please check this out if you are going to use an outfitter!!
06-11-2003, 09:47 AM
#11
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 604
RE: please check this out if you are going to use an outfitter!!
Sorry but I need to offer my two cents on this. To say that outfiters need to have a say in this site just to even it up is a little silly. The outfitters have their advertizing which is 100% pro outfitter. They never list negitive comments in their adds.
Now in saying that, I will let you know alittle about me. My dad guided fishing for over 15 years (retired now) with his own boat and business. The best advertising he got was the word of mouth. HE worked very hard to please every customer. He even kept the daily (per trip) catch records which he made available to anyone. One dissatisfied customer can spoil any guides reputation.
Now back to this " Outfitter Review" site, this site make it easy for both satisfied and dissatisfied customers to voice their opinions. You, as the person seeking responses about an outfitter must take into count that most of the time it will be only the dissatisfied that will voice their opinion. Use the site to gather information. Information is just information for which you way all the information you have gather and then make an informed choice. Is that not what we all want to make, a truely INFORMED CHOICE.
Now in saying that, I will let you know alittle about me. My dad guided fishing for over 15 years (retired now) with his own boat and business. The best advertising he got was the word of mouth. HE worked very hard to please every customer. He even kept the daily (per trip) catch records which he made available to anyone. One dissatisfied customer can spoil any guides reputation.
Now back to this " Outfitter Review" site, this site make it easy for both satisfied and dissatisfied customers to voice their opinions. You, as the person seeking responses about an outfitter must take into count that most of the time it will be only the dissatisfied that will voice their opinion. Use the site to gather information. Information is just information for which you way all the information you have gather and then make an informed choice. Is that not what we all want to make, a truely INFORMED CHOICE.
06-11-2003, 11:10 AM
#12
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 7,571
RE: please check this out if you are going to use an outfitter!!
Besides if posting reviews is so important to a outfitters business then he would encourage people to post their happy reviews and follow up on it.
I know that there are some bad oufitters out there, and I' m not trying to defend them. But there are also a lot of good ones out there can can be hurt by a site like this, especially without not being able to add their two cents.
Remember this, References will ONLY BE GIVEN TO YOU of guys who scored on a hunt.
You, as the person seeking responses about an outfitter must take into count that most of the time it will be only the dissatisfied that will voice their opinion.
One dissatisfied customer can spoil any guides reputation.
GOD BLESS AMERICA!
06-11-2003, 11:24 AM
#13
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cedar Valley Utah
Posts: 977
RE: please check this out if you are going to use an outfitter!!
Someone else brought up ebay and the feedback system. I don' t find it a burden to leave feedback and certainly asking someone to do it is not an inconvience. Its smart business, they are still running a business. Now if the client declines for whatever reason then so be it. But if a business owner is afraid to even ask then his business has a lot more to worry about then just a few negative reviews. Competition is tough, cowboy up!
My only point from the beginning is it should all even out in the end. Those with the highest ratio of good to bad reviews will be regarded as the best outfitters. They give you a very biased opinion in their advertising so there should be a place where hunters can freely voice there opinion.
The point about an informed decision hit the nail right on the head. I bought an ATV a few years ago and I read all the literature I could find. Including online forums and magazines where the manufacturer had no chance to respond. Thats the nature of business everywhere. Fair or not every business gets reviewed on some type of forum where they have no opportunity to respond. Thats how a consumer gets info from real people however you still have to sift through the crap.
My only point from the beginning is it should all even out in the end. Those with the highest ratio of good to bad reviews will be regarded as the best outfitters. They give you a very biased opinion in their advertising so there should be a place where hunters can freely voice there opinion.
The point about an informed decision hit the nail right on the head. I bought an ATV a few years ago and I read all the literature I could find. Including online forums and magazines where the manufacturer had no chance to respond. Thats the nature of business everywhere. Fair or not every business gets reviewed on some type of forum where they have no opportunity to respond. Thats how a consumer gets info from real people however you still have to sift through the crap.
06-11-2003, 02:40 PM
#14
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 7,571
RE: please check this out if you are going to use an outfitter!!
Someone else brought up ebay and the feedback system.
From my post:
You will find that a lot hunters are not computer literate and outfitters will not burden or inconvience them.
. I don' t find it a burden to leave feedback and certainly asking someone to do it is not an inconvience.
06-11-2003, 02:53 PM
#15
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cedar Valley Utah
Posts: 977
RE: please check this out if you are going to use an outfitter!!
You should give up Bob because I' m finding it very hard to have an intellegent conversation with you. You pick apart my posts without reading the whole thing.
I said its good business to ask clients to leave feedback. Then I said " if a client declines for whatever reason then so be it." How do you know if someone is computer illiterate until you ask, please tell me you don' t assume.
And no on ebay you DO NOT have the opportunity to respond to negative feedback. Sorry. You have the ability to retaliate and leave negative feedback on someone else but they cannot respond to it on their own feedback rating. I guess if you want to set up a system where a Outfitter can check out hunters before they take them on, thats a different discussion. But last I looked outfitters aren' t all that picky as long as the check clears.
Come on, I may be wrong but please give me a good arguement. Not picking apart my posts and handing out childish insults.
I said its good business to ask clients to leave feedback. Then I said " if a client declines for whatever reason then so be it." How do you know if someone is computer illiterate until you ask, please tell me you don' t assume.
And no on ebay you DO NOT have the opportunity to respond to negative feedback. Sorry. You have the ability to retaliate and leave negative feedback on someone else but they cannot respond to it on their own feedback rating. I guess if you want to set up a system where a Outfitter can check out hunters before they take them on, thats a different discussion. But last I looked outfitters aren' t all that picky as long as the check clears.
Come on, I may be wrong but please give me a good arguement. Not picking apart my posts and handing out childish insults.
06-11-2003, 04:50 PM
#16
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: hartland wi USA
Posts: 116
RE: please check this out if you are going to use an outfitter!!
I second that on bobs posts. Here, i will pick a little myself.
Quote...True, but you will find that most outfitters will not ask clients to do things like that. You will find that a lot hunters are not computer literate and outfitters will not burden or inconvience them. I talked to my outfitter last night and he said that he would like to ask his clients to do something like that, but he never actually would because of the intrusion or inconveinience.
What???? do you think that only computor literate hunters will only leave negitive reviews??
Quote...quote:
Remember this, References will ONLY BE GIVEN TO YOU of guys who scored on a hunt.
That is not true. unquote. Maybe, but the odds are so slim of an unsuccesfull hunter you can cut a tomato with it. References can be relitives, friends, old hunting buddies, or guys who scored on one hunt on a higher end hunt, but then used as a reference for a totally different property lease that sucks.
Quote..quote:
You, as the person seeking responses about an outfitter must take into count that most of the time it will be only the dissatisfied that will voice their opinion. unquote. Bull, go read a bunch of reviews from different outfitters and you will see more lean towards the satisfied side. Even a huge outfitter like USO has pretty much a great feedback as much as i dont like his practice, i have to say he runs a good show according to his feedback.
Bottom line is this, represent your hunts honestly, and give your client what he expects from what you told him and there wont be as many unsatisfied customers.
From all the outfitters i looked up in there i have to say the feedback is almost always positive for most guys. so how would you explain that Bob?
Guys shell out a lot of cash and sometimes , all too often get lied and cheated. Sometimes the client is just a lazy hunter who should have bought a high fence hunt. But when you hear about the same complaint from different guys from different year on subjects such as " i paid for a one on one and saw 3 other hunters at all times on different hilltops, they had too many hunters" there is something wrong.
Sounds like you may have some skeletens in your closet
Quote...True, but you will find that most outfitters will not ask clients to do things like that. You will find that a lot hunters are not computer literate and outfitters will not burden or inconvience them. I talked to my outfitter last night and he said that he would like to ask his clients to do something like that, but he never actually would because of the intrusion or inconveinience.
What???? do you think that only computor literate hunters will only leave negitive reviews??
Quote...quote:
Remember this, References will ONLY BE GIVEN TO YOU of guys who scored on a hunt.
That is not true. unquote. Maybe, but the odds are so slim of an unsuccesfull hunter you can cut a tomato with it. References can be relitives, friends, old hunting buddies, or guys who scored on one hunt on a higher end hunt, but then used as a reference for a totally different property lease that sucks.
Quote..quote:
You, as the person seeking responses about an outfitter must take into count that most of the time it will be only the dissatisfied that will voice their opinion. unquote. Bull, go read a bunch of reviews from different outfitters and you will see more lean towards the satisfied side. Even a huge outfitter like USO has pretty much a great feedback as much as i dont like his practice, i have to say he runs a good show according to his feedback.
Bottom line is this, represent your hunts honestly, and give your client what he expects from what you told him and there wont be as many unsatisfied customers.
From all the outfitters i looked up in there i have to say the feedback is almost always positive for most guys. so how would you explain that Bob?
Guys shell out a lot of cash and sometimes , all too often get lied and cheated. Sometimes the client is just a lazy hunter who should have bought a high fence hunt. But when you hear about the same complaint from different guys from different year on subjects such as " i paid for a one on one and saw 3 other hunters at all times on different hilltops, they had too many hunters" there is something wrong.
Sounds like you may have some skeletens in your closet
06-11-2003, 07:10 PM
#18
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 604
RE: please check this out if you are going to use an outfitter!!
All in all, people need to realize that there will be clients that can never be satisfied with their hunt. They will complain no matter what or how hard the guide worked on thier behalf. They figure that they paid their money, thefore it should happen the exact way they want. Most clients will understand, weither it is hunting or fishing, there will be times that no animals or fish will be got. All we can ask for is an honest effort from the guide.
When you are gathering all of your info for your informed choice of what guide to use, always remember that there will always be a few of those never to be satisfied clients. Just like there are a few guides that are only out there to make money and do not care about the hunters or the wildlife they are suspose to hunt. When I research for information on something, I prefure sites that are customer generated reports. You might ask why, but I do because I feel magizine articles or reports are not free from bias. They recieve money from many for advertizing and things like that. But what I do with the public reports is basicly use the " olympic ruling" ..... that is drop the worst and the best reports and rely on the others. It may not be perfect, but it works for me.
When you are gathering all of your info for your informed choice of what guide to use, always remember that there will always be a few of those never to be satisfied clients. Just like there are a few guides that are only out there to make money and do not care about the hunters or the wildlife they are suspose to hunt. When I research for information on something, I prefure sites that are customer generated reports. You might ask why, but I do because I feel magizine articles or reports are not free from bias. They recieve money from many for advertizing and things like that. But what I do with the public reports is basicly use the " olympic ruling" ..... that is drop the worst and the best reports and rely on the others. It may not be perfect, but it works for me.
06-11-2003, 08:04 PM
#19
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: hartland wi USA
Posts: 116
RE: please check this out if you are going to use an outfitter!!
Just did some more research to back my findings of the huntinfo website. I looked at the Colorado outfitter registration website and found out some things.....
For instance, the outfitter i went with the outfitter permit is in the wifes name, HMMMM why i wondered. Did a little more searching and found this under the hubbies name and by the way, you will never talk to the wife because basicly he is running his biz under her name for some reason, maybe this is why..
Address Parker, CO 80134
Phone Number
License Number ORI-432
License Type Outfitter Individual
License Status Surrendered
License First Issued July 1, 1988
Last Renewal Date January 1, 1994
License Expiration Date October 4, 1995
Doing Business As XXXXXXXXXX, GUIDE & OUTFITTER
Board or Program Actions 10/04/1995 Fine to be Paid
10/04/1995 Voluntarily Surrendered
12/01/1994 Probation Completed
10/28/1994 Active Suspension
06/15/1994 Active Suspension
06/15/1994 Fine held in Abeyance
06/15/1994 Probation
06/15/1994 Probation
06/15/1994 Fine to be Paid
01/08/1994 Probation Completed
03/09/1990 Suspension Completed
01/09/1990 Active Suspension
01/09/1990 Probation
I X' ed out his name , but i think this shows that my outfitter reviews seem to follow suit with this.
Anymore questions Bob?
For instance, the outfitter i went with the outfitter permit is in the wifes name, HMMMM why i wondered. Did a little more searching and found this under the hubbies name and by the way, you will never talk to the wife because basicly he is running his biz under her name for some reason, maybe this is why..
Address Parker, CO 80134
Phone Number
License Number ORI-432
License Type Outfitter Individual
License Status Surrendered
License First Issued July 1, 1988
Last Renewal Date January 1, 1994
License Expiration Date October 4, 1995
Doing Business As XXXXXXXXXX, GUIDE & OUTFITTER
Board or Program Actions 10/04/1995 Fine to be Paid
10/04/1995 Voluntarily Surrendered
12/01/1994 Probation Completed
10/28/1994 Active Suspension
06/15/1994 Active Suspension
06/15/1994 Fine held in Abeyance
06/15/1994 Probation
06/15/1994 Probation
06/15/1994 Fine to be Paid
01/08/1994 Probation Completed
03/09/1990 Suspension Completed
01/09/1990 Active Suspension
01/09/1990 Probation
I X' ed out his name , but i think this shows that my outfitter reviews seem to follow suit with this.
Anymore questions Bob?
06-12-2003, 07:06 AM
#20
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 7,571
RE: please check this out if you are going to use an outfitter!!
schmalts, why would I have any questions for you. That is public information and is fact instead of opinion. I would also check on any potential Outfitter to make sure that they have a current registration or license. My main point in other posts was just voicing my opinion on the original site. You may also want to check if the outfitter is in good standing in any Outfitting Organizations, and if they are hunting public land check with forestry to make sure that they have the permits required for the advertised land that you will be hunting.
Sure it is a personal thing on what people want to use for information in determining and choosing outfitters. I just think that the original site mentioned has the potential of hurting a good outfitters reputation and I think that it is important for others to at least realize or think about that before praising the site. Personally, if I had a problem with an outfitter, and before I made any attempt to bash an outfit publically, I would personally contact the outfit and let them know my problem and try to find a resolution to it with the outfitter. It would be in the best interest of the hunter and outfit to resolve anything before any public bashing happens. I' m just not convinced that some people actually do this before making a public bashing. I also have a hard time believing everything I read, whether it be a person that I don' t know writing on the web, or an advertisement. There are even people I do know that I don' t always believe. I guess that I try to be a fair person and I like to hear both sides of a story before making any decisions. That is why I do not like that site, and that is my personal opinion. I now realize that I am alone in this opinion and that is OK by me.
P.S. Just for the heck of it I tried to contact the person that wrote the bashing on the outfitter that I used and guess what. Couldn' t do it. The originator of the bash is just another nameless person lost in cyberspace.
Sure it is a personal thing on what people want to use for information in determining and choosing outfitters. I just think that the original site mentioned has the potential of hurting a good outfitters reputation and I think that it is important for others to at least realize or think about that before praising the site. Personally, if I had a problem with an outfitter, and before I made any attempt to bash an outfit publically, I would personally contact the outfit and let them know my problem and try to find a resolution to it with the outfitter. It would be in the best interest of the hunter and outfit to resolve anything before any public bashing happens. I' m just not convinced that some people actually do this before making a public bashing. I also have a hard time believing everything I read, whether it be a person that I don' t know writing on the web, or an advertisement. There are even people I do know that I don' t always believe. I guess that I try to be a fair person and I like to hear both sides of a story before making any decisions. That is why I do not like that site, and that is my personal opinion. I now realize that I am alone in this opinion and that is OK by me.
P.S. Just for the heck of it I tried to contact the person that wrote the bashing on the outfitter that I used and guess what. Couldn' t do it. The originator of the bash is just another nameless person lost in cyberspace.