!

Sounds interesting, but don' t help us much.

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Very interesting.

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Bullets with great expansion like ballistic tips at high velocity from a powerful caliber will drop an animal in its tracks.

For example a 300win mag shooting a 150gr ballistic tip will drop an antelope in its tracks with a good double lung shot.

I see coyotes drop in their tracks all the time from the explosive varmint bullets out of a .223 or 22.250

Conversely controlled expansion bullets generally won' t drop an animal in its tracks unless the spine is hit.

I have never seen an elk drop in its tracks unless the spine was hit, but I' m sure others of you out there may have seen it.

The high shoulder shot which gets the spine will drop animals in their tracks.

These are methods you can use to drop animals in their tracks with some consistency, if you find that important.

Interesting info on the heart beat theory.

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I read an article by a veterinarian about this topic and his thought was the aorta was the key. If you hit the heart, the circulatory system has valves to keep blood pressure up and the animal lives for a while and can run off.

This guy said, if you hit just above the heart and unhook the aorta and major plumbing, the animals blood pressure drops instantly and they " faint" . They then expire from massive blood loss while unconscious.

It make and interesting theory also.

KC

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I read that also .. I think that could be the answer. I know I have shot deer with the same gun in the same place with different results .. Bill

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it is somthing to make you go hmmmm. You know as long as they don' t run far from a hart and lung shot I don' t care were they fall as long as they fall :D;)

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well that goes against what i thought i thought if you did your best to hit the deer in a multiple vital zone it would drop (heart and both lungs)
but i do believe that that could make all the difference

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Makes good sense to me.

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Which is why I try to time my shots. Calculate the range, then elevation on the shot.. then try to figure any windage and compensation.
Timing the heartbeat does take some practice, but can easily be done over time.

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lol

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You know there are alot of theories and this may be true. Watch for the rangefinder/blood pressure indicator.

I am not sure on this as I have seen alot of deer drop in tracks, plenty dead before they hit... no twitch at all.

I have heard another theory relating to breathing and that makes sense as well. If you hit at the exhale, then there is less oxygen in the blood = DRT. If you hit right after the inhale, they can be dead but there is still oxygen in the blood = take off running.

Either way a good hit = death, and have at most seen a deer run about 50 yards then drop. If you make a solid heart/lung hit it is dying soon.
This is hunting, lets not make it too scientific,as it is already a simple concept. Good Hit = Die and either DRT, or a short run. Bad Hit = Possible death but a longer tracking job.

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Noway - I've dropped 2 adult Elk with .300 WM XP3 Failsafe bullets in their track with shot that took out their lungs and heart. I do think that with bullets that designed to hold together and expand slower for Elk the shoulder shot which will also take out the lungs is probably a more ideal shot in my experience. Break the major front leg and lungs and it won't go far.

I think either way a solid broadside shot (ie.. lungs, heart/lungs, shoulder/lungs) will do what need to be done to bring the animal down pretty consistently in a distance where you can find the animal. Although, if given the opportunity, after the initial shot, I will always try to put another shot into an Elk. They are an incredibly tough animal.

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I always been of the opinion that it has more to do with O2 supplyto the brain.If an animal is on the exhale and unexcited and takes a double lung shot or heart there is no way the breathing apparatus can function to resupply the brain and it's lights out right now.This of course is only my theory.Spining an animal also interupts brain messages causing a malfunction @ the junction...............Harold

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I don't think any of these ideas may help us in the field per se, but they do help us understand how an animal dies, and why a certain animal may react differently than another shot in exactly the same circumstances.

It makes sense to me. Hit the chest when the heart is on the "high" beat, and there is too much pressure for all of those vessels to handle. Hit the aorta and there isn't enough pressure to do anything and the animal faints. Hit the animal with no oxygen in the blood and it can't go anywhere on reserves. And hit the animal with plenty of oxygen in the blood, and it will surely die, but can make it a while before it does die.

I would like to see what the different brains look like in these instances. Ones where the heart was on the high beat, low beat, where the aorta was struck, and where there was differences in oxygen. Unfortunately, we cannot kill enough deer here to be able to actually document everything and see a pattern develop.

Kinda cool.

Later,

Marcial

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HYDROLIC SHOCK
Hydrolic shock is the rapid dispertion of blood from the impact and expantion point of highvelocity bullets
causing blood vessles and arteries to rupture. Much like shooting a milk jug full of water with fast expanding bullet,it hits and expands so fast that water causesthe plastic to ruptureand split.
Shooting it with slow expanding bullet causes less rupture and splitting more through and through hole
Choosing the correct cartridge and bullet for the game you are hunting is the first key to clean one shot kills.
NEXT is ability Know your abilities before you pull the trigger

Ability =Lots of practice not just at the range on perfect benches/distances,
but in the woods with your stands or blinds. (they are not perfect benches)
The woods also have variables and obstacles: trees,bushes and limbs ect...
these are bullet deflectors. Deflected bullets are misses and/or wounded lost game
When you become aware of all of these.......
Then we get toBUCK FEVER (also in the case of Does, DEER FEVER) this
causes problems with nerves,rapid heart rate,shaking,and some blindness to
range and obstacles such as trees and limbs which takes us back to bullet
deflectors.(missed and/or wounded lostgame)

PLEASEHAVE RESPECT FOR THE GAME YOU HUNT

just my opinion THANKS

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Hmm, I don't think so. Why only ruptures in the brain?

But it does make ya' think.

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Its called usinga big bullet, hitting the right spot and creating shock that runs through its body when the bullet impacts. Has nothing to do with the animals heart beat. Are these the same experts that said dogs cant see themselves in a mirror?

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Break bone with the first one. Thats been my theory, handed down from generations of hunters. Use enough gun and take out the front shoulder with the first shot the animal can't go far. I look for a quartering away shot so I can take out both lungs and the offside shoulder which inevitably equates to a short tracking job. The rest is theory, I'm dealing with years of experience.[8D]

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feddoc
why not its the weakest point thats the first thing doctors tell you with high blood pressure (STROKES)

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Big Bold Bullet.......front shoulder. End of story.
Understand that I in no way want unnecessary suffering, but my one and only focus is breaking the animal down. Easier on everyone involved, most importantly those helping me get him out!!!

Now if we are Archery hunting.......different story with different results, but then different expectations as well!!

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learn alot anyway . many thanks friends


[email protected]

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It has nothing to do with "using a big bullet" either. Otherwise I'd be tracking deer I've shot with my .243 a lot farther than deer I've shot with my .30-06, and that hasn't been the case.

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So arterial shock sounds good until I think about the deer and elk I've seen fall like they have been hit in the head with a hammer from an arrow. I was told that if you hit the connection of the arteries and top of the heart the instant pressure drop makes the animal collapses and in essences die instantly (since I don’t have a way to verify the heart beat at that time I say die).

Even excellent shot placement will provide many different results and I normally try for the heart/lung/liver shot to get maximum bleeding. Knockdown power comes in many forms and I for one am pleased when an animal falls in its tracks and equally pleased when I have made an excellent shot and have a short tracking job to do.

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BUT.....you are talking about deer AND you may be talking about deer hit in differing organs.
All other things being equal.......bigger, badder bullet equals quicker knockdown. Period. End of story!

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I know you are much more knowledgable than myelf, but I am not too sure on this. Logic would say a bigger bullet (.30 caliber) would be more effective. Perhaps you shoot your 243 more accurate and place it better with this rifle?
I am of the opinion that bigger is better, or they would have quit making the rifle at 243. I have heard from many people (internet and local) that someone they know uses a 243 and had a hell of a time tracking. However, you are probably one that can place your bullet anywhere you want it to go and lights out. Then there is Joe "site in" that hunts and gut shots with a 243.

Hence, the magic of the "bigger bullet", an off shot is still pretty good, and will more likely be lethal than that of the smaller 243. I've even read about many hunters using .338 and larger on whitetail!

I used to live in SC (South Cackalackie) and knew a guy that hunted with a 300 RUM. I never got interested in hunting there as the does I seen along the road were about the size of a large German Shepherd!

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Still never seen one of those 90 lb does hit at 100 yards with a 150 gr. BT from a 300 RUM! Wish I had!!!

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hinkleid
what part sc?
300 win mag with 220gr round nose just kindablowsthemoverat 150 yards
(watched a freindwish i had video) LOL flipped it in air
SC and GA, Deer/hogsI use a .222 with 45gr sxbullet at 3300 fps or a.22-250
with 50 gr sx bullet at 4000 fps.In 12 years I have never haddeer or hog go more than
20 yards. (I only take head orheart shots mostly heart.)
GA. 5 deer limit whenI started now 8, SC.limit 5 about 150 deer in the last 12 years
I've got 2 bears380lb and 430lb 75 yards ground bilndwith.243 inOntarioboth
went less than25 yards.
.243/6mm is enough for all north american game with correct bullet, range and shot
placement.

Know your abilities before you pull the trigger!!!!

just my opinion THX

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Too funny.

I used to live in Murrells Inlet (just under Myrtle Beach). I also lied in Hilton Head for awhile. Love the place but expensive there.
I did not realize the limit was that high! Guess there are not as many hunters there? Here in ID, seems everyone hunts. If I knew that I probably would have went. Get alot of meat off 5 little ones. I used to see the small bucks and does that lived in closed air force base in Myrtle. Have to watch out for those buggers along 17.
The bud I am talking about used to work security at Daufuskie Resort (just a boat ride off Hilton Head). Always was a wannabe cop (I told him that all the time) and had to pick up a 300 RUM to hunt SC whitetail.

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Hilton head ok
That area issome of my old stompin ground. 10 years Richmond hill GA. about 15 miles west
of Savannah GA. now in Spartenburg SC. area.
Hunted/fished alot ofgroundalong I-95 and 17 to the coast from South NewportGA. up to
Beauford SC. Lots of deer/hog therebut they are small thats why the limits are like they are.
Didn't hunt the coastal areas this year for deer. Coastal area limits went up
check this out
SC.regs. go to link then scroll down to huntingthen click on zones 1-11
http://www.dnr.sc.gov/regulations.html
5 zones no limits onbucks2 anterless per day oneither sexdays

GA. regs. http://georgiawildlife.dnr.state.ga.us/content/displaycontent.asp?txtDocument=279&txtPage=2
limit 12 10 anterless 2 bucks

Hwy 17 isbad in GA. and SC.
Good luck

Know your abilities before you pull the trigger!!!!
just my opinion thx

RE: Knockdown Power
 

Back to the post....I read the same article and I think it is true, the problem is (as others said)that you cant intentionally repeat it. I try to break the shoulder also. I am curious about the archery animals "droping in their tracks" I have never seen this myself or on TV. My experience w/ archery has been good hit = short trail, bad hit = trail w/ no end. Although I will mention that fighters who take ahit in the liver get paralized and maybe its the same w/ animals.

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I guess I am not smart enough to understand all this.I just put the cross hairs right behind there front leg and shoot.Some fall some run a little ways.I am a hunter and I cant even start to think what happens inside an animal when hit with a high powered rifle.