Pack in this fall?
 

Been away for a while. I got great advise here in the past and wanted to get some more if you are all available. I have some details on the trip this fall. We drew first rifle season in zone 70 SW Colorado. We are hunting with Lost Canyon Ranch. Anyone know these guys? Anyway. My understanding is we can only take in 50# of gear each not counting the gun and ammo. We have something like a 24 mile pack in on horseback. So here goes with the new Questions.

1. What are the essentials? Boots, Knives, Clothing, etc. for under 50#' s
Again, we are experienced hunters, just not expereinced Elk hunters.

2. What to expect for weather at that location?

3. Water Purifiers vs Water Filters?

4. Shooting sticks vs monopod/walking stick?

5. Full frame pack vs fanny pack vs daypack?

Been working out and dieting and lost about 22#' s so far. Still quite a few to go, but really working at it. Walking banks and long steep hills, starting to bike for more cardio, and been on the nordic track as well. Other suggestions? We are also heading to the riding stable for some " conditioning" ;)

Thanks again in advance for the help.

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

Yeah after a 24 mile horse back ride in the Rocky Mountains you' ll never want to see another horse for the rest of your life.[:o];)

You can get a lot of gear in under the 50 pound mark. I am asuming that the " outfitter" is providing things like food, shelter, cots, cooking gear, and things like that.

Make sure you take plenty of and a variety of socks with you and Clothes for all weather conditions. First aid kit especially being on horses for 24 miles. All on your normal hunting gear like knives, sharpeners, rope. Emergency things like water proof matches, space blanket, flagging tape, compas, small mirror.

You probably won' t need the frame pack with an " outfitter" so a fanny or day pack will do. Walmart has ones with a hydration bladder built in so you can carry water with you,

A " shooting stick" can easly be made from a small tree limb if you really want one when you get into camp.

Remember that some things like your knife, one pair of boots, one set of clothes you will wear on your body.

Get a list from your guide of things that they provide so you won' t be duplicating gear for no reason. They may provide things that you would normally provide yourself on a hunt.

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

Good luck on your hunt!

The Lost Canyon Ranch is about 3500 acres, so if you are riding 24 miles, you must be headed out to the BLM/Forest Service area. In 2002 the success rates (1st season) for #70 were 48.7% public, 73.6% private land. In ' 01, 47.2% & 70.2%. In ' 00, 45.8% and 78.5%. For the money you are spending, it seems you would have a better chance on the private land, and could avoid that horse ride.

BigBulls answered most of your questions.

Unit 70 ranges in altitude from 5,000 feet to 12,000 feet. Call the outfitter and find out where your horse ride ends and then you can figure out the right clothes to bring.

Bring a water filter.

You can fit ALOT of gear and be under 50 pounds. Find out what will be provided. Bring a pair of comfortable shoes for camp. Also, go to a store that sells kayaks/canoes and get a Sorbethane (sp?) pad for your saddle.

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

I bowhunted The Gila National Forest a few years ago and I thought I was prepared for the horse ride..I wasn' t!! We had about a 15 mile ride and after about 6 my legs and bottom were sore.If I were you I would ride and ride hard before you go out.As far as gear I would take warm,cold,and rain camo.In the mountains you could get anything from 100deg to 10deg.I would also recomend some baby wipes for cleaning yourself.If you have water around take a bottle of scent free soap,a rag,and a towel.I also would take a bottle of advil and some pepto.The advil is for the elevation headaches and the pepto is for the three dutch oven meals you will be eating a day.Good luck

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

Exercise comes in different types. Some you' ve identified like cardio and strength.

Here are two other types of " exercise" that count a lot:

(1) Feet -- start exercising in your hunting boots; you still have time to get some blisters, remedy the problem, heal them up, and then callous them over -- now your feet are set.

(2) Joints -- start exercising " under weight" (say a 20 pound pack and a 10 pound stick). Joint pain can really put a damper on things -- exercising your way into it can reduce/eliminate it or at least let you know if it is a problem. I would make sure I had some Advil (painkiller/ANTI-INFLAMMATORY) or Naprosin (prescription, start taking it a week before the trip and always with food.) Now your joints are set.

(1) and (2) above -- don' t bet on the use of horses to eliminate the stresses to feet and joints.

Side Note:
When you take off on your 24 mile horse ride make sure you are wearing your long underwear bottoms -- NO MATTER THE TEMPERATURE THAT DAY!

Never Go Undergunned,
EKM

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

Since I' ve been elk hunting before(this is gonna be my first) I can' t help on what to pack in with you. As far as the 24 mile ride in, wear Wrangler 13mwz jeans. They have the thick seam on the outside of the leg. Any jeans that have that thick seam on the inside will turn the insides of your legs into hamburger no matter how many pairs of long johns you have on. When I was growing up, my folks had a cattle ranch in NE, I made the mistake of wearing Levis one day riding. After about 8 hours in the saddle my legs were bleeding. To this day I refuse to wear any jean like that. I haven' t been on a horse in 6 years and my legs hurt just thinking about it. Good luck on your hunt!

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

Ilove,

Hey, I grew up on a ranch in NE also. Always wore Wranglers and never got into a pair of Levi' s -- if that' s the way they make ' em then that would be pure torture!

Assuming you have the " right" kind of pants, the long underwear can delay your saddle sores to much later in the day!

EKM

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

Thanks guys. Like I said, the group are experienced hunters and we are conditioning. The rest of the group is in luck for the sore joints. See, I' m a Chiropractor. As for me, well, someone might get a quick lesson:D. I will have more info tomorrow night after we all get together for a " meeting" ! I am told their will be a list from the outfitter and we are going to try to decide who already has what and what to buy.

I' ve been walking in my Rocky hiking boots so far, but we were talking about switching to the hunting boots soon.

My concern is over altitude sickness as much as anything else. We are debating on leaving a day early to " acclimate" I' m all for this. My background is in sports medicine and I have a good kit that I can break down to the esentials for the trip. I really like the sorbathane idea, thanks:).

Another question. I have a small light fixed 20X spotting scope and have been looking at binoc' s. Is a range finder a necessity? I' m shooting .338, we have 2 guides for the six guys. Will likely be doing some hunting in pairs w/o a guide. I' ve been looking at the ranging binoc' s in the new Cabela' s catalogs. Thoughts?

Thanks again for all the advise.

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

A rangefinder is by no means a necessity. However they are nice to have. I' ve found judging distances in the Rockies to be tricky sometimes. In canyons things are always further than they appear. When its flat things like a mile away at 400 yds. If you have one and the time you can range an animal and then have that much more confidence when its time to shoot. However don' t feel handicapped without one.

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

This what I pack for a 6-day trip
2-Pair boots 3-heavy socks 3-light socks 3-shorts
3-long Jon' s top and bottoms
3-pair jeans (Wrangler)
3-Tee' s - 3 long sleeve wool
3-Heneley' s
1-wool sweater
1-light coat
1-heavey coat
1-wool Pants
Hat,Gloves

As for a day pack I would go with a torso or a good soft side pack.
Water should be at camp so you should be able to fill cantee' s.Bring around 40 round of ammo.Were Nylons to cut down on Saddle sores it helps.BBJ

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

Thanks again. forgive the Typo' s, I using my wifes laptop and I' m not used to the keyboard. We had our meeting last night. The good news is they are going to drive us up about 1/2 the distance to the camp so it' s only going to be a 12-13 mile pack in vs a 24 mile.

Looks like most of the info you all have given is all right on.

This is the question that came up. The hunt is the 11th-15th of October. We are debating leave date. Two guys don' t want to leave til Wednesday and drive hard for the trip. Should be 22-24 hours. Three want to leave on Tuesday morning to get in on Thursday morning, driving 1/2 way and sleeping over night. I personally have not ever been to Colorado or into the mountains and am thinking that the extra day will do me good. Any thoughts would be appriciated.

Thanks!

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

Ryan,
Assuming you are hunting public land during Colorado' s 1st Elk Only season I' d recommend:
(1) Arrive early, acclimation prior to the heavy exertion of elk hunting is VERY helpful and even if you have to leave a day before the season is over, it is FAR superior.
(2) The first two/three days of that season will net you 90% of your results (weather and luck being equal). Plus don' t be surprised if by day 4 that you may have had just about all the fun you can stand.
(3) If you can arrange it to sleep one night on your way driving in at around 6,000 to 7,000 feet and then meet with your outfitter the next morning and then spend that next night at (I' m guessing) 9,000 to 11,000 it will help you lot.
(4) No alcohol and No heavy exertion in the first 48 hours is highly recommended.
(5) Keep water easily available all the time especially in the first 48 hours and drink until you whiz like a race horse.

Side note: There is a herbal remedy (lab tested, double blind pharmacuetical test, the whole bit) that essentially pre-empts altitude sickness.

Even so, arrive early --- that season, the first two days are KEY, KEY, KEY.

Best Regards,
EKM

Arrive early, you can' t hunt if you are sick.

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

Leave with penty of time on your hands,rest would be good for a long days drive and then a long days ride.

Listen to EKM advice,don' t drink or smoke for at least a day.
Pay close attention to your balance first sings of altitude sickness is balance,a quick remide for this is ROLAIDS the antacid,don' t know why but it works.

Next bit of advice is when you get that elk in your scope,breath,breath,squeeze.
Alot of first time elk hunters get to excited and jerk(even old ones),so put' em in the boiler room.Forget what pepole say about breakin them down through the shoulder so they can' t run.Hit' em hard and keep doing so till they are down.

Best of luck and drive safe.BBJ

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

Definetly arrive early and make sure that you are well rested. Like was said above, if you can sleep at altitude for at least one night and try for two before you start huffing it in the mountains it will help a lot. I have gotten altitude sickness once before because I over exerted myself at 11,000 feet. Sometimes it doesn' t take much.

Drink lots of water. When you think you have had enough drink some more.

Eat a lot of protene and carbs. The protene for long lasting energy and the carbs for quick energy.

Try to avoid excessive ammounts of caffine. If you are feeling a little bad it will only make it worse.

One more thing about over exertion, you can' t beat an elk in a race up a mountain.;)

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

Thanks, That was my thought as well. EKM, What is the herbal formula? I' m a Chiropractor and can problebly get ahold of it through a supplier.
I' ve also heard about the rolaids and the water. All good advise. Thanks again.

Next question. I just finished reading an article that suggested that you sight in dead on at 100. I' m shooting the .338 and was planning on 2" high at 200. Comments on this? Thanks!

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

Site in " zero" range don' t really matter as long as YOU know where its going to shoot.
I site all my rifles in " zero" at 200 yards.

Never Go Undergunned
EKM

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

To help avoid altitude sickness start taking a good multivitamin, and calcium, and I take Chromium Picolinate. These will help build up your RBCs. Also there is a prescription medication Diamox they have found that helps prevent Altitude sickness, but I don' t believe its really warranted for the Rockys. Hit the vitamins hard and your blood will be up to the task.

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

Oh, yeah another tip to beat altitude is cut way back on caffiene before and right after you get to altitude, and limit your intake of red meat before. Picked these up in hunting mags over the years. Good luck

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

I sight my rifles to hit 2" high at 100 yards. This gives me the ability to hold center of the elk to about 300 yards and can hold on " hair" to 400 yards. I just have more confidence this way in case I make a yardage misjudgement.

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

first time,
Regarding the herbal remedy its Ginko Biloba.

http://www.high-altitude-medicine.com/hot-topics.html

EKM

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

Thanks.:D

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

Ain' t really warranted for the rockies? I' ve seen fellers so sick they couldn' t ride, walk or even stand. Its an individual thing. Some handle the change better than others. What don' t bother me may give you a brain hemmorage.

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

BBJ - Can you eloborate on how nylons help with saddle sores? Is it that the wranglers make so much fun of you that you just don' t care if your butt hurts?????

I' ve got a 8 day pack trip planned for this fall and no opportunity to ride forehand. I hoping that I won' t get too tore up.

BeaverJack- When you was guiding what would have a said to a hunter that stopped you half way up the mtn to rest cause his pantyhose was ridin up??

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

LMAO!!!!!!!:D:D:D

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

Dreamin'

I know part of your question is in spoof, but wearing something extra under your wranglers (Having the seam on the out side of your leg and smooth on the inside is good advise) will reduce the friction against your skin.

Just like hikers will wear one pair of thin " slippery" socks against the skin and then another pair of " regular ones" over those; the long underwear or the nylons trick(don' t know if I could bring myself to do the nylons one) serve the same purpose.

Saddle sores are NOT like blisters. While taken to the extreme they can bleed, in most cases when you feel saddle sores starting and you manage to get off of that horse and step into the bushes to drop your drawers and see what the hell is going on with your legs (usually inside of knees and thighs) you find it is only slightly reddened. Slightly reddened alright, but when you have four more miles to go, it can light every bulb in your tree before you get there -- you won' t be enjoying the ride or the scenery.

It is definitely worth avoiding.

Best Regards,
EKM

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

this was helpful

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

Good luck on your hunt!!!

I have hunted Unit 70 for the last 3 years, the one thing I can tell you is that you will see both extremes of weather. From 70 to 10 degrees. From sunny to rain, sleet, snow, thunder & lightning. So be ready! None of it ever last long, but it will come.

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

Takes me about 3 days to adjust to the altitude regardless of what I do. Here are some things backed up by research to help. Most are already mentioned:

1)Lots of water. Avoid caffeine! Also, lots of WATER. Did I mention to drink water? This is the most important thing to do. It is easy to forget to drink in the excitment.

2) Antacids (I use rolaids, but others will probably work). 2-4 tablets every 4-6 hours if needed.

3) At least one day at altitude before you start working. 2 is better.

4) I have to take Diamox (prescription) to keep from getting headaches for the first 3 days. Most people don' t need this.

5) For muscle soreness, take ibuprophen. However, a herbal remedy I have used and others I know have used sucessfully is Vit C. If I take 3 grams (yes, 3 grams!) 3 times daily, I do not get sore in my muscles either from hiking or horseback riding. Tired and tight, but the soreness is reduced by about 90%.

Good luck

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

Excellent info. We are looking forward to it. My buddy just got off the phone with the camp and they are setting up right now. 2 bow hunts and one BP at our site and then us. We are getting really excited. They are seeing alot of elk, so the hopes are high. Vitamine C makes sense, as does the H2O. Also starting to take Ginko. Laid off the caffine some, working off of it. And pushing the H2O already. Getting close. 7 weeks to the hunt. Can' t wait!!!!!!!:D:D:D

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

I do alot of pack hunts and rough it quite a bit and one of the best secrets I have found it soo avoid all heavy cots and matts and get a small one person blow up air matress. Down here there' s alot of pools (and of course the ocean) so most stores sell the blow up air matts for pools. They fold down to nothing and only weight a pound. At wall-mart, you might be able to find one actually made for sleeping on. It' s a little more durrable than the pool beds and come with patches in case you spring a leak. Also might be green in color in contrast to the pool beds which are usually flourecent.

That should save you some pounds. And emergency blanket or sleeping bag, allthough loud, and sometimes too hot can also save you some pounds and room in the pack but they aren' t too fun to sleep in.

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

Firsttimer: Although, all of the suggestions are probably healthy for everyday use, I usually start the altitude regieme 48 hours before I leave home and start the water increase the day I am going up to altitude. Don' t know if starting them much earlier helps any.

Glad you are excited. Anticipation is part of the fun. I have only 10 days to go till I leave! Early rifle buck hunt in Colorado. We will be backpacking in to basecamp about 4 miles and hunting at 12,000 plus feet! Should be a great adventure.

Good hunting

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

You' ll give up on them air matresses first time one ends up flat in the middle of the night an' you suffer thru a sleepless night on the cold, hard ground. Happend to me in ' 82. One night was enough. Them pool mattresses are history in my book. 4" thick foam is the most comfortable. Bulky, but you can top load it. I got a thermorest now. But I also used the 1" closed cell stuff.

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

A couple of years ago I had one of the one man mattress' s, it was made for sleepin on not one of them pool things. I' m not a real big guy, I' m about 6' 2" 210lbs., but I rolled over in the middle of a very cold night and I hear POP!!! The thing blew a huge hole out the side and I was on the ground in less than a second. I got up in the cold to monkey around with it and the hole was too big for the patch and I spent not 1 night but 3 on the cold hard ground. That translated into sore muscles in the morning and not good rest. Made for a real tough hunt. I like the self inflating pads, you have to try pretty hard to put a hole in one of those things. They' re not real thick though (mines 2 inches) so a thick foam pad may be better for some of you old timers. ;)

RE: Pack in this fall?
 

I regards to every one about the nylons,I don' t wear them to look pretty.;)
If you are not in condition to ride long miles they are life savers.I wrangled for a few years on those Fancy cattle drives and wagon trains(for forigners).If you put 10-15 miles on them they could' nt hardly walk.So put nylon' s on and it cuts down the friction of your jeans rubbin you raw.You can wear long john' s or anything else for that matter.Nylons just don' t bulk up on you.

It' s only a problem when you get home and you don' t wana take' em off.:D:D