Help choosing a hunting rifle
 

I am new to hunting and was wondering what would be a good rifle to start out with. I have looked atseveral 30-06 but am unsure what route to go, either bolt action or semi-auto. As far as brands, not sure if I want a Marlin XL-7, a Stevens, a Ruger M77, a Remington, or Mossenberg 4x4......I have also been told to check into a REM 7MM. Any advice would be greatly appreciate. I was told that just because a rifle is a cheaper price like the Marlin, doesn't mean that it is a bad gun...

RE: Help choosing a hunting rifle
 

If you don't have one already, buy a .22 first and get the shooting basics down. The absolute worst thing you can do is to buy a gun with too much recoil right off the bat. If you have a .22, ignore that ;) The 06' will handle anything in N.A. with the proper bullets. However, if you're only going to be shooting deer, you'd be just as well off with something smaller like a .270. Either one are "standards" that have proven track records. As for a rifle choice, Steven's have an excellent reputation for excellent out of the box shooters. Hope this helps,

Cory

RE: Help choosing a hunting rifle
 

That is my opinion too jazzy; just because it doesn't sell for 800-900 dollars doesn't mean it is bad. Personally I have a mossberg 100 ATR and it is super accurate. I got rid of my other Winchester model 70 feather weight in 300 win mag after buying this rifle, I love it in 270. If I were to buy a mag rifle again I believe it would be in 7mm.

RE: Help choosing a hunting rifle
 

I would like to have something that I can also hunt Elk with in the future.Is a 7mm to much? Thanks for the advice.

RE: Help choosing a hunting rifle
 

So if I am just hunting Deer I should stay around 270 and not waste the extra power.

RE: Help choosing a hunting rifle
 

The .270 Win is just fine for elk. It is a proven performer on all the game fields of the world. Pretty hard to go wrong with one...and as long as you like the rifle and it shoots well, it doesn't matter one bit whether you spent $400 on it or $4,000.

RE: Help choosing a hunting rifle
 

What seattle said! I have taken two elk with my 270 (the mossberg 100 ATR) which between the rifle the scope the sling and two boxes of ammo cost me right at $500 and it is a proven game taker. Elk, mule deer, and bear! One of my mule deer was a 300+ yard shot and tea kettled him where he stood. Elk last season 08 was a 295 yard shot one shot dropped him. My hunting companion was hunting with a 270 he borrowed from a friend and his was a 235 yard shot one shot; same rifle the owner of said rifle took a 6x7 bull 465 yard shot shot him four times (3 too many as the first was a kill shot) so the 270 is adaquit for elk. Many disagree but I have and so have many many people taken elk with this caliber. No the 7mm is not to big for an elk or a deer just have to shoot lighter or heavier bullets for the intended game.

RE: Help choosing a hunting rifle
 

I have also harvested elk and moose with a .270, however I always felt I needed to restrict myself in distance and especially shooting angle. At the time my choices were basically Nosler Part. and Winchester failsafes.A few more now however I am still of the opinion if your looking at a single rifle to huntlarger thendeer sized game then you should be looking at the .284 and up calibers. Assuming you won't be reloading you should also consider cartridge choices that offer a range of bullet for possible uses. In the .284 class the 7mm rem mag is the most popular/available of the bunch. In the .308 class the 3006 sprg is the most popular, however goodavailability for the 300wm, 300wsm and 308win exist as well. Recoil might be a concern so the 300 wm & 300wsm present the most recoil of these listed. The7 RMand 3006sprg are really pretty close, though 7mm rem mag is a little sharper 7 louder which give the impression of slightly more recoil. The 308win would be the least of the bunch, though it also is the least powerful so stands to reason recoil numbers will be lower.

In terms of the 7mm rem mag it has been my all arounder choice off and on for a number of yearsI have harvested antelope to moose. Close to longrange. Normal to tough slugging conditions have been put in front of its path and it's always performed. My 7mm rem mag has basically become my deer rifle, sinceI moved in a .338wm for elk, moose & future large game(big bears, etc). For my deer hunting needsThe 7mm rem maghas always been a good fit and I know it works for larger as well (nice fallback option);). I have owned 300's &3006 which were equally qualified as an all arounder, just liked the rem mag a tad moreand thus it stuck.

As far as which rifle, fit and feel are the most important thing to choosing which one you buy. Get out and shoulder as many as possible or within your budget, the list will shorten I'm sure!

RE: Help choosing a hunting rifle
 

When I do hunt with a gun, out of all of mine, I prefer my .270, has performed very well for me over the years.

RE: Help choosing a hunting rifle
 

If you are looking for an all around gun and see in your future only owning one gun for awhile get a .270, 30-06, or 7MM. Good all around calibers.

RE: Help choosing a hunting rifle
 

If I was only going to hunt deer (whitetail and mulies), I would definately buy a 270. that is the first rifle that I bought, and I still use it frequently.

However, If I were just starting out and felt pretty sure that elk were in my future, I would choose the 30-06 or the 7mm rem. mag.

All three calibers have relatively cheap ammo (compared to less popular calibers) that can be bought over the counter almost everywhere.

If I really had to choose one caliber, it would be the 30-06. You can buy the remington 125 gr. reduced recoil that kicks about like a 243, the 150-165 grain bullets for big deer and the 180 gr for elk. Hornady sells a "light magnum" 180 gr that has as much power as a regular 300 win mag.

As far as brands of rifle, you probably would be all right with any of the brands mentioned. I have winchester, remington, and ruger, and feel that these are quality firearms. I hear good things about Marlin, but have never owned one. Look for a sale, but remember, this is an investment that will last a lifetime, so if buying quality means another 100 dollars, just wait till you can afford it. After all, it will last you a long time. That 270 I bought is now 34 years old and still going strong.

Just remember, even if you think this will be the only rifle you will ever buy, chances are you will buy another at some point, so there really is no wrong decision here. I now have a .17, 22, 222, 243, 270, 30-06, 7mm, and a 338 win mag........ not to mention the 3 muzzloaders I have. D###, I need a bigger gun safe!LOL.

RE: Help choosing a hunting rifle
 

With factory foder there just isn't much difference between a 270Win and a 7RM.With handloads the big 7 gains the upper hand by a good margin.I've killed elk with both and with a good bullet placed in the vitals you'll have a very dead elk.

I'd also take a hard look at Weatherby's Vanguard for $399......best deal out there right now IMO.


Brett

RE: Help choosing a hunting rifle
 

Agreed. The very best value out there, IMHO. I recently bought one (SS model) in .270 Win.

RE: Help choosing a hunting rifle
 

It's the hunter, not the gun.
I've killed 5 elk with 30-06, 4 with a .300 Win Mag and 3 with a .338. I currently hunt with 300, but I've thought about going back to the 30-06 as I get older because it has less kick.

RE: Help choosing a hunting rifle
 

I'd have to agree johnsides it is about the man behind the trigger a cannon won't help some people.


I'd stick with the 270 or 30-06 if i was picking a beginners rifle. I'd also practice with the 22lr and learn to breath and squeeze the trigger it will make you a better shot. And it's a lot cheaper on ammo.

If you hit off group up and down it's breathing. If you hit off group left or right it's trigger pull. Welcome to the world of guns and hunting jazzy.

RE: Help choosing a hunting rifle
 

One more thing to consider at this point in time is the availability of ammo. I haven't seen much 06 on the shelves at wal-mart here recently, or 7mm, but I do see 270 everywhere I go.

RE: Help choosing a hunting rifle
 

I would look into a Browining A Bolt Stalker in a .270 WSM with a 140 Nosler Accubond at 3200 fps. Then top it with a Leupold VX3 4.5-14X 50mm Long Range with a Boone and Crocket Reticle and you will have a light weight, fast, flat, accurate big game rifle capable of nearly anything in North America at most ranges to 600 yards.

RE: Help choosing a hunting rifle
 

600 yards is way too far to be shooting a 140 grain .270 bullet and expecting a clean kill.
It's people like this that give hunters a bad name.

RE: Help choosing a hunting rifle
 

Unbelivable that someone would run their mouth like this. A .270 WSM with a 140 grain controlled expansion, high weight retention bullet will smoke the biggest bull at 600 yards ifthe shooter is capable of the shot. I train rifle shooters year round. My students take gameyearlyat distance.It is all about equipment, skill and practice.Match muzzle velocity with ballistic coefficient and bullet choice. Come out to Utah and I will help you fine tune your shooting skills at distance. I am all about ethics.Take the shot that you are confident you can make. Make the first shot count! Know the ballistics of your gun. Simple as that.

RE: Help choosing a hunting rifle
 

"If the shooter is capable of the shot"

That IS the rub isn't it. I worry that some youngsters out there in their "invincible" age may read your post and think they are capable of doing what you are doing. I havesuspect that you are capable of taking an ethical shot at that distance, but the other 99 out of 100 of us are not.

Here is a link to your ammo: http://www.federalpremium.com/products/compare/rifle_compare.aspx

Marginal energy at that distance means you will have to hit him in the boiler room.You may not get the job done with a shoulder bone hit. With the drop and wind drift (close to2 feet at600 yards in a 10 mile an hour wind) the only people who could reliably make that shot are those that have the time to practice, practice, practice and have an inate ability to shoot. Most of us don't have the time or the skills and never will. Is the animal going to take a step, is that wind 10 or 15 mph, how much above/below me is he, did my rangefinder give me an accurate reading, are all variables in an equation that leads to a clean kill or wounding/miss. I certainly won't say it is unethical for you to take the shot, but certainly it is for me and the vast majority of us.

And of course, the real question asked: Does it bullet have enough power to take an elk at that distance if thehit becomes marginal for whatever reason. If I am taking the shot, the answer is no.

RE: Help choosing a hunting rifle
 

I stand by original statement. I shoot a .300WM, I practice, I shoot silhouettes out to 800 yards, but I still wouldn't shoot at a living animal at 600 yards. You, and your students, MIGHT be able to make the shot, but that doesn't make it an ethical shot for most people.

RE: Help choosing a hunting rifle
 

The 140 grain Accubond bullet at 8000 feet above sea level has nearly 1600 ft. lbs at 600 yards. That will smoke a bull elk. You guys are right in that the hunter makes a choice based on practice and skill level to make the shot. I commend you for knowing your limitations. Usually my students have drawn out a premium big game tag. Most times taking in excess of 12 years to draw. We prepare for the worst and hope for the best in the field. Thanks you for being ethical hunters. Nothing wrong with that. I will continue to train shooters for long range situations. It doesn't mean we wonttry to get into 400 yards or closer. But if my client is shooting a 300 magnum with a high BC controlled expansion bullet and a bull of a lifetime feeds out across abig Utah Canyon 550 yards away I hope I have prepared them to be able to make the shot. Otherwise we may miss the opportunity.We all have different shooting levels. Understanding your personal skills are worth their weight in gold when the moment of truth arrives. Good debate keeps us all fresh and thinking. I love it!

RE: Help choosing a hunting rifle
 

.30-06 Remington ADL black synthetic stock. Costs maybe $350. Put a good quality scope on it when you have some money, but you can use it with the iron sights it is sold with. If you get into hunting and want to have either more aesthetically pleasing firearms and/or rifles chambered in cartridges that are more optimized for specific game animals (.25-06 for pronghorn antelope, .338 Win Mag for Elk, whatever) this rifle will still provide a useful function as a back-up for all big game hunting. Additionally, this black synthetic stock package is very robust and sturdy. Maybe when the weather is foul and you don't want to expose your pretty wood stocked beauty to the elements you can go hunting with this cheap, ugly ADL? I've got one, and I got it for this role of back-up rifle.

The .30-06 is generally considered to be perfectly adequate for all North American game shy of Grizzly Bears and Brown Bears. Truth be known, probably many of these bears too have been taken with the .30-06, but it seems to be prudent to use the most powerful cartridge you can shoot accurately for these species -- but this is an expensive, specialized hunt for most of us, and you can cross this bridge when you come to it by buying a specialized rifle for that hunt. Probably no ammunition is more widely sold than .30-06 ammunition, and in appropriate bullet weights for the game species proximate to the retail location selling the cartridges.

I'm sure I'm repeating much of what others have already said about the .30-06.

RE: Help choosing a hunting rifle
 

Hightop: I am enjoying the disscussion as well. And I would have much less of a problem with someone using a 300 magnum on an elk at 550 yards. But does the 8000 ft elevation make that much difference in the retained velocity/ enegy? By Federal Premium calculations, I extrapolatethe 270 WSMbullet to have around 1400 ft lbs at 600 yards, possibly slightly less since it has just over 1600 at 500 yards. Probably calculated at sea level, but didn't think that would make that much difference with elevation change. For the kind of bulls your clients will be hunting in Utah, I would consider 1400 ft lbs to be marginal. JMO.........

Throw in my 2 cents for a .308
 

I have owned .06's and 7mms. Both very good calibers for anything that walks the lower 48. I have a .300 WSM which I would like to be more familiar with but at $35-50 for a box of shells. It is a bit prohibitive. So, I oppt for the .308 for two reasons:
1. It has a reasonable recoil for a newer hunter.
2. Because of all the surplus ammo it is cheaper to to shoot. And, to my way of thinking shooting a lot is the best and only way to get proficient. All the major ammo manufacturers make excellent hunting rounds. My preference is the Hornady Light Mag 150 gr softpoint. aT 300 FPS it gives all the knockdown power you will need.

As far as brand, I was brought up with Browning and consider the higher price worth it. But Savage., Mossberg, Remington, Stevens, etc all make accurate bolt actions. I believe the accuracy of a bolt action is more important than the quick second & third shot afforded by a semi.

Agree with the one gun hunter choosing a .270, 7MM, .30-06.




Hope this helps


http://www.chuckhawks.com/choosing_hunting_rifle.htm




Good luck with YOUR decision !

I agree that the .270 is a good all around gun. The 06, 308, or 7 mm are as well. I love my 06.

Don't over look the savages, one reputable custom rifle builder once said that savage makes the best factory barrel "hands down." They are are not as flashy as some of the other names, but are quite accurate and reliable. I shoot an older 110 and wouldn't trade it for anything. I can pull the trigger on that beast with absolute, 100% confidence that it will connect.

sclwald - just gave you the "ABC's" of where to start.




Can't go wrong with any of those !

I own a .338 win mag that kicks less than any big gun I own. It is a browning BAR with a boss on the end. I know Auto's cant shoot as good as bolt action guns but I am able to hold half inch groups on a good day so I am happy. the two worst kicking guns I have ever shot were both rugers in a .270 and .338. seems to me after a few years of testing for recoil, a gun that fits proper comes before caliber with in reason. I know that brownings, Remington, and Howa fit me the best. Good luck with your choice. The truth be known If good broadside shots are taken any legal gun will do the job. In my opinion the bigger guns are needed by those that spend endless hours in pursuit of the critter of there dreams and may need to take a marginal shot.

Txhunter58,

There is a major difference in a calibers preformance at 12,000 ft vs 1000 ft in elevation.

About 300 or more ft lbs and about 4" less drop at 500yds. 12,000ft can make a standard 270 win factory load into a Hornady light magnum class just in elevation for longer ranges.

It increases the power and trajectory of your caliber enough that you'll hit a tad higher on the animal even if you sighted in at 8000 or 9000 ft of elevation.

I can't post the results of the tables on here some reason it won't let me do that but here's a link. http://www.biggameinfo.com/BalCalc.aspx

That will give you an idea if you put in the same information except change the elevation. It's only a guideline but I know for a fact there's a major transformation in bullet preformance and trajectories in higher elevation.

I usually don't get into the battle of the bulge when it comes to caliber debates. I'm a hand loader for one and that's a whole different preformance level when it comes to caliber vs caliber. My 270 win loads will out preform most standard 7mm mag factory loads. But for me it's not a battle of the bulge but what I want a caliber to preform at for me.

Most calibers today and ammunition have the capability to cleanly kill game at 500yds, but the problem is that most hunters haven't developed the shooting skills to do so ethically 9 out of 10 times. And if people are gonna shoot those ranges they should practice them and not wait till the bull of a lifetime is standing in the open and you can't get no closer.


I hope i was helpful.

Hmmm....damn glad to see we got us some geniune snipers on this forum. I am no math whiz or physics guy so all the talk about what a bullet will do at elevation and at 600 yards is just talk to me. But I am able to grasp what a 5-10 mile an hour cross wind or updraft or quartering wind will do to that bullet. You better be trained and better be of military caliber if you plan on making that shot count. My guess is 98% of us would miss..or worse.

One gun battery...original post asked that question I believe?
I would suggest a .223! Then you would be forced to get the second gun as you obviously and foolishly "undergunned" with your first selection!!! :rock:

i honestly wouldnt get a 030-06 for your first gun unless you have shot it before. it kick like a mule. i started with a .22 mag and than borrowed my friends .243 for a while then got a 30 odd. its still a lot of kick for me and i am off to a 30 30. i depeneds on what you want to hunt and the terrain you have

30-06---hands down BEST there is. Better than any 270 and a 7mm kicks too hard.
Choice of bullet weights for a 30-06 is almost unlimited.