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OK, maybe someone can help end an argument.
I hope, (if i win the draw) that I will be hunting elk for the first time this year. I was planning to use my 12 gauge rifled slug gun. I found a sabot 3 inch magnum slug that gets almost 1800 feet per sec. Is this enough stopping power. My friend insist I will need to get a rifle like a 30-30 or something similiar. Even though I can always use a new rifle, I hate to get another one right now.

Any Help?

Thanks

The Coach

The 12 gague will be a heck of a lot better that the 30-30. The 30-30 would never even enter my mind as an elk rifle.

A 12 gague slug will essentially be like a muzzle loader shooting full bore bullets. You will be limited to 100 yards or less. It will also depend on the exact type and weight of the slug that you would be using. Don' t bring a 30-30 elk hunting.

Do you have any other rifles of your own or that you can borrow?

I will agree with bigbulls on this, but if I were you, I would go buy a new rifle. 30.06 on up. Most elk that I' ve shot while rifle hunting haven' t been inside 100 yards. Your really limiting yourself.

It looks like your on the right side of the argument. a 12 gauge would work better than a 30-30, but if you where to buy a new gun I would get a .270 or up. be sure to mount a good scope on it!;)

I would buy a 300 Mag. if I was in your situation. Good luck.

Not sure where you' re from Coach, but one thing to consider is that most non-resident elk tags cost anywhere from $450 to $750. It would be a shame to come home with that tag in your pocket because you limited yourself with a gun that' ll only shoot accurately about as far as you can throw a baseball. Granted that it' ll probably kill ' em if you can get that shot, but hunting out west more often than not offers up shots that are 150 yds +.
My recommendation would be to buy, beg, borrow or steal yourself an elk gun in .270 or bigger.
Don' t forget to get your hands on that shooter in time to practice with it!!!!

Good luck!

My 2 cents is 30-06 or larger for elk. Leave the shotgun for the birds, an animal as majestic as an elk deserves the respect of a high powered rifle that is very effecient at harvesting them(I' ll include muzzleloaders in this category for the sake of this topic). They are very strong and have earned the respect of a " elk rifle" not a " bird gun" .

If I had to pick between the 2 the shotgun at 20yds would be better than the 30-30 in a hold up. Please don' t bring a 30-30 elk hunting, its like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

I agree with DreaminBoutElk............Except I would opt for a 30.06 or better.(Oh wait a minute...there is no better:D)

Theres no sense in spending that kind of money on a tag and limiting yourself!

You ARE in need of a new rifle and it does not have to break the bank!
I bought my model 70 for $300 then added a scope.It does not shoot " Minute of angle" But it does not miss!!!!!!!!!!!

PRACTICE,PRACTICE,PRACTICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S
And get in shape!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

While he may not be able to take a shot at 300 yards he isn' t that limited. A one ounce (438 grains) slug traveling at 1800 fps is every bit as good as a magnum in line muzzle loader. Winchester also makes their Nosler Partition Gold sabot slug at 385 grains traveling at 1900 fps. These weights and velocites are right on par with most all 45-70 loads available.

I have only taken one elk that was farther than 100 yards and it was only 130 yards out there. With either of these slugs going down range I would have been comfortable taking the shot provided the gun was accurate to that distance. Elk are not that dificult to get within about 100 yards.

Ok, thanks for all the info. Maybe I should clear some things up. I live in Michigan, and thats is where I will be hunting Elk. If I am lucky enough to win the drawing. I also want to point out that Michigan is mostly hardwoods, where I will be hunting. I still think taking everything into consideration, a rifled shotgun with scope would not be a bad way to go. A shot at over 100 yards would be a very rare event in my opinion. Does anyone at all agree with me? I am interested in your opions.

Thanks,

The Coach

That did clear alot of things up. I would use the 12ga, probably not a better choice.

Without question, the 12 gauge will do the job, especially under the conditions you mentioned. elknut1

Well Coach, you must have a good winning percentage if you think you even have a chance at drawing an elk tag here in Michigan! I' ve been applying every year and have yet to draw!

Hey Msuron,

Someone has to get one, it might as well be me. I have some buddies who also applied. If just one of us get a tag, we are all going. It will be a good time either way.

Good Luck to us all!

The Coach

Coach,

Having guided for elk in Michigan I can tell you the 12 guage should get the job done, because it is so darn thick you often can' t see over 75 yards. However, if you see the bull of a lifetime at 120 yards you' re gonna wish you had a 30.06, 300, 300 mag or 348.

If you want to learn a few things about elk and elk hunting come on over and join us on the T.R.' s Tips board.

T.R.

Well I' m going to get alot of flack for this but if it was my tag I would go with the 30-30 with 170gn. loads.I have hunted and havested elk with a 30-30 and have no regrets about using one again.I belive there are better tools to kill and elk so I choose a larger rifle.If this tag is so hard to get Coach I would trade both the rifle and the shot gun in for a new rifle.The 30-30 was one of the first smokless rounds it has killed griz,elk and deer for along time so don' t dout it' s performance.Keep the shots under 150 yds and right behind the front shoulder.By the way are you hunting in the UP.BBJ

Unless things have changed in recent years, the only way to hunt elk in the UP is on a game reserve, probably at Smoky Lake; ' cause there ain' t no wild in the UP, unless they swam across Lake Michigan. [:o]

T.R.

T.R.,I was just wondering where he was hunting,my brother-in-law always talks about the U.P. and all the elk he sees.I thought they wre wild,not penned game.I live in montana and never been there so my bad[&:];)BBJ

I could be wrong, but don' t spraed it around. It will ruin my reputation. ;)

T.R.

I know, I know. There' s a typo. I' m just going to leave it there so Taz and Rack have something to give me heck about. Without me to give a hard time to, they wouldn' t have much fun at all.

T.R.

If a 30-30 is proven for you then I don' t think anyone will say to stop using it. However with all the hunting politics going and the sport being in general danger we need to be more responsible and careful in our approach. I would NEVER recommend a 30-30 to someone who has never hunted elk, and in my opinion niether should anyone else. As stated there are better cartridges and a 30-30 may have killed a lot of Griz and elk but they' ve also maimed more game than any other big game rifle I' ve seen. A 30-30 is only a griz and elk gun in very experienced hands. 100 years ago thats the best they had and more importantly no one was watching. Well everyones watching now and our sport is not growing while anti sentiment is growing, wounded animals in the woods only hurts our cause.

To answer a few more questions. Apparenty it is not leagal at this time to hunt elk in the UP. The only part of the state to hunt is the northern lower. I don' t want to give all of my secrets out, but the best places in the state seem to be along US 32.
Between Alpena and Gaylord, in that general area. If anyone has anyother hot spots for elk in Michigan I would love to hear them.

As someone said, May your arrows fly straight and your bullets be full of powder!

Did I say that right?

Coach

Coach thanks for clearing that up.
Rather be,
I was just stating my opion on the subject.Our society has gone from rural to urban one.We are frowned at for feeding our familys or taking our kidds hunting or showing the how to use a gun or bow instead of going to the supper market. It is not a question of what tools we use as hunters it how well we are woodsmen.Is the bow more efective than the gun maybe.I track and follow wounded animals every that are shot with bows,made by hunters who neglect their duties of being hunters I do the same with the hunters with guns.We as a organization of hunters need not bend to the winds of animal rights,or hide our guns in fear of losing them.We all need to take a stand.If we want to keep our heritige we need to take an active voice and show the pepole aroud us that we are competant in what we are doing.Thats my $.02 worth.
Coach if I were you I would buy a new rifle.Belive me when the time comes and you miss that chance it will haunt you the rest of your life.Happy Huntin;)

If you brother in law is seeing a lot of elk in the UP, then it must be right after he' s been hitting the old moonshine still! LOL

And for you coach, I' d wait until you actually draw that tag before buying a new gun!

Come on msuron, (I hope that' s not pronounced " miss urine" )

We can all use an " excuse" to buy a new gun. :D Most of us hafta justify it to the wife, kids, girlfriend or ourselves. [:o]

If Coach is married, and the wife buys the " justification," then I say go for it. Get the gun already. [:-]

T.R.

Nice jab TR. The 2nd part of the name is my first name. The first part is for Michigan State University.

Agree, nobody should need an excuse to purchase a new gun. But buying one in case you draw an elk tag here (in Michigan), is like buying one because you' re going to win the lottery. I have been applying for one of those elusive tags every year to no avail. I did however draw a tag for GMU 201 in Colorado this year because of the state' s preference point system (and it only took 14 years). My advice to Coach would be to start applying in Western states because you at least have a legitimate chance for a tag!

One more item TR. Really love all the information I get from this site. Keep up the good work.

MSUron

MSURON,

I was obviously hoping you wouldn' t be offended.

Thanks, and I' ll try to keep the semi-relevant, semi-important stuff coming.

If I really wanted to hunt elk, I' d go west young man, go west.

T.R.

Quote:

ORIGINAL: BareBack Jack
Rather be,
I was just stating my opion on the subject.Our society has gone from rural to urban one.We are frowned at for feeding our familys or taking our kidds hunting or showing the how to use a gun or bow instead of going to the supper market. It is not a question of what tools we use as hunters it how well we are woodsmen.Is the bow more efective than the gun maybe.I track and follow wounded animals every that are shot with bows,made by hunters who neglect their duties of being hunters I do the same with the hunters with guns.We as a organization of hunters need not bend to the winds of animal rights,or hide our guns in fear of losing them.We all need to take a stand.If we want to keep our heritige we need to take an active voice and show the pepole aroud us that we are competant in what we are doing.Thats my $.02 worth.

I' m not saying don' t have pride about being a hunter and a gun owner, I know I' m proud and I don' t hide it one bit. I' m saying we should be gunowners and hunters that are as resposnsible as we can possibly be. I used to have the attitude of I' m a hunter and if you don' t like it then stick it where the sun don' t shine. But I' ve learned over time thats a dangerous attitude to have. We should have pride about being a hunter but we have to care how the general public views us within our hunting activities. You' ll find a lot antis actually don' t understand hunting and label us cruel red-necks who shoot everything that moves. They don' t understand management plans and how it benefits the eco-system. Imagine their surprise when I tell them we work very hard at harvesting animals quickly, cleanly and never take a chance at going over the bag limit. And when I tell them that those animals give their lives for us so we buy the best equipment we can afford to harvest them as cleanly as we can. We practice all year long to be accurate with our rifles and bows and we feed our familys with our harvest. And that killing a few saves the many in the winter. Changed a few back that way. Could' ve just called them a ----ing idiot and moved on. The ones that don' t change almost always commend me for my ethics saying most hunters they know aren' t like that. And thats the problem.

A bow and a rifle kill in different ways so thats comparing apples to oranges. Every year people make bad shots on animals and they wind up making an anti out of somebody that sees the animals dead with a bullet hole in it on the side of the road or see it run through a campground with blood all over it. Around here in Salt Lake every year we have animals that die in yards and in front of restaraunts that have been shot. Do you know what side the media takes when these incidents happen? And like it or not about 80% of the population in the US in on the fence as far as hunting. They decide the future. We need to have pride but we also need to be responsible. 30-30 on elk is no longer a elk rifle for the rookie. I' ve tracked elk that others have shot in my party more than 2 miles and up to 2 days before. They usually stop bleeding before they expire and you' re very lucky to find them. That doesn' t always happen but I' ve seen too many wounded animals using that rifle.

As far as bending to the wind of anti-hunters, you will never find me giving them any ground. In fact my stand against a 30-30 for rookie elk hunters is indented to take ammunition away from those hippie types.