Help choosing a hunting rifle
06-01-2009, 05:21 AM
#21
Spike
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 35
RE: Help choosing a hunting rifle
I stand by original statement. I shoot a .300WM, I practice, I shoot silhouettes out to 800 yards, but I still wouldn't shoot at a living animal at 600 yards. You, and your students, MIGHT be able to make the shot, but that doesn't make it an ethical shot for most people.
ORIGINAL: hightop
Unbelivable that someone would run their mouth like this. A .270 WSM with a 140 grain controlled expansion, high weight retention bullet will smoke the biggest bull at 600 yards if the shooter is capable of the shot. I train rifle shooters year round. My students take game yearly at distance. It is all about equipment, skill and practice. Match muzzle velocity with ballistic coefficient and bullet choice. Come out to Utah and I will help you fine tune your shooting skills at distance. I am all about ethics. Take the shot that you are confident you can make. Make the first shot count! Know the ballistics of your gun. Simple as that.
ORIGINAL: johsides
600 yards is way too far to be shooting a 140 grain .270 bullet and expecting a clean kill.
It's people like this that give hunters a bad name.
600 yards is way too far to be shooting a 140 grain .270 bullet and expecting a clean kill.
It's people like this that give hunters a bad name.
06-01-2009, 10:51 PM
#22
Spike
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Utah
Posts: 21
RE: Help choosing a hunting rifle
The 140 grain Accubond bullet at 8000 feet above sea level has nearly 1600 ft. lbs at 600 yards. That will smoke a bull elk. You guys are right in that the hunter makes a choice based on practice and skill level to make the shot. I commend you for knowing your limitations. Usually my students have drawn out a premium big game tag. Most times taking in excess of 12 years to draw. We prepare for the worst and hope for the best in the field. Thanks you for being ethical hunters. Nothing wrong with that. I will continue to train shooters for long range situations. It doesn't mean we wonttry to get into 400 yards or closer. But if my client is shooting a 300 magnum with a high BC controlled expansion bullet and a bull of a lifetime feeds out across abig Utah Canyon 550 yards away I hope I have prepared them to be able to make the shot. Otherwise we may miss the opportunity.We all have different shooting levels. Understanding your personal skills are worth their weight in gold when the moment of truth arrives. Good debate keeps us all fresh and thinking. I love it!
06-02-2009, 08:10 AM
#23
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location:
Posts: 6,357
RE: Help choosing a hunting rifle
.30-06 Remington ADL black synthetic stock. Costs maybe $350. Put a good quality scope on it when you have some money, but you can use it with the iron sights it is sold with. If you get into hunting and want to have either more aesthetically pleasing firearms and/or rifles chambered in cartridges that are more optimized for specific game animals (.25-06 for pronghorn antelope, .338 Win Mag for Elk, whatever) this rifle will still provide a useful function as a back-up for all big game hunting. Additionally, this black synthetic stock package is very robust and sturdy. Maybe when the weather is foul and you don't want to expose your pretty wood stocked beauty to the elements you can go hunting with this cheap, ugly ADL? I've got one, and I got it for this role of back-up rifle.
The .30-06 is generally considered to be perfectly adequate for all North American game shy of Grizzly Bears and Brown Bears. Truth be known, probably many of these bears too have been taken with the .30-06, but it seems to be prudent to use the most powerful cartridge you can shoot accurately for these species -- but this is an expensive, specialized hunt for most of us, and you can cross this bridge when you come to it by buying a specialized rifle for that hunt. Probably no ammunition is more widely sold than .30-06 ammunition, and in appropriate bullet weights for the game species proximate to the retail location selling the cartridges.
I'm sure I'm repeating much of what others have already said about the .30-06.
The .30-06 is generally considered to be perfectly adequate for all North American game shy of Grizzly Bears and Brown Bears. Truth be known, probably many of these bears too have been taken with the .30-06, but it seems to be prudent to use the most powerful cartridge you can shoot accurately for these species -- but this is an expensive, specialized hunt for most of us, and you can cross this bridge when you come to it by buying a specialized rifle for that hunt. Probably no ammunition is more widely sold than .30-06 ammunition, and in appropriate bullet weights for the game species proximate to the retail location selling the cartridges.
I'm sure I'm repeating much of what others have already said about the .30-06.
06-02-2009, 10:21 AM
#24
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Kerrville, Tx. USA
Posts: 2,722
RE: Help choosing a hunting rifle
Hightop: I am enjoying the disscussion as well. And I would have much less of a problem with someone using a 300 magnum on an elk at 550 yards. But does the 8000 ft elevation make that much difference in the retained velocity/ enegy? By Federal Premium calculations, I extrapolatethe 270 WSMbullet to have around 1400 ft lbs at 600 yards, possibly slightly less since it has just over 1600 at 500 yards. Probably calculated at sea level, but didn't think that would make that much difference with elevation change. For the kind of bulls your clients will be hunting in Utah, I would consider 1400 ft lbs to be marginal. JMO.........
08-04-2009, 05:30 PM
#25
Spike
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Milwaukee WI USA
Posts: 18
Throw in my 2 cents for a .308
I have owned .06's and 7mms. Both very good calibers for anything that walks the lower 48. I have a .300 WSM which I would like to be more familiar with but at $35-50 for a box of shells. It is a bit prohibitive. So, I oppt for the .308 for two reasons:
1. It has a reasonable recoil for a newer hunter.
2. Because of all the surplus ammo it is cheaper to to shoot. And, to my way of thinking shooting a lot is the best and only way to get proficient. All the major ammo manufacturers make excellent hunting rounds. My preference is the Hornady Light Mag 150 gr softpoint. aT 300 FPS it gives all the knockdown power you will need.
As far as brand, I was brought up with Browning and consider the higher price worth it. But Savage., Mossberg, Remington, Stevens, etc all make accurate bolt actions. I believe the accuracy of a bolt action is more important than the quick second & third shot afforded by a semi.
1. It has a reasonable recoil for a newer hunter.
2. Because of all the surplus ammo it is cheaper to to shoot. And, to my way of thinking shooting a lot is the best and only way to get proficient. All the major ammo manufacturers make excellent hunting rounds. My preference is the Hornady Light Mag 150 gr softpoint. aT 300 FPS it gives all the knockdown power you will need.
As far as brand, I was brought up with Browning and consider the higher price worth it. But Savage., Mossberg, Remington, Stevens, etc all make accurate bolt actions. I believe the accuracy of a bolt action is more important than the quick second & third shot afforded by a semi.
08-05-2009, 09:41 AM
#26
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location:
Posts: 5,130
Agree with the one gun hunter choosing a .270, 7MM, .30-06.
Hope this helps
http://www.chuckhawks.com/choosing_hunting_rifle.htm
Good luck with YOUR decision !
Hope this helps
http://www.chuckhawks.com/choosing_hunting_rifle.htm
Good luck with YOUR decision !
08-07-2009, 09:05 PM
#27
Typical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 612
I agree that the .270 is a good all around gun. The 06, 308, or 7 mm are as well. I love my 06.
Don't over look the savages, one reputable custom rifle builder once said that savage makes the best factory barrel "hands down." They are are not as flashy as some of the other names, but are quite accurate and reliable. I shoot an older 110 and wouldn't trade it for anything. I can pull the trigger on that beast with absolute, 100% confidence that it will connect.
Don't over look the savages, one reputable custom rifle builder once said that savage makes the best factory barrel "hands down." They are are not as flashy as some of the other names, but are quite accurate and reliable. I shoot an older 110 and wouldn't trade it for anything. I can pull the trigger on that beast with absolute, 100% confidence that it will connect.
08-08-2009, 07:01 PM
#29
Spike
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: wheatland wy
Posts: 51
I own a .338 win mag that kicks less than any big gun I own. It is a browning BAR with a boss on the end. I know Auto's cant shoot as good as bolt action guns but I am able to hold half inch groups on a good day so I am happy. the two worst kicking guns I have ever shot were both rugers in a .270 and .338. seems to me after a few years of testing for recoil, a gun that fits proper comes before caliber with in reason. I know that brownings, Remington, and Howa fit me the best. Good luck with your choice. The truth be known If good broadside shots are taken any legal gun will do the job. In my opinion the bigger guns are needed by those that spend endless hours in pursuit of the critter of there dreams and may need to take a marginal shot.
08-09-2009, 07:57 AM
#30
Typical Buck
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 797
Txhunter58,
There is a major difference in a calibers preformance at 12,000 ft vs 1000 ft in elevation.
About 300 or more ft lbs and about 4" less drop at 500yds. 12,000ft can make a standard 270 win factory load into a Hornady light magnum class just in elevation for longer ranges.
It increases the power and trajectory of your caliber enough that you'll hit a tad higher on the animal even if you sighted in at 8000 or 9000 ft of elevation.
I can't post the results of the tables on here some reason it won't let me do that but here's a link. http://www.biggameinfo.com/BalCalc.aspx
That will give you an idea if you put in the same information except change the elevation. It's only a guideline but I know for a fact there's a major transformation in bullet preformance and trajectories in higher elevation.
I usually don't get into the battle of the bulge when it comes to caliber debates. I'm a hand loader for one and that's a whole different preformance level when it comes to caliber vs caliber. My 270 win loads will out preform most standard 7mm mag factory loads. But for me it's not a battle of the bulge but what I want a caliber to preform at for me.
Most calibers today and ammunition have the capability to cleanly kill game at 500yds, but the problem is that most hunters haven't developed the shooting skills to do so ethically 9 out of 10 times. And if people are gonna shoot those ranges they should practice them and not wait till the bull of a lifetime is standing in the open and you can't get no closer.
I hope i was helpful.
There is a major difference in a calibers preformance at 12,000 ft vs 1000 ft in elevation.
About 300 or more ft lbs and about 4" less drop at 500yds. 12,000ft can make a standard 270 win factory load into a Hornady light magnum class just in elevation for longer ranges.
It increases the power and trajectory of your caliber enough that you'll hit a tad higher on the animal even if you sighted in at 8000 or 9000 ft of elevation.
I can't post the results of the tables on here some reason it won't let me do that but here's a link. http://www.biggameinfo.com/BalCalc.aspx
That will give you an idea if you put in the same information except change the elevation. It's only a guideline but I know for a fact there's a major transformation in bullet preformance and trajectories in higher elevation.
I usually don't get into the battle of the bulge when it comes to caliber debates. I'm a hand loader for one and that's a whole different preformance level when it comes to caliber vs caliber. My 270 win loads will out preform most standard 7mm mag factory loads. But for me it's not a battle of the bulge but what I want a caliber to preform at for me.
Most calibers today and ammunition have the capability to cleanly kill game at 500yds, but the problem is that most hunters haven't developed the shooting skills to do so ethically 9 out of 10 times. And if people are gonna shoot those ranges they should practice them and not wait till the bull of a lifetime is standing in the open and you can't get no closer.
I hope i was helpful.
