1eyedfish

I do rambble sometimes sorry Bj , &yall....... but what about Europe?

They use to have good elk too & guns too?

Some of the north lands still finland, norway etc etc

Tim Buma

American elk are the only members of the North American deer family that have upper canine teeth. These teeth, found in both males and females areoften referred to as " ivory teeth" or " tusk teeth." They are not ivory and they do not presently serve any function. These stubby, rounded upper canines are carry-overs from the pre-historic ancestors of theAmerican elk. Elk ancestors had tusks which pro-truded outward from the upper jaw over the lower jaw and served a defensive purpose. For an excellent treatise on the North American elk, that contains a complete description of the evolution of elk " ivory teeth" including the historical use of these teeth as ornaments and trade items by Native Americans see: Elk of North America, Jack T Ward and Dale E. Toweill,eds., Stackpole Books.

(The University of Arizona Cooperative Extension)

You learn something every day.....

BeaverJack

Books? Who the hell reads books when they want the truth? If it ain' t knowed by the old farts at the local bar, or the filthy cook in elk camp with a hunnert seasons ahind him, I ain' t buyin' it. Here' s some trivia from my neighbor' s grandad: Did you know elk ain' t really elk? Elk is the geman name for moose. So, any book about american elk thet ain' t about moose is wrong from the get go, and not worthy of knockin' the dust off the cover.

1eyedfish

Sometimes books have really good things in then & old guys at the bar bs& spin the blarny a bit. That ol cook should watch the racoon more& see how he washs his hands& food before eating etc.

But some books yer right - aint worth the paper there printed on
A few- like those by the Clintoons lately come to mind.

camp tp , but i dont know if i want those 2 close to my hiney.

Tim Buma

Hey B.J. I' d say Jack Ward and Dale Toweill have done their time in the Elk camp, and maybe they' ve been in the odd bar or two, you' ll only know once you' ve read the book.
But you are right about the " Elk" thing.
Wapiti is the correct name isn' t it?
Means something like White butt or brown butt or the like.
Elk are just europeon moose.
Wapiti are a sub-species of Red Deer. They' re similar animals, just the Wapiti is a bit bigger.
Have you ever hunted Reds?

Zelazny

BeaverJack - We don' t live in a Democracy, and if the Electoral College didn' t exist your home state of Montana was it ? would never see any Presidential candidates, nor would have this country. Why ? Because the Liberal cities would control every election based on sheer numbers. No, the EC has its place and was brilliantly designed. I use to be anti-EC, after the 2000 election I learned why it is.
As for Clinton, he lied under Oath, the very core of our Judicial System and he got away with it. That will never be right, regardless of how anyone cuts it.

I have 5 or 6 sets of elk " ivories" - I love ' em for what they are and the memories they represent. Very cool, just not really ivory.

trmichels

According to my World Book Encyclopedia, ivory comes from the tusks of elephant and walrus, the teeth of the hippopotamus, and the horn of the Narwhal (horned whale). Although these are all variations of teeth, evidently ivory is different from a normal tooth because it bends without breaking.

Therefore, technically speaking, elk canine teeth or ' " ivory" is probably not ivory.

The following is from the Canadian Wildlife Services website.

" Unlike other deer, elk have upper canine, or " eye," teeth. These teeth are a hangover from earlier evolutionary stages and now serve no apparent purpose. Their smooth rounded surface has made them attractive as jewellery. In the 1800s many elk were killed just to obtain the canine teeth."


The name " wapiti" is Shawnee Indian for " white rump." The European animals called " elk" are actually Eurasian moose.

North American elk (Cervus elaphus spp.) are subspecies of the European red deer (Cervus elaphus). The Swedish red deer (Cervus elaphus elaphus) is the " type species," all other red deerare considered supspecies of this species. Some people now refer to the some of the red deer of Russia/Mongolia/China as wapiti.

Here is an excerpt from my Elk Addict' s Manual.

History
Deer first appear in fossil records around 13 million years ago in Eurasia. However, elk do not appear in the North American fossil records until about 120,000 years ago, when they crossed the Bering land bridge. Once on the North American continent they moved south and east. Around 70,000 years ago they were isolated into four different populations. One of these was found in the Alaska/Yukon region, one in the Washington/Oregon coastal region, another in western California, and the largest population east of the Cascade and Sierra Nevada Mountains, extending to the Appalachian Mountains and into southern Canada and northern Mexico. The Washington/Oregon population later evolved into two different subspecies, the Olympic (Roosevelt) elk of the southwestern British Columbia, Washington, Oregon and northwestern Californa; and the Tule Elk of central California.

As the Wisconsin Glacial age ended around 10,000 years ago, a population of elk was isolated from the large eastern population and became the now extinct Merriam’s Elk of Mexico and the southwestern United States.

As the Great Plains evolved the remainder of the eastern populations became separated again. One of these populations may have evolved with the Great Plains to become the Manitoba Elk. At the same time the eastern population was separating into two more groups, those of the eastern deciduous forests became the now extinct Eastern Elk; those of the western coniferous forests became the Rocky Mountain Elk. These six subspecies inhabited most of North America when the Europeans first arrived.

T.R.

BeaverJack

Very good TR. Nice bit of natural history. One thing is I thort " wapiti" was a shoshone word, instead of shawnee? But other ' an that, yer invited to the local bar in my town anytime. Jus' wear a gray beard so everbody thinks yer someone' s granpa.

121553

Very good TR, you taught this ole dog some things I didn' t know, its great when one talks of facts as to those that B.S.' s.
Zelazny, don' t degrade my state of Montana by saying BJ is from here, ... we kicked his arse out long ago. Bobby