Cow call, or Bugle?
 

Wich one works the best for u? :)

Neither. Everybody and their frickin' brother packs a Hoochie-Mama and a Powerbugle around the woods anymore. For the most part elk have become very well educated and will often only vocalize at night.

Where do you hunt? I have not noticed this change at all:eek2:

Bugles do help locate the bulls, but rarely get them to come in. Cow calls sometimes can get a bull to come in, but often don't seem to get any response at all.

The area that I've been hunting the last few years has a very large wolf population and that has really limited the vocalization of the elk in that area.

The first year I elk hunted, 2008, I got a bull to respond to a cow call well after the rut and stalked within 80 yds of him before his cows drew him away. The next day I got the same bull to respond to a bugle and took him down.

Last year I hunted the same are but wolves had moved in. There were still elk there but they responded to nothing. The weather was quite different so it's hard to draw conclusions.

I'll carry both, and try cow calling first.

Hmmm...

Well, I have no problem getting the elk to talk. Last season, a friend and I had cow elk tags during the rut. My dad came along. One one particular day, we forgot the bugle, and only had the cow call. The bulls were already bugling down below, so we set up on a little ridge. A couple chirps on that hoochie mamma had a young bull charging into us. He came within a few feet of my friend, and still had all of the bulls bugling.

A couple days later, I walked into the middle of a timber patch. There was a wallow in their that seemed pretty active. That was about 10:30 in the morning. I let out a scratchy bugle, and had an immediate response. A couple more bugles later, on each side, and I had a 300 inch 6 point inside 20 yards.

Later that day, we saw a small herd of elk on a knob. There were about 30 cows and calves, and one herd bull. He was strutting his stuff and keeping the girls inline. If one would wander off, he would get over, and bugle and get her back with the herd. I snuck in under his distraction and got to inside 50 yards, missed a head shot with my muzzle loader, and then connected with the lead cow at about 100 yards.

With elk, it all depends on what they are doing, and what you are doing. Generally, if I want the elk to come to me, I cow call. If I am going to the elk, and need to figure out where they are at, I bugle.

With that 6 point bull. It would be like me walking into your house, and saying to your wife, "honey, I'm home, lets go upstairs." You WILL get a response if there is a bull in their that has cows.

Later,

Marcial

Montana, mostly the central part of the state, but I've hunted the west/southwest portions of the state plenty too. Your original question was very broad so obviously it doesn't apply everywhere, but from what I've found calling usually isn't all that helpful. I honestly think more often than not hunters do themselves more harm than good by wandering around the woods tootin' on their elk calls. My grandpa was a hunting guide in northern Wyoming back in the 60's and the old calls he had from back then were almost comical sounding, but they were highly effective. A lot of the areas I've hunted recently you can stay up at night and listen to the elk make all kinds of noise, and by daybreak they've gone completely silent. Just my two cents.

Best to carry both and be efficient with both. I think the guy that is very good with either will get more responses than the guy that we all hear every year and immidiately can recognize that his calls are human made. Some guys certainly should leave the calls in the truck.

No doubt about it, the bugle reigns supreme. I called in multiple bulls last year, all but one with the bugle. The simple truth is, I believe 90% of the elk callers out there have no idea what they are saying. I can't count how many times I have heard a guy doing a lost cow call, heard a bull respond and he continues to use the same call. Once a bull answeres, I switch to an excited cow call and start closing the gap, he'll come in. Bugling has a reputation of sending a bull packing, but the truth is, a bull is a herd bull for a reason, he is willing to fight, and fight he must to retain is crown as herd bull. I have seen nasty fights, I have seen blood and hair in torn up areas were to bulls got into it. As far as bulls being vocal only at night, thats absurd, we are hearing and calling them constantly. I have heard many bulls bugling all the while wolves are howling in the area. They bugle as much today as 15 years ago.

Apparently I'm absurd, but that has been my observation time and again. Obviously it doesn't apply everywhere because elk act differently everywhere based on hunting pressure, natural predation levels, bull to cow ratio, moon phase, weather conditions, habitat type, blah, blah, blah.

If you really want to call elk then it's best to get proficient with both cows calls and bugles and then use appropriate restraint in their use. More often than not people call too much when they'd be better off keeping their trap shut, and that holds true more often than not for calling any type of wildlife. One thing I have noticed over the years is that it elicits much more of a response if you bugle at a bull the same way he sounds. If he has a high pitched squeal with three chirps at the end, then do the same back at him. If he has a raspy growl with no chirps, then it's best to follow suit. If anybody tells you they can judge a bull by his bugle alone they're completely full of it. I've simultaneously watched a dinky raghorn let out the nastiest red stag roar, while in the adjacent valley a 380 bull was throwing out the highest pitch squeal I've ever heard out of a bull. Voice is certainly no indication of size. I intend to stick to my original statement though. If I'm going out after wapiti I'll probably have both calls with me, but I probably won't use them unless it's an absolute last resort. That's just my two cents.

AK Jeff-----I think you are spot on. CB

Sex sells....................but some Competition never hurts !!!

Frankly Jeff, I find it hard to believe that has been your observation time and again, because it is not accurate. I have hunted all over Montana, and spent many nites on the mountain for many years, and that has never been what I experienced. There are up and downs depending on the estrus cycle, but they always sing. As far as sounding just like the bull you are bugling to, thats great for videos and what not, but situational calling is much better. To be an effective caller, one needs to understand the situation they are in, what the bull is saying, and what picture you painting for that bull. If you can master that, you can call in nearly any bull, even herd bulls. To say that calling is largely ineffective is ridculous, sorry man, thats the way I feel.

I agree:s4:

Frankly....I'm with AKJ on this ......and Muley you pretty much said the same thing.It's about proficiecy with your call. I've called in bull's with a bugle.............way back in. But in any area that I've hunted that has a bit of pressure and guy's calling that shouldn't be calling. You're done............At best a cow call will help in these areas. I mainly stalk and use a call to get a shot not create one. But that is Colorado. Montana is a little less populas.
In my hunt area I'd go for the cow call.
GLOB

Well, what I really take exeption to with AK, is two statements, one that calling is not very effective in his first post, and two that they only bugle at night. One thing I've learned is that elk speak the same language where ever you go. I am not aginst cow calling. Last year I had a nice bull on a ridge doing some real light locates. I can't tell you why, but I felt like he had just been whoopped, so I lightly cow called for an hour and a half, he slowly came in and my hunter got an arrow in him. If I had bugled he would have beat the trail. However, most of the bulls I call into bow range, 150+ over the last ten years, are called with the bugle. The bottom line is to use both, but tailor your calling to the situation at hand. I feel that bugling is been sold down the river, it is still more effective calling. Running around cow calling in the early season is nuts, bugle your butt off, run and gun, they will respond. Sure you can over call, but is that worse than undercalling? Think about that for a minute. The best thing you can do is learn to adopt to the situation at hand, that is why I promote situational calling. Learn to understand what message you are sending to that bull, and how he will respond to it. I study elk, read books, listen to stories, consider post that folks make, I still think of myself a student, but I've learned a few tricks along the way. I few years ago I set a guy up and the bull hung up at 70 yards, wouldn't budge. I did the sweet talk/bull intercept call you name it, wouldn't budge. I run down to the guy and tell him I am going to do a "see ya" bugle at the top of the ridge. Well I stomp up the slope making a ton of noise, and when I get to the top I do a fading locate bugle then stomp over the ridge. About 5 minutes later a 5x5 comes out of the timber, nose down, looking to 'smell' the bull that is gone. My hunter missed. I learned this after watching bulls move in after the other bull left, and hearing bulls we bumped do one last bugle after they were well out of range. we actually call it an FU bugle.:s2:

You're right dude, I just made that all up because it makes for such a great story. Obviously I was just hearing a bunch of really loud coyotes all those nights year after year that I stayed up listening to elk...I mean coyotes, by the light of the moon.

Bottom line is the original question was just asking for a matter of opinion. It was really no different than all the "what caliber is best for" and "what's the best camo pattern for" and "where's the best place to" and "atv or hike" or "blonde or brunette" questions that get thrown out at nauseum... You have your opinion and I have mine. I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

Quite frankly I have never called elk so perhaps my input means nothing at all. I have called alot of moose however and for some it will be the same question as this one. I find when calling the moose it depends on what season you are hunting them in. They have a time when they are challenging other bulls just before the rut kicks in. I find a bull call works best during this time of the hunt. Then when the bulls are joining the cows a cow call works best and the bull most of the time ignores the bull call. When using a bull call every time a bull answered I would call back to it. Trying to mimmick the sounds the bull is making. But like I have stated I have no experience hunting elk. I would just think it would close to the same thing how ever...

As the years go on I am getting to the point that my bugle barely gets enough use to brush the dust off of it from year to year.

For me and the way I call elk I will use a bugle to locate or when I get between a bull and his cows. I only challenge a bull when I'm in real close.

In all other situations I will use different variations of cow calls. I have a hoochie mama in my pocket too but I don't use it whole lot. I mostly use the reed calls and the diaphram calls to do lost cow, normal mew, calf sounds, and estrus sounds. I mostly use the hoochie (one in each hand) along with a mouth call to sound like several cows and generate excitement. The key is understanding their language and knowing how to respond to elk that are talking to you. Understanding stage of the rut and other factors such as weather are important as well, and it's not an exact science and sometimes takes trying several different things to see what will work on a given day.

Having said that I don't rely on calls to close the deal and bring elk all the way to me (I'm not saying anyone else does). I use them as a tactic to get close. 90% of the time when elk are responding to my calls I am closing the distance on them and using the calls as a way to stalk rather than just bringing them all the way to me. Even though every situation for me isn't successful, and sometimes I say the wrong thing, I have a lot of success calling elk in the areas I hunt.

As a side note in the areas I hunt I hear a lot of hunters bugling and a few of the standard cow calls. But I rarely hear someone out there doing good estrus and general herd sounds. In other words if you get proficient using mouth calls I think you will be in the minority and be able to do what most hunters aren't doing.

I don't disagree with all that your are saying, just some.:s2: I think perhaps I am giving my perspective from somebody who hunts in the interior back country as opposed to some who hunt closer to the roads. I agree that there is a difference there. Elk, in their natural state, are different then pressured elk, no argument from me there. I rarely if ever hear other hunters anymore. As I stated, I still consider myself on student in the greatest university of them all!

I've had my best luck with just chirping or a locating call on a reed, moose grunts work well ,too. I don't chirp a lot, couple or three times in 1/2 hr. Locating call can bring a bull from quite a distance, if u get an answer, try a loud chirp back, add another short locating call. Then I stay put and shutup until I can hear or see the bull, I will chirp again in about 1/2hr if I haven't heard anything else. Very often they will come in dead quiet, or with real quiet chirps/grunts. Sometimes a screech on a bugle will get him PO'd, a bigger bull will usually answer a chirp and a short screech, but, that takes two people about 30-40 yds apart to work it. Screeches will usually spook a smaller bull, cuz they don't want to get wailed on. Bugles seem to make a herd bull gather up the girls and exit,unless you are in the cows,in which a screech will usually get him really torqued. It's tough to get there though, cows have radar, sonar, spy satellites, infra red,fleer and the wind will always change directions at the wrong time.
Had a buddy get sprayed on by a 5pt with the chirp & screech routine, he still stinks.

Cool! thanks for the advice guys!:)

They both get over used forsure!