Knockdown Power
03-08-2007, 09:25 PM
#12
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 96
RE: Knockdown Power
ORIGINAL: IMINRUT
I just read an article on a new theory about why some animals drop in their tracks and others run before dropping. Some veterinarians were involved in a buffalo culling operation in Africa. All the animals were shot in the heart-lung area and as you would guess, some dropped where they stood and some did not. All the buffalo were examined and dissected, and when they removed the brains of the ones that were knocked down instantly, they discovered massive rupturing of blood vessels in the brain. The ones that had not fallen instantly did not have this damage. They concluded that the bullets that killed instantly had struck the animal at the same moment of it' s heartbeat. The arteries to the brain were already carrying a full surge of blood pressure and when the bullets hit, it created a huge amount of additional pressure and caused the vessels to rupture...Makes sense I guess.
What do you think?
I just read an article on a new theory about why some animals drop in their tracks and others run before dropping. Some veterinarians were involved in a buffalo culling operation in Africa. All the animals were shot in the heart-lung area and as you would guess, some dropped where they stood and some did not. All the buffalo were examined and dissected, and when they removed the brains of the ones that were knocked down instantly, they discovered massive rupturing of blood vessels in the brain. The ones that had not fallen instantly did not have this damage. They concluded that the bullets that killed instantly had struck the animal at the same moment of it' s heartbeat. The arteries to the brain were already carrying a full surge of blood pressure and when the bullets hit, it created a huge amount of additional pressure and caused the vessels to rupture...Makes sense I guess.
What do you think?
Timing the heartbeat does take some practice, but can easily be done over time.
03-08-2007, 10:46 PM
#13
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lake County, Florida
Posts: 3,313
RE: Knockdown Power
ORIGINAL: hinkleid
Which is why I try to time my shots. Calculate the range, then elevation on the shot.. then try to figure any windage and compensation.
Timing the heartbeat does take some practice, but can easily be done over time.
ORIGINAL: IMINRUT
I just read an article on a new theory about why some animals drop in their tracks and others run before dropping. Some veterinarians were involved in a buffalo culling operation in Africa. All the animals were shot in the heart-lung area and as you would guess, some dropped where they stood and some did not. All the buffalo were examined and dissected, and when they removed the brains of the ones that were knocked down instantly, they discovered massive rupturing of blood vessels in the brain. The ones that had not fallen instantly did not have this damage. They concluded that the bullets that killed instantly had struck the animal at the same moment of it' s heartbeat. The arteries to the brain were already carrying a full surge of blood pressure and when the bullets hit, it created a huge amount of additional pressure and caused the vessels to rupture...Makes sense I guess.
What do you think?
I just read an article on a new theory about why some animals drop in their tracks and others run before dropping. Some veterinarians were involved in a buffalo culling operation in Africa. All the animals were shot in the heart-lung area and as you would guess, some dropped where they stood and some did not. All the buffalo were examined and dissected, and when they removed the brains of the ones that were knocked down instantly, they discovered massive rupturing of blood vessels in the brain. The ones that had not fallen instantly did not have this damage. They concluded that the bullets that killed instantly had struck the animal at the same moment of it' s heartbeat. The arteries to the brain were already carrying a full surge of blood pressure and when the bullets hit, it created a huge amount of additional pressure and caused the vessels to rupture...Makes sense I guess.
What do you think?
Timing the heartbeat does take some practice, but can easily be done over time.
03-09-2007, 12:27 AM
#14
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 96
RE: Knockdown Power
ORIGINAL: txhunter58
beat,beat: shoot! no, wait. beat, beat: shoot! No wait. Darn, now I don' t know when to shoot. Lets see, figure a heatrate of 60 and I am shooting a 180 gr bullet 250 yards..... AAAAHHHHHH!!!!
Sounds interesting, but don' t help us much.
beat,beat: shoot! no, wait. beat, beat: shoot! No wait. Darn, now I don' t know when to shoot. Lets see, figure a heatrate of 60 and I am shooting a 180 gr bullet 250 yards..... AAAAHHHHHH!!!!
Sounds interesting, but don' t help us much.
I am not sure on this as I have seen alot of deer drop in tracks, plenty dead before they hit... no twitch at all.
I have heard another theory relating to breathing and that makes sense as well. If you hit at the exhale, then there is less oxygen in the blood = DRT. If you hit right after the inhale, they can be dead but there is still oxygen in the blood = take off running.
Either way a good hit = death, and have at most seen a deer run about 50 yards then drop. If you make a solid heart/lung hit it is dying soon.
This is hunting, lets not make it too scientific,as it is already a simple concept. Good Hit = Die and either DRT, or a short run. Bad Hit = Possible death but a longer tracking job.
03-09-2007, 05:42 PM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: MN USA
Posts: 1,392
RE: Knockdown Power
Noway - I've dropped 2 adult Elk with .300 WM XP3 Failsafe bullets in their track with shot that took out their lungs and heart. I do think that with bullets that designed to hold together and expand slower for Elk the shoulder shot which will also take out the lungs is probably a more ideal shot in my experience. Break the major front leg and lungs and it won't go far.
I think either way a solid broadside shot (ie.. lungs, heart/lungs, shoulder/lungs) will do what need to be done to bring the animal down pretty consistently in a distance where you can find the animal. Although, if given the opportunity, after the initial shot, I will always try to put another shot into an Elk. They are an incredibly tough animal.
I think either way a solid broadside shot (ie.. lungs, heart/lungs, shoulder/lungs) will do what need to be done to bring the animal down pretty consistently in a distance where you can find the animal. Although, if given the opportunity, after the initial shot, I will always try to put another shot into an Elk. They are an incredibly tough animal.
03-10-2007, 05:16 PM
#16
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 692
RE: Knockdown Power
I always been of the opinion that it has more to do with O2 supplyto the brain.If an animal is on the exhale and unexcited and takes a double lung shot or heart there is no way the breathing apparatus can function to resupply the brain and it's lights out right now.This of course is only my theory.Spining an animal also interupts brain messages causing a malfunction @ the junction...............Harold
03-10-2007, 07:23 PM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Crescent Valley, NV
Posts: 2,271
RE: Knockdown Power
I don't think any of these ideas may help us in the field per se, but they do help us understand how an animal dies, and why a certain animal may react differently than another shot in exactly the same circumstances.
It makes sense to me. Hit the chest when the heart is on the "high" beat, and there is too much pressure for all of those vessels to handle. Hit the aorta and there isn't enough pressure to do anything and the animal faints. Hit the animal with no oxygen in the blood and it can't go anywhere on reserves. And hit the animal with plenty of oxygen in the blood, and it will surely die, but can make it a while before it does die.
I would like to see what the different brains look like in these instances. Ones where the heart was on the high beat, low beat, where the aorta was struck, and where there was differences in oxygen. Unfortunately, we cannot kill enough deer here to be able to actually document everything and see a pattern develop.
Kinda cool.
Later,
Marcial
It makes sense to me. Hit the chest when the heart is on the "high" beat, and there is too much pressure for all of those vessels to handle. Hit the aorta and there isn't enough pressure to do anything and the animal faints. Hit the animal with no oxygen in the blood and it can't go anywhere on reserves. And hit the animal with plenty of oxygen in the blood, and it will surely die, but can make it a while before it does die.
I would like to see what the different brains look like in these instances. Ones where the heart was on the high beat, low beat, where the aorta was struck, and where there was differences in oxygen. Unfortunately, we cannot kill enough deer here to be able to actually document everything and see a pattern develop.
Kinda cool.
Later,
Marcial
03-11-2007, 09:09 AM
#18
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Enoree,SC
Posts: 129
RE: Knockdown Power
HYDROLIC SHOCK
Hydrolic shock is the rapid dispertion of blood from the impact and expantion point of highvelocity bullets
causing blood vessles and arteries to rupture. Much like shooting a milk jug full of water with fast expanding bullet,it hits and expands so fast that water causesthe plastic to ruptureand split.
Shooting it with slow expanding bullet causes less rupture and splitting more through and through hole
Choosing the correct cartridge and bullet for the game you are hunting is the first key to clean one shot kills.
NEXT is ability Know your abilities before you pull the trigger
Ability =Lots of practice not just at the range on perfect benches/distances,
but in the woods with your stands or blinds. (they are not perfect benches)
The woods also have variables and obstacles: trees,bushes and limbs ect...
these are bullet deflectors. Deflected bullets are misses and/or wounded lost game
When you become aware of all of these.......
Then we get toBUCK FEVER (also in the case of Does, DEER FEVER) this
causes problems with nerves,rapid heart rate,shaking,and some blindness to
range and obstacles such as trees and limbs which takes us back to bullet
deflectors.(missed and/or wounded lostgame)
PLEASEHAVE RESPECT FOR THE GAME YOU HUNT
just my opinion THANKS
Hydrolic shock is the rapid dispertion of blood from the impact and expantion point of highvelocity bullets
causing blood vessles and arteries to rupture. Much like shooting a milk jug full of water with fast expanding bullet,it hits and expands so fast that water causesthe plastic to ruptureand split.
Shooting it with slow expanding bullet causes less rupture and splitting more through and through hole
Choosing the correct cartridge and bullet for the game you are hunting is the first key to clean one shot kills.
NEXT is ability Know your abilities before you pull the trigger
Ability =Lots of practice not just at the range on perfect benches/distances,
but in the woods with your stands or blinds. (they are not perfect benches)
The woods also have variables and obstacles: trees,bushes and limbs ect...
these are bullet deflectors. Deflected bullets are misses and/or wounded lost game
When you become aware of all of these.......
Then we get toBUCK FEVER (also in the case of Does, DEER FEVER) this
causes problems with nerves,rapid heart rate,shaking,and some blindness to
range and obstacles such as trees and limbs which takes us back to bullet
deflectors.(missed and/or wounded lostgame)
PLEASEHAVE RESPECT FOR THE GAME YOU HUNT
just my opinion THANKS
03-11-2007, 10:24 PM
#20
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 5,180
RE: Knockdown Power
Its called usinga big bullet, hitting the right spot and creating shock that runs through its body when the bullet impacts. Has nothing to do with the animals heart beat. Are these the same experts that said dogs cant see themselves in a mirror?