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Yellowstone is Dead

Old 01-17-2011, 03:46 PM
  #41  
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And one more for the mythologists, the heaviest wolf killed during the MT hunt was 117 pounds.

To me, that is amazing because I know of at three guys that told people their wolves were going to go at least 150. LOL hahahahahaha.

Here is a link, if you want to actually read some facts.

http://wolves.files.wordpress.com/20...on-summary.pdf
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Old 01-17-2011, 04:48 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by MTdrahthaar
God, the internet is great place!

I am amazed at two things:
1. How the weight of that Alberta wolf has gone clear to 230 lbs, about a pound for every time it gets posted.

2. How many freaking people have seen it in person.(or at least their mother's brother's nephew's neighbor's cousin twice removed did) LOL.

Next time one of you internet wolf mythologists gets a 220 lbs(very typical weight in MT and ID) black bear down on the ground, go ahead and lift it and get a picture like that guy in the wolf porn pic.

The fact of the matter is, barely 1 person in 100 hunters could even accurately identify a 150 inch whitetail, let alone the weight of an animal most have never laid eyes on.

Just ask any barstool biologist around here, these "Canadian Grays" fart thunder and crap lightning, they have 5 litters a year(yeah, one guy actually told me this), and they eat twice their body weight every day.
Pretty well said................the difference between myth and reality is gettin way out there. By all these stats there should be not a single living animal left in Canada...........not even the 2 legged kind. After all there is some 50000 of these "Canadian Greys" around. I am finally just LMAO at these posts that I once took seriously.
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Old 01-18-2011, 03:55 AM
  #43  
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IMHO the pic looks photoshopped. Anyone notice you can see only one leg of the guy holding up the wolf and with the way his body is you certainly should be able to see the other one? The biggest wolf to date captured or killed still only stands at 175 lbs. and would be fantastic indeed to beat that by 55lbs. ,but that's not the issue.
Wolves belong in Yellowstone but the do need to be controled.
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Old 01-18-2011, 07:20 AM
  #44  
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Size of one wolf means nothing to most of us! Its the numbers.

What I'm concerned about is what is going to be the impact of the wolves on the environment where the wolves had not been for decades and if we don't question this we all are fools.
The feds dont always no best.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBvYcIO-gfQ
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Old 01-18-2011, 09:13 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by MTdrahthaar
God, the internet is great place!



The fact of the matter is, barely 1 person in 100 hunters could even accurately identify a 150 inch whitetail, let alone the weight of an animal most have never laid eyes on.
Where do you get this fact? Just asking.
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Old 01-18-2011, 03:10 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by justhuntitall
Where do you get this fact? Just asking.
Ever been to a sports expo and see a "guess the score" series of antlers? 1 in a 100 dude. Been there and counted the guesses.

You can't take a bunch of guys sitting around on their computers perusing 10 different hunting forums staring at pictures and scores of deer and elk all day, sure they will have a better idea, I am talking the hunting masses, pretty much clueless, even worse on the hoof.

Just laffin!

And BTW, that wolf supposedly in North American Hunter early 2010, weighing in at 175 lbs, from a quick internet search. Maybe someone could verify. Far cry from 230.

I also heard someone killed a 400 inch elk in MT. Guess they all must be 400 inches here!
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Old 01-18-2011, 03:47 PM
  #47  
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Like I said before the size of the wolf means nothing to me.They can all wieght 85lbs and it still don't change nothing.

A 400" Elk seem more believable then a 200lb wolf I think don't quote me on this im not going to google it but wasnt one killed in 2001 gross 420+" ?

Last edited by justhuntitall; 01-18-2011 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 01-18-2011, 05:18 PM
  #48  
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Nah, there were several 400 inch bulls killed here this year, I was just being a sarcastic jerk.
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Old 01-20-2011, 09:07 PM
  #49  
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COMPARISON OF WOLF VARIETIES

January 3, 2011



Dear Mrs. Bartell,

In response to your questions regarding the great disparity in levels of wolf depredation between our former Resident Wolves and the introduced Canadian Grey Wolf, let me attempt to clarify some of the historical issues that surround the work done by several counties in Idaho to document the Resident Wolves in the late 1980's. Starting in the early 1980's attempts were being made by several Wildlife Agencies including Idaho Fish and Game and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services to locate and monitor large predator species that were considered "threatened" or "endangered."

A program was started to send questionnaires to trappers and hunters asking for help in locating these animals, and signs were posted in public offices around the state seeking input from the public to determine if any of these species remained in the state, and if so how many individuals were there. These programs came to be known as "The Wolf and Wolverine Hot Lines." In reality there was a phone number to call that put you in contact with members of Idaho Fish and Game who would take the details of the public's sightings of these rare animals. It was in response to these efforts that counties in Central Idaho began to respond by sending correspondence and sightings to the Agencies involved.

As the years passed in the 1980's a significant amount of data was collected by trappers, hunters, and Fish and Game officers to warrant full time research and monitoring of these species. As criterion to use for observing these species county residents were asked to look for numbers of individuals: sex, age, size of territory, and behavioral qualities such as secretiveness and recruitment numbers of young etc.

During approximately eleven years time (1984-1995), much data using these criteria for observing Resident Wolves was collected and maps of the wolves territories and packs were created. During these
years of observation, very consistent and definitive behavioral and social traits became evident as this
variety of wolf was observed. These traits would become all important in determining what the habitat and prey base this variety of wolf would require, and the impacts it would have on our ungulate populations. A very important contribution to our ability to compare our variety of wolf to the introduced Canadian Grey Wolf was also a result of these years of observing the Pre-Introduction Resident Wolves in their preferred habitats.

I will list the criterion used by the individuals involved in collecting data on the Pre-Introduction Resident
Wolves, and then I will give a brief comparison to the same criterion as observed by all of us in the field as particular to the Canadian Grey Wolf. Remember that really the most important issue to all of us now is the resulting impacts to our fragile ecosystems of one variety of wolf as compared to the other and its portent when deciding on effective wolf control measures.

PRE-INTRODUCTION RESIDENT WOLVES: WOLVES OBSERVED THREW "1995" IN IDAHO.


Highly secretive behavior. Very sensitive to roads and highways. Largely nocturnal.
Usually found either as dispersed individuals or pairs.
Packing activity was very rare except during the months of January-February.
Pack size at breeding time was usually 4-7 individuals.
Females (breeding bitches) retained pups for an average of 18 months.
Pack dispersal was very consistent after breeding season.
Litter size consistently was 1-3 pups. Bitch bred at 2-year old stage.
Extremely selective as to food source. Rarely fed on old carcasses or kills of other species, except
in the most harsh winter conditions.

Very much an opportunist when different prey was available. Spent great percentage of hunting effort on rodent acquisition, (moles to rabbits).
Sport-Reflex Killing almost negligible. Most ungulate depredation was consumptive, not surplus.

Typical kill had hams and shoulders consumed.

Territory of individual or pairs was quite large. Average 2 week return cycle.
Wolf body size: Female 55 lbs.-70 lbs. Male 85 lbs.-105 lbs.
Competition with other predator species including coyote and fox was low. Other canine species co-existed and thrived in presence of Resident Wolves.
Habitat utilized consistently: Mid to high elevation, with forest and mixed forest. Resident Wolves were very resistive to utilizing large areas of open range land with grass or sagebrush cover.
Older mature males almost always solitary except at breeding intervals.
Conflict with domestic dogs very minimal except in rare cases.
Livestock depredations extremely rare but do occur in remote areas.
Consistent avoidance of man made structures, roads, vehicles, and humans.

NOTE: This data as well as maps locating individual wolves, as well as breeding pairs was hand delivered to Craig Groves in 1992, and entered into the Idaho Fish and Game's Conservation Data Base by George Stephens.

Craig Groves was at the time in charge of oversight of the Conservation Data Base for Idaho Fish and Game, and was an Idaho Fish and Game employee.

NON NATIVE WOLF Observed Criterion: Introduced Canadian Grey Wolf, 1996 to present.


Exhibits low level of fear of humans. Non-secretive behavior. Minimal avoidance of humans, vehicles, domestic animals. Will cross large open terrain at will even when other options for cover are available.
Canadian Grey Wolf is found in small to very large pack sizes. Small packs of 5 individuals are common as are large packs with over 20 members.
Pack merging, the condition of 2 or more packs combining is being observed in many areas in the west and is not uncommon. Merged packs of over 40 wolves have been observed in the Central Idaho Wilderness.
Females (breeding bitches) can be bred even at 1-year of age, and produce from 5-9 pups per season. The pups usually remain with the pack but can disperse or be driven off by other pack members.
All females of breeding potential in the pack are usually bred. There is absolutely no indication that any females are kept from breeding by the theoretical "Alpha-female." Large packs are quickly produced and can disperse and merge several times within a week.
Canadian Grey Wolves show a diet preference for elk but will switch at will to a secondary prey species. Low preference is shown for rodent species, but wolves do sporadically hunt rodents.
Sport-Reflex Killing is highly developed in Canadian Grey packs. From observations in the field, 3-5
ungulates are killed for each ungulate consumed. This surplus killing is greatly increased if the pack
size is large or packs have merged. Often small wintering herds of deer or elk are completely
extirpated in one hunting event.

Body Size: Females 60 lbs.-85 lbs. Males 90 lbs.-120 lbs.
Competition with other predatory species is extreme and often fatal. Both mountain lion and bear have been impacted by attacks and from reduced available prey. Other Canines such as Coyotes and Fox have been severely impacted in most of their habitats. Fox are only able to survive in habitats that include lots of willow or dense underbrush. Coyote populations have been reduced by are persisting at lower than historic levels.
Canadian Grey Wolves have been found to utilize all available habitats, from high elevation alpine to sagebrush deserts. This has allowed this variety of wolf to be opportunistic in all ecosystems available to it.
Large mature male wolves remain with the pack threw out the year, sometimes dispersing for short periods of time.
The Canadian Grey Wolf is highly predatory on all domestic canines. Hunting hounds are especially vulnerable to attacks and are usually killed outright in a confrontation by wolves.
Canadian Grey Wolves have shown a preference for predating on domestic livestock even with abundant natural prey present. Beef calves are the most common victims of wolf depredation.
Canadian Grey Wolves show a high level of habituation to humans, and man-made structures. It is not uncommon to find Canadian Grey Wolves in very remote areas eating out of dog dishes and coming onto porches of homes when the owners are present.


It is clear from a comparison of the two varieties of wolves that control efforts will have to take into account the realities of dealing with a wolf as different as the Canadian Grey Wolf is from wolves found in other parts of the continent. Both the high fecundity of the Canadian Grey Wolf and its depredating qualities ensures that control efforts will have to be highly organized and long term if we are to protect our magnificent wildlife from the debacle that is ongoing in Canada and in our western states.

Mrs. Bartell, I will not in this email go into the fraud and corruption that brought us to this wildlife disaster, but suffice it to say that had the Federal Agencies not been corrupt in dealing with the information given them by Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming citizens we would by now have had a recovered Resident wolf population that would still need to be managed, but we would not have what we have now with the very existence of our ungulates hanging in the balance, and wolf borne diseases threatening our way of life. If possible and time permits I will fill you in later on how our investigation turned out, and who
was responsible for purging our maps and data from the Conservation Data Base, and carrying out the introduction of the Canadian Grey Wolf, in direct violation of the Endangered Species Act. It is a very tragic story, but God willing we will turn this around!

Yours, Mr. Kemery

Tim Kemery is a professional trapper and did the mapping work for the IDFG Wolverine Study. He also mapped the Pre-Introduction Resident Wolves, and hand-delivered those maps of 18 resident wolves to Craig Groves at IDFG, Conservation Data Base, then the Heritage Center.

Tim Kemery graduated from the U of I with a B.S. in Range Science in 1982.
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Old 01-20-2011, 09:25 PM
  #50  
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The Mackenzie Valley Wolf

The Canis lupus occidentalis which also goes by the Mackenzie Valley wolf, the Alaskan timber wolf, the Canadian timber wolf, or the rocky mountain wolf, was classified as a gray wolf subspecies in 1829 by Sir John Richardson, M.D. It is one of the largest wolf subspecies in North America.
HABITAT
Mackenzie Valley wolves inhabit much of western Canada and Alaska including Unimak Island. In 1995-96, they were brought from Canada to restore populations in Yellowstone National Park and central Idaho. In Alaska, wolf packs are usually 6 to 12 wolves, though some packs may be as large as 20 to 30. Their territories in Alaska average about 600 square miles. In Yellowstone, pack size averages 9.2 wolves with average territory size of 348 square miles. In Idaho, pack size averages 11.1 with territories averaging 364 square miles.

CHARACTERISTICS
Average males weigh between 100 and 145 pounds with females weighing roughly 10 to 20 percent less. The heaviest on record was caught in Alaska in 1939, weighing 175 pounds. Though the Guinness book of Animal World Records mentions an unconfirmed specimen weighing 230 pounds. They measure 32 to 36 inches shoulder height and 5 to 7 feet in length, from the tip of the nose to the end of the tail. Their long, powerful legs allow them to travel as far as 70 miles a day, and through rough terrain like deep snow. They can reach speeds of up to 40 miles an hour for short periods of time. Their skull measures about 12 inches long. A combination of powerful jaw and neck muscles allows them to break bones and bring down large prey.


DIET
The size of Mackenzie Valley wolves is partially due to their large abundance of food. They will prey on wood bison, elk, caribou, musk ox, moose, Dall sheep, Sitka black-tailed deer, mountain goat, beaver, ground squirrel, vole, snowshoe hare, lemmings, and salmon.

BREEDING
Breeding season usually occurs in February. The dominant male and female of the pack breed in attempt to keep up the strength of the pack. Usually 63 days after breeding, 4 to 6 pups are born. They leave the den in 4 to 6 weeks, and by fall, they are large enough to travel and hunt with the pack. They become full-grown in 6 to 8 months, and sexually mature at about 22 months.

STATUS
Like most other wolves, human activity (hunting, trapping, etc.) is by far the greatest threat. However, protection given to the Mackenzie Valley wolf has allowed its population to increase drammatically. The wolf population in Alaska was estimated between 7,000 and 10,000 in 2006. Wolf population in the northern Rocky Mountains (Greater Yellowstone Area, NW Montana, and Idaho) was estimated to be about 1200 and increasing. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services has decided to remove the gray wolf from the federal endangered list in the Northern Rockies and the western Great Lakes. Courts have overturned attempts in the past to remove them from the list. Legal battles are expected.

http://www.cosmosmith.com/mackenzie_valley_wolves.asp
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