.270 enough... ?
08-29-2009, 10:03 AM
#31
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NW Colorado
Posts: 199
after predator hunting with my 22-250 i would like to move up to large game. i wanted a caliber that could take hogs to elk and wanted to know if the .270 was enough to fill this void. i spend alot of time at the range and handload so wanted a caliber that was fun and accurate at distance to shoot with a pretty flat trajectory if possible. would a .308 be better for the game i'd like to take? any other suggestions? people also mention 30-06? thanks.
Take a look at the 338 Federal. Its my new pet round. Mild recoil, decent range to reach out there and touch something. But if are gonna handload I'd go with the 338 Win Mag. Its plenty enough medicine for any North American game. I am biased towards them. But to answer your question yes a 270 will work, but I would recommend a larger caliber if your going to buy a new gun.
Shot placement most important thing. And if you go after elk, premium bullets perform so much better than a standard bullet. Barnes TSX would be my choice, but Nosler Partition, the Winchester Fail safe's are some others I'd suggest if they shoot better in your new rifle.
08-29-2009, 03:10 PM
#32
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Kerrville, Tx. USA
Posts: 2,722
When I pull out my elk rifle every year I don't think about short range and slow and heavy. I think about what if that bull is standing 500 yds from me above timberline and there's not a bush big enough to hide a rabbit behind between him and me. That's what crosses my mind. So I prefer speed and trajectory and accuracy over heavy bullets. I guess that's what makes me different. I won't explain in detail just pull some numbers off remington's charts for example's. Then I'll list my hand load at the bottom.
270 win vs. 30-06 at 300yds and beyond.
130gr 270 Factory Ammo
Velocity 300-2425 400-2232 500-2048
Energy 300-1697 400-1438 500-1211
Trajectory 300-6.5 400-18.8 500-38.2
150gr 30-06 Factory Ammo
Velocity 300-2298 400-2111 500-1934
Energy 300-1758 400-1485 500-1246
Trajectory 300-7.3 400-21.1 500-42.3
180gr 30-06 Factory Ammo
Velocity 300-2186 400-2028 500-1878
Energy 300-1910 400-1644 500-1409
Trajectory 300-8.3 400-23.9 500-47.9
130gr 270 win My Hand Loads
Velocity 300-2604 400-2411 500-2227
Energy 300-1957 400-1678 500-1432
Trajectory 300-5.6 400-16.3 500-33.1
The 270's 130gr factory loads compete really well against the 30-06's factory loads in two heavier grain bullets. Of course this is 300yds and beyond. The 270win is a lot flatter and would be a lot easier to judge hold over or adjust clicks on a target scope. I put my data in the mix to show you at those ranges my hand loads are flying faster, hitting harder, and have a lot less room for error than of a standard factory load in a 30-06. I love the 30-06 round it's a great one. But it don't have what i'm looking for in my long range shooting and ballistic coefficient in down range shooting. If I were to only shoot 200yds and under sure why not load the ole 30-06 with 200gr bullets and get after it.
So to say I'll choose the 30-06 over the 270 win in my gun cabinet I'd have to say that ole model 70 30-06 has been collecting dust for a lot of years now.
Sorry for the charts the site wouldn't let me copy and paste the originals. I posted this to put a lot of myths to bed. They are both from the same case but different in bore size. Both can hold the same amount of powder but one can push a bullet a tad faster is all and the other can be loaded with a heavier bullet. That's about the size of it.
270 win vs. 30-06 at 300yds and beyond.
130gr 270 Factory Ammo
Velocity 300-2425 400-2232 500-2048
Energy 300-1697 400-1438 500-1211
Trajectory 300-6.5 400-18.8 500-38.2
150gr 30-06 Factory Ammo
Velocity 300-2298 400-2111 500-1934
Energy 300-1758 400-1485 500-1246
Trajectory 300-7.3 400-21.1 500-42.3
180gr 30-06 Factory Ammo
Velocity 300-2186 400-2028 500-1878
Energy 300-1910 400-1644 500-1409
Trajectory 300-8.3 400-23.9 500-47.9
130gr 270 win My Hand Loads
Velocity 300-2604 400-2411 500-2227
Energy 300-1957 400-1678 500-1432
Trajectory 300-5.6 400-16.3 500-33.1
The 270's 130gr factory loads compete really well against the 30-06's factory loads in two heavier grain bullets. Of course this is 300yds and beyond. The 270win is a lot flatter and would be a lot easier to judge hold over or adjust clicks on a target scope. I put my data in the mix to show you at those ranges my hand loads are flying faster, hitting harder, and have a lot less room for error than of a standard factory load in a 30-06. I love the 30-06 round it's a great one. But it don't have what i'm looking for in my long range shooting and ballistic coefficient in down range shooting. If I were to only shoot 200yds and under sure why not load the ole 30-06 with 200gr bullets and get after it.
So to say I'll choose the 30-06 over the 270 win in my gun cabinet I'd have to say that ole model 70 30-06 has been collecting dust for a lot of years now.
Sorry for the charts the site wouldn't let me copy and paste the originals. I posted this to put a lot of myths to bed. They are both from the same case but different in bore size. Both can hold the same amount of powder but one can push a bullet a tad faster is all and the other can be loaded with a heavier bullet. That's about the size of it.
However, I wouldn't shoot an elk at 500 yards with either the 270 or the '06.
And ft/lbs is nothing more than a mathmatical formula that SQUARES the speed of the bullet ALWAYS giving a leg up to faster bullets. Taking this formula to an extreme, you could get a 50 gr bullet going fast enough to look as good as the 270 ON PAPER, but don't see anyone purporting this caliber for elk.
Bottom line is that there has to be a line below which the ft/lbs starts to give you bogus data. In my opinion, the 270 is close to that line. How close will continue to be debated long after I am gone.
However, if someday I had to make the choice between 1500 ft/lbs from a 130 gr bullet or 1500 ft/lbs from a 165 or 180 gr bullet, I am going to chose the bigger bullet for an elk.
There is more than one way to skin a cat, and there is more than one mathmatical formula to compare "knockdown power". Here is another one that I like to use:
http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/July02.htm
Stick your data in this formula and see how the two calibers fare. And out to reasonable distances, bullet drop between the two calibers is not that significant.
Last edited by txhunter58; 08-29-2009 at 03:24 PM.
08-30-2009, 06:18 AM
#36
Typical Buck
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 797
Txhunter58,
Your pretty much right when you say a bigger bullet especially in bore size has a different kind knock down power. The big bores have that U shaped factor on impact and wound channel. Where the lighter fast calibers have the V shaped factor on impact and the wound channel is spread out into the animal at a slower rate. Bullet design can also change this a bit. But the 30-06, 308, 300rum, 7mm mag, are all pretty much in the same V class of impacts and kinetic energy displacement as it travels through and animal. Any bullet weight that is heavier and slower is better at causing the U shaped impact and hence creating more of a traumatizing hit taking the air right out of an animal. Knock down power. A shotgun slug, a muzzle loader, and all your african sized calibers will for sure just put the hurt on an animal in a hurry. But rifle's pushing bullets around that 3000 fps mark or faster are going to react very similar to each other in performance on impacts and wound channels. The simplicity of knock down power is lost unless your hitting major bone. But the end result is still the same a dead animal it just might take a step or two and realize opps I think i'm screwed.
But when people compare apples to apples it just makes me shake my head and wonder. How much research and practical use knowledge is used before making statements like, a 270 is not worthy of it's place in the elk hunting world. And it has nothing to do with the 270 class of rifle itself just that mentality that energy and bullet size replaces accuracy on game animals. I've seen elk hit with almost every caliber out there and a bad hit is a bad hit no matter the bullet size or the caliber.
I like big bore rifles and muzzle loaders. I love putting the smack down on animals. I also love reaching out and taking the pumper right out of their chest at longer ranges.
In all defense of the lil mighty 270win my favorite elk rifle that comes out of my closet is my 300 win mag. So you see even though i've killed plenty of elk with a 270 win I choose my 300 win mag over my 270win for one reason. My particular 300win mag rifle is one accurate sob with the loads I have for it. Not because of power. I even take it to the bench rest competitions. Having faith in a particular rifle is so much more rewarding than data and ballistic charts. Beware of the man with one rifle for which he knows it well. hehe
But if i was to start all over without any experience in today's modern world of rifle makers and calibers to choose from I would be lost myself in trying to make a decision on which one would suit me best. There is so many options.
Your pretty much right when you say a bigger bullet especially in bore size has a different kind knock down power. The big bores have that U shaped factor on impact and wound channel. Where the lighter fast calibers have the V shaped factor on impact and the wound channel is spread out into the animal at a slower rate. Bullet design can also change this a bit. But the 30-06, 308, 300rum, 7mm mag, are all pretty much in the same V class of impacts and kinetic energy displacement as it travels through and animal. Any bullet weight that is heavier and slower is better at causing the U shaped impact and hence creating more of a traumatizing hit taking the air right out of an animal. Knock down power. A shotgun slug, a muzzle loader, and all your african sized calibers will for sure just put the hurt on an animal in a hurry. But rifle's pushing bullets around that 3000 fps mark or faster are going to react very similar to each other in performance on impacts and wound channels. The simplicity of knock down power is lost unless your hitting major bone. But the end result is still the same a dead animal it just might take a step or two and realize opps I think i'm screwed.
But when people compare apples to apples it just makes me shake my head and wonder. How much research and practical use knowledge is used before making statements like, a 270 is not worthy of it's place in the elk hunting world. And it has nothing to do with the 270 class of rifle itself just that mentality that energy and bullet size replaces accuracy on game animals. I've seen elk hit with almost every caliber out there and a bad hit is a bad hit no matter the bullet size or the caliber.
I like big bore rifles and muzzle loaders. I love putting the smack down on animals. I also love reaching out and taking the pumper right out of their chest at longer ranges.
In all defense of the lil mighty 270win my favorite elk rifle that comes out of my closet is my 300 win mag. So you see even though i've killed plenty of elk with a 270 win I choose my 300 win mag over my 270win for one reason. My particular 300win mag rifle is one accurate sob with the loads I have for it. Not because of power. I even take it to the bench rest competitions. Having faith in a particular rifle is so much more rewarding than data and ballistic charts. Beware of the man with one rifle for which he knows it well. hehe
But if i was to start all over without any experience in today's modern world of rifle makers and calibers to choose from I would be lost myself in trying to make a decision on which one would suit me best. There is so many options.
