Survival - when things don't go "as planned"
 

I have not seen a thread like this for quite some time, so I figured I would put one up, and "remind" everyone what the wilds can bring.

I have been constantly improving, reorganzing, experimenting, practicing, etc. for the last 12 years with different back packs, fire starters, saws, knives, etc, etc, etc to try and get the right combination of "stuff" to be able to "survive" if I needed to...

I am glad I had practiced all that, and it all came together Janurary 3, 2010.

I lion hunt with hounds, and spend most of the winter chasing them, mostly by myself. I have subscribed to "SPOT" but the subscription ran out, so I did not have it that day, but I have since renewed it.

On Jan 3, I decided to go on a "normal" hunt.

I went into a cayon I frequent and found what I thought was a pretty fresh track. I turned all 5 hounds loose, and they took to it like a drug dealer to dirty money. I thought for sure they would have the cat caught in no time. That was at 730 AM. I loaded up my pack, and started after them.

3 hours later, I was over looking a canyon, probably 3 miles from the truck through knee to waist deep snow. I could hear two dogs barking, but could not hear the other three. I decided to go down into the canyon and see why my lead dog was in one spot for so long.

When I was going down, I got my foot caught, tripped, and landed hard with my left knee on a rock. It was not broken, but I thought I was going to pass out.

I managed to get down to my two barking dogs. The pup was trailing deer, and the lead dog had regained the lion track. I followed him for about an hour with the pup in tow. I was still not able to put full weight on my left leg, but I managed to get to where I could see my dog, and took a good break.

Pretty soon, it was close to noon, and I still had not seen the other three dogs, and my lead dog was over a mile away cold trailing that lion.

I could still not put a lot of weight on my leg, so I started for the bottom of the canyon. I got near the flats, and started south towards the other canyon, going back to the truck. At a little before sunset, I was still about 3-4 miles from the truck. I stopped and made a fire under a burned out tree. I heated some water, and ate a couple packs of instant oatmeal. Before it got dark, I checked my bearings with a compass. After I rested for a while, I packed up and started out. I managed for about 1 1/2 hours before I had to start another fire. I got one going, dried out, and started out again.

This time, I only was able to go about 1/2 hour. I found a nice cedar tree with a few dead ones around it and made "camp."

It was 900 PM. At 1030, my lead dog showed up. He trailed me and the pup out a LONG way. I kept a fire going all night, and was able to get a few cat naps along the way.

The next morning, about sunrise, I got my bearings again, and headed out. I was only about 3/4 of a mile from a ranch, and made it there. The hand gave me a ride the last mile or so up to my truck.

At noon, I got two dogs back, not too far from where I turned loose. At 1230, I got my last dog back, and headed home.

I posted this story, because I hope people can learn from others. Fortunately for me, I have practiced with everything I had, and knew how it worked. I maintained a proper attitude, and survived the night. I probably made a couple mistakes, namely walking after dark, and not staying put the first time, but that is 6 one way, half a dozen the other I figure.

I want to also post my gear list so people know what I carry, and can have some ideas.

I figure if one person learns something from this post, and survives because of it, then I have succeeded.

Here is my gear. I had all of this with the exception of the tarp. On that night, I did not have the tarp, but only some throw away ponchos, which I think are junk.


Eberlestock X2 back pack (which will pack a good deal of weight also)
Two nalgene water bottles (bladders in the summer time)
Military canteen cup
Toilet paper
Oatmeal packets in canteen cup
Granola bars
Extra socks
Extra gloves
Extra hoodie
Rope, approximately 50 ft, various diameters
Flashlight, and headlamp, with extra batteries
Compass
Matches
Carbon fire starters with birds nest and flint and steel
Cotton balls soaked in vasoline
Small first aid kit
Medical and electrical tape rolls
Wyoming Saw, Wyomine knife, cutco knife, gerber tool, pocket knife
Emergency blanket, and disposable poncho
5x7 tarp
Water pur tabs (water filter in the summer)
Whistles
Medication

This is my daypack that I carry when hunting anything.

Depending on exactly what I am hunting, I may have a few animal specific items also.

I hope this helps, and maybe the mods can make this a sticky?

Later,

Marcial

Nice post Charlie and glad you made it out ok. This is great reminder of how easily we can find ourselves in a bad situation.

I like you list and for I would add:

GPS

Lighter (Nice to use over matches)

Wax Tipped Matches (I see you had matches but I dip mine in melted candle wax to water proof them)

Radio (I always carry one that picks up weather reports and I figure I may be able to call for help on different frequencies since lots of people carry them now days)

Small Baggy of Treats (In a survival situation some tootsie rolls, small salt and pepper packets to choke down what ever you find to eat, and some water flavoring containing electrolytes, some ibuprofen, and calcium tablets for heartburn, and some pills for diarrhea can go along ways. This one isn't critical bad I think it can make a bad situation a little better and doesn't take up a lot of space.)

Here is somethin you could add to your kit it is water proof and it fits in your pocket plus it takes about two minutes to put together. Here is the link...http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/hunt...vival-kit.html

RBH -
GPS - after I get my AR 15 off of layaway, finish my lion hide from last winter, get a windshield in my truck and get new tires. I figure I have gone this long without one, I can go a little while longer. I am not sure if I really want one, then I will REALLY know how far I walk. It will either make me realize my estimation sucks, or cause me to faint, lol

Lighter - Not fond of them in my pack. I had a zippo but took it out after a while. It leaked and made every thing stink. That was several years ago, and haven't had one since. I was always afraid of a disposable one breaking in my pack.

Wax-tipped matches - I have done that, and kept them in a water proof container, I agree it does work, need to get some wax and do it again.

Radio - only a two way radio if I am hunting with someone. I figure its not worth the extra weight if I am hunting alone. Besides, I can't trust what the weather stations say it is going to do anyway, and the weather hasn't stopped me from going out in the past. I just prepare for the worst. I also have that SPOT which will send my coordinates to people I know will come help if I need it. I have not had it NOT send a message yet. But I still go prepared in case it does fail. I also tell people where I am going, and they know how long I can survive if I have to.

Treats - Thats why I have the granola bars. If I remember I will throw in a snicker's bar or something also, or some jolly ranchers or what have you.


Genesis - I saw that. It doesn't really have much use for me if I have my pack with me. I am putting one together that fits in a little bigger pouch that has a few more things in it and I can put on my belt.

Later,

Marcial

I like the way you think, Charlie. For the first X-number of years of hunting we never worried about getting stuck out for the night. Back then we always hunted as a group of at least 4 or more. Everybody knew where each other was. All of my hunting partners have either moved away or passed away so now I hunt alone. So now I carry a small pack with similar items just in case. Keep up the good habits, it has already paid off for you. Good hunting.

Good reminder;

Question: What do you carry in your pack ?

Answer: Everything I need to spend the night.....................if necessary !

I'm definitely going to bookmark this thread and refer to it when I retire in Utah. There are many backpack journey's in my future.

i hunt in northern QUEBEC [caribou] and use a GPS ...don't care spending the night with wolves and black bears ...last fall i shot a black bear at 25 ft ...too close for comfort... i will not hunt without a GPS ...

I should say that I was not lost. I knew exactly where I was, just was not able to get back to the truck because of the fall, and the distance. I was moving pretty slow. The only thing the GPS would have done is made me realize EXACTLY how far I was. Not sure how having a GPS will save spending a night in the woods?

if you don't know where you are [without a GPS] you will be spending the night in the woods ..if you have your GPS just walk back to your truck ..

Those SPOT things are outstanding, but you have to make sure that there is satelite coverage where you are going to be using it. Up here is Alaska they don't work in certain areas; I don't care what the coverage map says.

On the Altoids survival tin thing, they are a great idea and there is a company out there http://www.lightfighter.com that sells a little survival tin deal and it's better than that commercial SAS survaval tin piece of crap. I have taken lightfighter's to the field, used and abused it and believe it or not it works pretty good.

As for this overall post "Great Job" :barmy:

There are not too many people out there who actually go out and use/play with their survival kists. They just buy the stuff and put them together and hope like heck that they work when they are needed; if they have them at the time of need that is!!

After a lifetime in the Military and being in a few survival type situations myself, I have learned that if you put something into a survival kit then you darn well better know how to use it. It doesn't do you much good to spend all the money and not know how to use it. All you're doing is providing the rescue party with free gear when they find your dead carcass. Can't tell you how many times people have been found with brand new un-used gear with them.

One other thing this post proves is that not all survival situations are the same. Everyone has good ideas for a small kit to have with them when they are out in the woods. I feel like it has a lot to do with your wood craft/skills. Some people are great hunters but know nothing about surviving, Some are great survivors but lousy hunters. Other can do anything either way.

Anyway great post !!!

Nice Post! No one ever knows what can happen when on any type of outing. Whether hunting or on a fishing trip into the back woods. This is a good reminder and thank you for posting this..

I understand everything on your list except the cottonballs soaked in vaseline.......firestarters? Anyway nice story & a very imformative post...thanks.

Yeah, the cottonballs are for firestarters. A couple of them will burn pretty hot to get a fire going.

Later,

Marcial

GPS units are very overrated as of now, the signal doesn't penetrate trees very well yet, and there are too few satellites. While the SV constellation consists of 32 satellites, typically only 24 are in operation at any given time any of which could be malfunctioning. That number is enough satellites to theoretically cover the entire globe with 5 satellites something like 95% of the time. But terrain and trees often reduce the number of usable satellites to 1-2, not enough to determine a location. And the farther north you go, the worse it gets. Here in MT there are typically 20-30 minutes a day that we only have 4 satellites above the horizon, but when you throw in mountains that number is closer to an hour and if you are in a canyon, forget about it. Then if you are under a dense canopy, you will probably pull your hair out trying to acquire a satellite fix.

While a GPS can be a great tool in a survival situation, in my neck of the woods, I would rather rely on a map and compass. That isn't to say that I don't carry my GPS with me, it is a rather handy device, but I won't rely on it for survival. Now if the military would put some better satellites up there, I may change my mind.

I don't hunt off my own land much anymore, but when I do I always carry at least these:
1) Sharp knife
2) Space blanket
3) Magnesium fire starter
4) Compass
5) Whistle
6) GMRS radio
7) Cell phone

I'm certainly no Tarzan, but I know enough to live off of the land in most terrains for short periods.

Good post! Glad you made it back okay. One thing for all to note, cheap little cigarette lighters usually do not work well at all in high altitudes.

:fighting0007:Right on the money!!!

I can't say enough about the ability to read and use both a map and compass. I have 5-7 different compasses and I always have a map of the area I am in, with me. No I don't always carry 5+ compasses, but like the old saying goes. 2 is 1 and 1 is none.

This is a dying art these days, and people do rely on GPS too much.

On the cotton balls: They work pretty good, and they burn slow enough that you can usually start a small fire in most conditions with them.

My feeling exactly on the GPS. I have never tried a disposable lighter at high elevations, but it does make sense they won't work as well. Usually when I start a fire, I will put the carbons in "birds nest" and have a couple cottonballs handy. As soon as the carbon takes off, I throw in a couple cotton balls, and then the small tinder, etc.

As for making the carbons.

Find a shoe polish can, the kiwi brands are the best. Put a small, match diameter hole in the center. Cut up old jeans to fit inside the can. Place about 10 pieces of cotton in the can. Place the can, with the lid tight on an open camp stove outside. The cotton will get hot inside the tin, and burn off all the dies. When the smoke stops, and a flame comes out the top, plug the hole with the match you used to start the stove. When they cool, these are wonderful fire starters. One little spark is all it takes. Place that in a bird's nest, get a spark in the carbon, and blow on it until it lights, being careful not to burn yourself.

As for the bird nests

Use the normal manilla/hemp rope, if you can find it. Separate the rope, and boil it out to the bare fibers. It may take several times of changing water to get to where there is no more oil in the rope. Once the fibers are oil free, make them into little balls about the size of a golfball, and place in your pack.

With the carbons, birds nests, cottonballs, and a striker, you have a firestarter that will start a fire in the worst conditions possible.

Just in case, I also have some steel wool and a 9 volt battery in case the other way fails. I need a 9 volt for my dog tracking box. It only takes putting the steel wool to both contacts to get it hot. Place that in the birds nest and away you go.

I also have matches, but rarely use them because the wind always seems to be blowing where I am at, lol.

Hope this gives some more ideas,


Later,

Marcial

This thread should get a "sticky" so we can all refer back to it.


Thank you !!!

http://www.grannysstore.com/Wilderne...ntandsteel.htm

When I was a Scoutmaster I would always get one of these kits for each new boy that would come into my troop. We never carried lighters, and only 3 matches total. The whole purpose of this was to force the boys to learn that you can make a fire you just have to know how to do it.

The char cloth that you use with flint and steel is very important to have. I always make a bunch and have it with me whenever I am in the woods.

I understand that everyone has their own definition of survival gear and no two lists will be 100% the same but I gotta admit I don't understand the resistance to technology.

The GPS thing really shocks me. While I understand that one should know how to read a map and use a compass "just in case" a GPS is 1000 times better. There is no guess work and you know exactly where you are an how far you have to go. You even know (if your GPS was on) how you got there. If I park my vehicle I mark it and I always mark camp. Even if I fall and break my leg if I can establish communication (two way radio or cell) I can give coordinates to my location. If my friend falls and breaks his leg and I have to go get help I have exact coordinates to his location.

There may be some parts of the world where they aren't accurate or useful but I have yet to find that place. Nothing is perfect and you could easily drop it and break it....I get that....but they are a great survival tool in my opinion and I never leave home without it.

A two way radio is small enough you never notice it in your pack but still could be very useful in getting you out of jam. The weather reports may not always be accurate but heck it's better than not knowing at all. In some situations (especially if you have your GPS :wink:) it may be better to travel and knowing the forecast could help you decide to stop and hunker down or tell you when you have a window of opportunity.

I agree that you shouldn't rely on them to save your life but I still don't get the resistance to it all. Doesn't make sense to me.

I guess it depends on your definition of "high elevation" but at 11,000 ft and less I have never had an issue with a disposable lighter not working at all.

I do carry wax tipped matches in a waterproof container and I carry a magnesium kit as well. But I gotta tell you it always cracks me up when we prepare for our backpack trips and my friends are saying how GPS's are overrated and there is no need to carry a two way radio and disposable lighter only to find when we are 4 miles from the nearest road they are asking me to borrow the lighter to start the fire, they ask me to turn on the radio for weather forecasts, and after hiking all afternoon hunting they want me to guide them back to camp or mark the site of a kill. I've evern used the GPS to track a wounded animal, I would mark last blood. Never ceases to amaze me.

Just because you are in a survival situation doesn't mean the GPS suddenly doesn't work. In the RARE case that it doesn't then you can turn to the map that you also have.

My biggest problem with them is that most people think, I have a GPS, it WILL tell me where I am every time I turn it on, and it WILL be accurate to +/- 100 ft even if they turn SA on. Those people then don't worry about packing a map and compass, and when they can't get a satellite fix, or one of the satellites they are using has a timing error, or the batteries die, they are up a creek without a paddle.

I have seen multipath errors of a 1/4 mile with a survey grade GPS that is accurate to +/- 0.02', if you don't think that your $100 Garmin is subject to the same error, then don't ever go into the woods relying on a GPS because you are one of the people that blindly pushes the "I BELIEVE" button.

You are absolutely right about many you things you say....again I get it. All I'm trying to say is that it's a great tool, not 100%, but not off enough to warrant not trusting it either. Your common sense should kick in if something doesn't look right....umm say like a printing error on your map. In all the years I've been using it in Utah I have never seen it be off more than 100ft or so. I know that because there have been many, many times walking out in the dark that it got me back to camp or the truck. I would've found my way anyway but the GPS got me there faster.

Yes I do carry a map just in case but I just don't think the "error" rate on a GPS is big enough to state that it's overrated insinuating that it's not a great survival tool. IMHO it's a wonderful survival tool.