Yellowstone is Dead
01-23-2011, 06:07 PM
#91
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 674
I think your wrong I dont think anybody wants them totally wipe out its just common scene that you have to control them at some time.
Ok lets say the wolves will keep all elk, deer, sheep,moose all game animals to there proper numbers so they don't need managed by man .
So we just give up hunting?
Tell my 12 year old son to bad you will never learn to hunt like your father ,fathers father ?
This is what I struggle with.
Then the only reason they are not being controlled is because of lawsuits from the Peta group . If its sound science to hunt then we should hunt them not make it political.
If it come down to me our my family never hunting again or the wolf I will be selfish wolf has to go !
Last edited by justhuntitall; 01-23-2011 at 06:20 PM.
01-23-2011, 06:16 PM
#92
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 59
Do you really think that Tang? Sheesh, get real. What we don't like is a no-native wolf dropped in on top of us and then allowed to over populated beyond control. These wolves have more rights then the guy down the road who just shot my cow. Wolves can kill my cows two or three times before anything is done and then chances are they will catch the "responsible" wolf/wolves and collar it and then watch it to see if it kills again. The guy down the road shoots one of my cows and he is going to be in some deep trouble the first time.
01-23-2011, 06:27 PM
#93
Spike
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9
Finnbear>Ya see mr mules....yer one of these people that have to blame everything on something and it's always someone or something Else's fault!!! You are so intent on trying to make me look stupid that you can't even see the points I'm trying to make!!!! you are so intent on trying to prove this big conspiracy that you fail to see the Forest for the trees....<
Finnbear I will have to disagree with you again, I am not the one making you look stupid, you are handling that job just fine all by your self. I know of the problems with poaching of elk by the Indians and whites both, but what you may not know yet is that wolves have been hitting the Colockum elk also. And when the wolves get going you won't be talking about the people poaching near as much.
Finnbear, have you looked at Idaho, Montana and Wyoming? Have you read about the problems they have encountered? Do you know about the Lolo elk herd? How about the moose that they once had?Do you honestly think the people of these states are making a big fuss about these wolves just because they don't like wolves? Do you know anything about the Mexican wolves that the feds dropped into the middle of cattle country and the problems the people of Arizona have had? Do you know what the spotted owl did to the timber industry? http://www.takingliberty.us/TLHome.html Maybe if you did a little studying you wouldn't have to blame someone else for making you look Stupid.
Finnbear I will have to disagree with you again, I am not the one making you look stupid, you are handling that job just fine all by your self. I know of the problems with poaching of elk by the Indians and whites both, but what you may not know yet is that wolves have been hitting the Colockum elk also. And when the wolves get going you won't be talking about the people poaching near as much.
Finnbear, have you looked at Idaho, Montana and Wyoming? Have you read about the problems they have encountered? Do you know about the Lolo elk herd? How about the moose that they once had?Do you honestly think the people of these states are making a big fuss about these wolves just because they don't like wolves? Do you know anything about the Mexican wolves that the feds dropped into the middle of cattle country and the problems the people of Arizona have had? Do you know what the spotted owl did to the timber industry? http://www.takingliberty.us/TLHome.html Maybe if you did a little studying you wouldn't have to blame someone else for making you look Stupid.
We as humans tend to over think everything. We "know" what is best for the wildlife, the environment, and just about everything else because we can make decisions. When humans get involved, emotion and bias gets put into everything we touch because we can't separate how we feel from what the "true" science is telling us. True science is completely unaltered, unbiased evidence that very rarely ever exists now that politics and money are involved.
01-23-2011, 07:14 PM
#94
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kittitas, Wa.
Posts: 462
Yes mr mule U sure don't dissapoint!!!! you are part of the problem!!! U are so pig headed that U refuse to see any other opinion except yours and like minded ones..... and anyone else is either stupid and not a real hunter I beg to differ with U...I am not the stupid one here, U are!!! now U have made the statment that the wolves are killin all the elk in the clockum...what is your proof?? The boundry is only 4 miles from my house and we camp up there often in the summer aint been eaten yet nor have I heard any howlin at the moon , nor have any of my friends seen any either...where they at ..............OH I know!!!!!U the only one that can see them ...right!!??!!!! yo dude don't ferget to wear yer tinfoil hat when ya go to bed tontight!! it keeps the little green men away and the cia can't track yer brain waves!!!!!!!!! I didn't know that U were postin comedy!!! I thought U wanted discuss real issues with real evidence!!!!!!
01-23-2011, 07:31 PM
#95
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 59
There seems to be two sides to this topic. On one side, there are those that believed all the stories about the big bad wolf, and want to kill them all. They want their massive elk herds back and believe the elk exist for them to shoot. The other side seems to recognize the wolf as an important part of the ecosystem that needs to be managed to keep wolves and game herds at healthy levels.
The truth is coming out for all to see, the tide is turning and the wolf cult is scrambling, making up brand new lies to cover up the lies they have already told, but it is too late. The truth is staring them in the face from Wyoming through Idaho and into Montana.
David Mech who had a lot to do with the wolf introduction, said years ago, what would really hurt the wolves is if they were not managed, he said that the public tide would turn against the wolves. Who's Fault is that? I would suggest that those of you who are interested in learning more order the DVD, The wolving of America, by Jim Beers. @http://www.facebook.com/TheWolvingOfAmerica When Scott Rockholm's Documentary hits the TV screen's across this country many will see what is and has happened, and those responsible will be not riding to high in the saddle any more.
01-23-2011, 07:45 PM
#96
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 59
For every website you post backing your claims, I could post 5 with a rebuttal but that doesn't make it truth. If you read and believe everything on the internet, you're just as dumb as everyone else. Read both sides, take in as much information as possible, and then when you think you've made up your mind about who is right and who is wrong, then read up some more. I promise you are not getting the full truth from anyone in any of those websites regardless if they are pro or anti wolf. This whole wolves are good and bad is almost worst than politics because of the huge polar differences and the lack of budging on either side to actually know there are pros and cons to both sides of the aisle and that the most beneficial outcome is probably more of something that lies in the middle.
We as humans tend to over think everything. We "know" what is best for the wildlife, the environment, and just about everything else because we can make decisions. When humans get involved, emotion and bias gets put into everything we touch because we can't separate how we feel from what the "true" science is telling us. True science is completely unaltered, unbiased evidence that very rarely ever exists now that politics and money are involved.
We as humans tend to over think everything. We "know" what is best for the wildlife, the environment, and just about everything else because we can make decisions. When humans get involved, emotion and bias gets put into everything we touch because we can't separate how we feel from what the "true" science is telling us. True science is completely unaltered, unbiased evidence that very rarely ever exists now that politics and money are involved.
Lets hear your side Dack, show me your web sites that will prove what I have said wrong. You crack me up.
01-23-2011, 07:54 PM
#97
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 59
Yes mr mule U sure don't dissapoint!!!! you are part of the problem!!! U are so pig headed that U refuse to see any other opinion except yours and like minded ones..... and anyone else is either stupid and not a real hunter I beg to differ with U...I am not the stupid one here, U are!!! now U have made the statment that the wolves are killin all the elk in the clockum...what is your proof?? The boundry is only 4 miles from my house and we camp up there often in the summer aint been eaten yet nor have I heard any howlin at the moon , nor have any of my friends seen any either...where they at ..............OH I know!!!!!U the only one that can see them ...right!!??!!!! yo dude don't ferget to wear yer tinfoil hat when ya go to bed tontight!! it keeps the little green men away and the cia can't track yer brain waves!!!!!!!!! I didn't know that U were postin comedy!!! I thought U wanted discuss real issues with real evidence!!!!!!
01-23-2011, 08:10 PM
#98
Spike
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9
Moremules,
You are actually proving my point as you failed to comprehend what I typed. "For every website you post backing your claims, I could post 5 with a rebuttal but that doesn't make it truth." Yet you believe 100% beyond any doubt that some guy doing a documentary has all the credibility in the world, just like a lot of people in the country believe everything Michael Moore has made.
I never said I was for wolves anywhere in my statement. What I was doing was calling you out for what you are and that is someone that has been blinded by the fact that you are selfish and want only what benefits you, which is the biggest elk, moose, and other big game herds.
You are actually proving my point as you failed to comprehend what I typed. "For every website you post backing your claims, I could post 5 with a rebuttal but that doesn't make it truth." Yet you believe 100% beyond any doubt that some guy doing a documentary has all the credibility in the world, just like a lot of people in the country believe everything Michael Moore has made.
I never said I was for wolves anywhere in my statement. What I was doing was calling you out for what you are and that is someone that has been blinded by the fact that you are selfish and want only what benefits you, which is the biggest elk, moose, and other big game herds.
01-23-2011, 08:21 PM
#99
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 59
Moremules,
You are actually proving my point as you failed to comprehend what I typed. "For every website you post backing your claims, I could post 5 with a rebuttal but that doesn't make it truth." Yet you believe 100% beyond any doubt that some guy doing a documentary has all the credibility in the world, just like a lot of people in the country believe everything Michael Moore has made.
I never said I was for wolves anywhere in my statement. What I was doing was calling you out for what you are and that is someone that has been blinded by the fact that you are selfish and want only what benefits you, which is the biggest elk, moose, and other big game herds.
You are actually proving my point as you failed to comprehend what I typed. "For every website you post backing your claims, I could post 5 with a rebuttal but that doesn't make it truth." Yet you believe 100% beyond any doubt that some guy doing a documentary has all the credibility in the world, just like a lot of people in the country believe everything Michael Moore has made.
I never said I was for wolves anywhere in my statement. What I was doing was calling you out for what you are and that is someone that has been blinded by the fact that you are selfish and want only what benefits you, which is the biggest elk, moose, and other big game herds.
01-23-2011, 10:58 PM
#100
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 59
From MTdrahthaar Sorry to be a sarcastic jerk again,
That is all fine and dandy there Todd. But tell me something. If these wolves are the only reason for the elk and moose and deer disappearing in ID and MT, then how is it that British Columbia was able to DOUBLE its elk population in the same 10 years that our elk population tanked? How did they take their East Kootenai elk herd from 15000 to 30000 in the midst of FAR MORE WOLVES, FAR MORE BEARS, AND FAR MORE LIONS. How are they able to kill more 6 point bulls in the East Kootenai than we kill bulls in all of Region 1 in MT? Is the 49th parallel a magic line or something? What, the super-wolves can't come crawling back over I90, MT 200? Or do they just stop at the border. Oh, I know, wolves aren't as hungry in BC. Can't run as fast? Blind in one eye? Wooden noses? Arthritis? Must be some reason they have never come over the hill from Alberta into that trench north of Eureka MT, Cause I have stood a hill above the border there, and glassed to the north. It looks like the flipping serengeti up there. Or can you actually have both wolves and elk, with proper mgt of habitat and game? They have something figured out up there. Sorry to be a sarcastic jerk again, but this whole argument of subspecies is irrefutably stupid.
IMPROVING BRITISH COLUMBIA’S WILDLIFE
WOLF HARVEST MANAGEMENT STANDARDS
Management Constraints and Opportunities
Wolf populations are primarily limited by the distribution and abundance of their principal prey
species (deer, elk, moose, caribou, mountain goat, mountain sheep, and bison) and intolerance of
humans for wolves. Isolated declines have occurred in areas where wolves live adjacent to
intensive human settlements or livestock management areas. The conservation of wolves and their
habitats will be closely linked to management strategies for their prey. Wolves possess both high
reproductive and recruitment rates, which fluctuate widely in response to the abundance and
vulnerability of their prey. In addition, wolves are also highly mobile. Long term observation
supported by recent research demonstrates that wolves possess the ability to significantly reduce
and suppress principle prey populations, including large ungulates such as caribou and moose.
¨
Provincial Harvest Management Goals
In general, wolf-ungulate systems will be managed to optimize population sustainability for both
predator and prey populations, while maintaining options and opportunities for viewing, hunting,
and trapping wolves. More liberal hunting seasons may be provided in areas where wolves are
suppressing prey populations below optimal levels.
¨
Hunting Policy Statement
Generally, wolf harvests are incidental to hunting activities of other species. Wherever possible,
wolf hunting regulations will be kept simple, uniform with ecosystem units, and consistent over
time. Control of wolves may be essential for the maintenance of ungulate populations in some
areas. Removal of specific problem animals, where required to protect agricultural animals, will be
conducted by government personnel.
¨
Regulating Harvest
Wolves will normally be harvested through GOS, with adjustments in bag limits and season lengths
to regulate the harvest. Opening dates will normally start on August 1 in northern ecosystems and
on September 10 in southern ecosystems. The closing date may extend until June 15. Special
control measures to reduce wolf numbers may be necessary in areas with high wolf densities and
demonstrated prey declines, and where harvesting and trapping are not effective at regulating wolf numbers at desired levels.
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wld/documen...strategy99.pdf
15 years of wolf protection in the lower 48, are you still wondering, MTdrahthaar? A wolf is a wolf, a bear is a bear should the polar bears be brought down to the lower 48?
That is all fine and dandy there Todd. But tell me something. If these wolves are the only reason for the elk and moose and deer disappearing in ID and MT, then how is it that British Columbia was able to DOUBLE its elk population in the same 10 years that our elk population tanked? How did they take their East Kootenai elk herd from 15000 to 30000 in the midst of FAR MORE WOLVES, FAR MORE BEARS, AND FAR MORE LIONS. How are they able to kill more 6 point bulls in the East Kootenai than we kill bulls in all of Region 1 in MT? Is the 49th parallel a magic line or something? What, the super-wolves can't come crawling back over I90, MT 200? Or do they just stop at the border. Oh, I know, wolves aren't as hungry in BC. Can't run as fast? Blind in one eye? Wooden noses? Arthritis? Must be some reason they have never come over the hill from Alberta into that trench north of Eureka MT, Cause I have stood a hill above the border there, and glassed to the north. It looks like the flipping serengeti up there. Or can you actually have both wolves and elk, with proper mgt of habitat and game? They have something figured out up there. Sorry to be a sarcastic jerk again, but this whole argument of subspecies is irrefutably stupid.
IMPROVING BRITISH COLUMBIA’S WILDLIFE
WOLF HARVEST MANAGEMENT STANDARDS
Management Constraints and Opportunities
Wolf populations are primarily limited by the distribution and abundance of their principal prey
species (deer, elk, moose, caribou, mountain goat, mountain sheep, and bison) and intolerance of
humans for wolves. Isolated declines have occurred in areas where wolves live adjacent to
intensive human settlements or livestock management areas. The conservation of wolves and their
habitats will be closely linked to management strategies for their prey. Wolves possess both high
reproductive and recruitment rates, which fluctuate widely in response to the abundance and
vulnerability of their prey. In addition, wolves are also highly mobile. Long term observation
supported by recent research demonstrates that wolves possess the ability to significantly reduce
and suppress principle prey populations, including large ungulates such as caribou and moose.
¨
Provincial Harvest Management Goals
In general, wolf-ungulate systems will be managed to optimize population sustainability for both
predator and prey populations, while maintaining options and opportunities for viewing, hunting,
and trapping wolves. More liberal hunting seasons may be provided in areas where wolves are
suppressing prey populations below optimal levels.
¨
Hunting Policy Statement
Generally, wolf harvests are incidental to hunting activities of other species. Wherever possible,
wolf hunting regulations will be kept simple, uniform with ecosystem units, and consistent over
time. Control of wolves may be essential for the maintenance of ungulate populations in some
areas. Removal of specific problem animals, where required to protect agricultural animals, will be
conducted by government personnel.
¨
Regulating Harvest
Wolves will normally be harvested through GOS, with adjustments in bag limits and season lengths
to regulate the harvest. Opening dates will normally start on August 1 in northern ecosystems and
on September 10 in southern ecosystems. The closing date may extend until June 15. Special
control measures to reduce wolf numbers may be necessary in areas with high wolf densities and
demonstrated prey declines, and where harvesting and trapping are not effective at regulating wolf numbers at desired levels.
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wld/documen...strategy99.pdf
15 years of wolf protection in the lower 48, are you still wondering, MTdrahthaar? A wolf is a wolf, a bear is a bear should the polar bears be brought down to the lower 48?