My friends Moose spoiled In a day????
 

Ok guys this is the story my friend and his group go hunting and the first night out my friend shoots a nice bull at 270 yards. So the moose is down and him and his dad do a not so good job of guting the moose. Meaning they left blood in it and maybe even some fecal matter.
He gets to camp tells everyone to go and get it but they all say its cold enough (-2c or 30)for leaving it till morning.So they get the moose in the morn and it doesnt look that good, its liver has white streaks in it and the meat is soft to the knife. They get it to camp and hang the animal they do not rinse the inside, and do not put pepper in it before they cheese cloth it. So that day it starts to get hot like about 60-65 degrees the flies are on the cheese cloth like theyre on [bleep] and the animal starts to smell a bit,about 24hrs from time of kill. That night the temps stay warm like 45-55 degrees and the next morn they take the animal to the freezers but its smelling pretty bad now, so now after 36-40 hours this anomal smeels bad, they put in freezer for about 3 days and when leaving they go to pick it up, so here is where it gets fun!!! All the guides are saying an animal will not spoil in that time frame cause they have never seen it, so their conclusion was it must have been dead a few days before! And he collected a dead animal. So now part of the group heres this and they are all screaming at each other and calling the guy a liar and freak!!!
So what do you guys think of this story?
Is it possible for the animal to spoil so fast?
Has anyone had an experience wher their animal spoils fast?
thanks
Elmer

I see a few possibilities

a. "not so good a job cleaning" actually means they didn't clean it out at all.

b. the temp estimate was off a good bit.

c. again the temp estimates and now the time estimates are off.

d. I'm inclined to believe the guides although without accurate timeframes they couldn't know.

I'm also not sure on the "not so good a job cleaning". It sounds like they left the liver inside the body cavity? Not much cleaning from what it sounds like. People leave deer overnight before retrieving them without field dressing them quite often in those temperatures, but a moose is a much larger animal and will retain heat much longer. My conclusion would be that the spoiled meat would be directly related to the poor job field dressing or that the temperatures were much higher than 60-65 degrees.

Here is my conclusion as I have heard of moose spoiling in 1 day if not proparly taken care of.

First the not so good cleaning job leaves alot of question marks to me..

Second if laying on the ground the moose's legs are closed causing it to retain body heat better.. Had the legs been held open better it would of stood a better chance as well.

Lastly is letting it hang in those temps could cause it to spoil if the hide was left on it without a doubt in my
mind. The moose is almost all black which will draw heat from the sun and ruin the moose rather quickly.
I know of a few moose that has spoiled because of leaving the hide on as well as not packing it with blocks of ice in hot weather.. I know of a couple of folks that took thier time at the tagging station and had thiers start to spoil by letting people admire it and the like.

So to answer your question if it could spoil so quickly,, Absolutely it can..

I see no mention of skinning it. Moose hide retains heat for days. Remember what it is for....I have killed 3 and have skinned them and cleaned them on the spot. Never an oz. of spoiled meet due to temp. even in the 40s and 50s. Good air circulation is a must. how could they even think of going after such a beautiful animal and not know how to take care of it? That kind of thing gives us all a bad name.

learned this about elk and buffalo....

ice/snow can actually insulate hot meat causing it to spoil sooner

ideally you get the animal gutted and skinned to help cool off more quickly.

A big mass of meat can spoil in the center etc... due to hot spots, also in a cooler with ice etc...I think you need air circulating to cool off meat

Personally I think if you shoot an animal, and know its dead, there's no reason not to start the processing, even if that means working in the dark and til the wee hours.

gut it, skin it, hang it, get it to the processor or wherever you're gonna cut it up. I see no reason to leave an animal simply out of convenience, ie its late, youre tired, unless you're 2nd guessing if you made a kill shot etc...

if all you do is gut an animal, spread it open with some sticks etc....at least, help get air circulating in there.

while elk hunting this year, a guy shot/killed an elk at daybreak, left it there for a good 4 or 5hrs in the sun, waiting for his guide I assume? it bloated up etc...

I say take some pictures and get cuttin!

Bang on! What they had happen was green rot, bone out. Moose and elk are larger then deer therefor your windows are decreased, like mentioned already. They need to be gutted and skinned as soon as poosible. I have spent 7-8 hours packing out several moose but before I/we make the first trip they get dressed, skinned and quartered. Cooling the entire carcass is the key. Water can aid in spoilage, that is why I tell people to use frozen ziplocs or milk jugs to place in coolers/carcasses/etc vs loose ice.

Unfortunately it sounds like your friends didn't do their best to ensure they took care of the meat: Field dressing?? Hanging? Not getting it to a locker plant ASAP? Maybe not prepared for the task??

I butcher on the side BTW and have seen lots of meat wasted due to improper care. I had a moose come in a few years ago that spent the night on a trailer after being shot in the morning. It was field dressed good but they never bothered to skin or hang it. The only thing we could do was fire up the tractor and bury it. Complete waste and these guys had the where with all to deal with it just chose not too. :sad:

regardless of how well they cleaned it out...leaving it hang with just the cheese cloth and no big pillow case to cover the animal will allow all those flys to lay their eggs in the meat..at those temps they are good for hatching the larva and thus the meat will ruin......big mistake not covering any animal with the cheese cloth and a big pillow case so that the fly's cannot get to it.

as mentioned it sounds like they didn't skin it (mistake 1) and didn't gut it all that well.

All that said, if you leave an animal of that size, laying on the ground, even gutted, it won't cool. That hide is built to insulate and hold heat in. Add to that that it's laying on the ground, so air isn't circulating.

Things that big MUST be skinned and quartered and gotten off the ground.

Depending on the state or province in which they killed the moose, they could be prosecuted.

have shot a few moose and have left them in the bush overnight with no problem ..if he opened it up and removed everything he should not have lost any meat ..something tells me he found a dead moose that somebody shot and did not recover ...

hang on a second here...you said they didnt do a good job cleanin it....but the next mornin the liver had streaks....sounds like it wasnt gutted at all...duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

peppering a carcass? do discuss

Bowfly... In areas where it's not always possible to get a carcass to a processor/cooler promptly, one method of keeping the blowflies off the meat is to sprinkle it liberally with black pepper..

Some hunters refine this process by soaking thier meat bags in a hot pepper brine ( such as cayenne) prior to the hunt..

I have never tried it myself, so I cannot attest to it's effectivness.. I always had good luck by promptly skinning, quartering, bagging, and hanging meat in the shade...

It can spoil that quickly. As stated above, on an animal that size, get it dressed, quartered, skinned, and hung so the air can circulate. I had a friend kill and elk up the Snake river canyon a few years ago. He did a good job field dressing it. It was cool when he left it with some rain. By morning there were several inches of snow so the air was cool. We hiked up and started boning it out to pack. This is getting unto 12 hours after the animal died. The meat around the hip joints was still fairly hot. The meat on that animal turned out okay, but you want to get meat cooled all the way through or you risk souring.

As stated he didn't do a very good job at dressing it. He never really stated exactly what was left in it. Also if the hinds were not open up by using a stick or a tree to put a hind leg around no air can get to them to cool it. Then letting it hang all day in 60-65 degree temps is way to hot for it to hang like that. IMO even if it was skinned out while it hanged it would still be to warm and should of been taken care of. Some have started rotting here just by sitting at a tagging station letting people admire it..

I had a freind that shot 1 this year that fell in the water and had to get it with canoes. They even had to dress it out in the water. He shot it a 5:00pm and did not get home with it until 2:30am and the moose was still full of body heat even after that excersion..

But whether he had found one or not I can not say for sure. What I will say though is that he should of taken care of it better if it was a good moose..

They screwed up and lost a freezer full of meat!

If they had used the gutless method, they would not have lost any meat and it doesn't take hardly any more time than gutting it.

Do a search and send them a link to the gutless method.

I agree with take pictures, gut it, skin it, quarter it, and then hang it. I belive if they had done that right away it wouldn't have spoiled.

Yep, so true!
Ever see that guy who shot a HUGE bear, loaded it up in his truck for braggin rights at the local Tavern without skinning it? The meat's wasted. Elk, Buffalo, Bear, Hog, Moose - all the same. Clean it! Skin It! Bone it if possible, cool it down & keep it dry!

Whats This?
 

Never heard anyone doing this..
Whats the idea?

If you put pepper on the meat (takes a lot of pepper of course) it will keep the flies and bees away in the warmer temps.

I'm wondering if it flavors the meat too?

Hard to me to understand how someone could lose an animal to rot. We have to pack out our elk and at least this year, 2 out of 3 were in very warm weather. Getting to the animal skinning, quartering them is important and putting the quarters in game bags keeps the flys off them. We had temps in the 30's at night and 60's during the day at the cabin but the quarters in bags were hung in the shade and in the ever present wind stayed cool. Moose are a bit bigger but the same thing works for them just like elk, caribou, deer and turkey all of which I have experience with. I have hunted for over 45 years and never lost an animal due to spoilage other than one that couldn't be recovered until the next day in warm weather.

Meat care
 

Moose will spoil overnight if not cared for properly, gutting yes, skinning yes , quartering again yes but if the temp is at all warm you must also open the larger cuts [the back legs] A slice down the thigh all the way to the bone from joint to joint, will go a long way to cool the hardest parts to get cool. Ive been in on a few moose , at least one at 70 + degrees, as well as a lot of rode kills, large pieces and temps over 20 at night are a disaster on large animals. Yes we use pepper ,citric acid ,anything to help keep the critters off game bags are a requirement but even they can be torn etc allowing access.And one can only pack so much on some trips.In an ideal world we would replace a torn game bag , but reality is far different.

How I Was Taught to be A Hunter
 

Hunting is not just a shooter. Hunting is about scouting. It's about gutting a deer efficiently, keeping the meat safely and getting the liver for the next supper, if not that day.

I can see a big waste of time and money for anyone who has not studied the body of a deer or other game. The mere act of shooting becomes a total waste of energy.

pepper
 

Maine has a split week moose season that starts the last week of September. There can be some warm temps or some downright chilly temps depending on Ma Nature. The folks at Maine Fish & Game recommend 8 oz. of pepper, dusted inside and out on a moose. We've only dusted one on the 5 hunts I've been on. It didn't leave any peppery flavor. If you've got a real big moose, maybe having 2 8 oz. cans on hand would be a good idea.

I feel sorry for the guys that lost their moose to spoilage. They are a hunt of a lifetime. This story just reinforces what we all (should) know about game handling.


- Jay

ps: here's a pic of a nice cow shot by my friend Ron in New Hampshire last week. We were 8 hours from moose down until the butcher shop. Fortunately the temps were cool.

You'd think it would but I had to do it once in a pinch and it didn't leave any flavor at all. I think the only time pepper really flavors meat is when it's cooked.

This year we experienced the same weather on our elk hunt.

In the past I was big on skinning right away until one year, on a 66 degree day I shot a nice sized bull elk. We were well over a mile away from the nearest road and worse we were downhill so the hike back was pretty steep uphill effectively multplying the perceived distance. We employed the gutless method and skinned the quarters although we did leave bone in the quarters but there was lots of meat like the backstrap with no bone in them. We hung the meat for the night and temps dropped down into the 30's. The next day we rounded up some friends and went back and hauled out the elk and took us most of the day. By the time we got the elk back to the cooler to hang and process the meat hadn't spoiled but it got this tough layer on the meat. I had a lot of meat wasted because of this 1/4 to 1/2 thick layer of almost jerky'd like meat all the way around. Underneath that it was fine. (I process my own so I notice these things) Nearly every steak and roast had to be trimmed quite a bit of this hardened meat.

Since then I half or quarter the animals but I don't skin it until I have the animal in the cooler to hang or just before I get it in there. I have found the skin actually preserves the meat under it. I think the important part is to get a bag on it, get it in the shade, and hung to cool off.

This year we halved two elk, bagged them, and hung them in a shady tree for 3 days and we didn't skin them until we got them home and ready to hang in the cooler for a few days. They did great and we had very little loss of meat, maybe 10lbs. at best. 30's at night, 60's during the day. BTW they are some of the best tasting elk I've had in a while too.