Spider bull has been killed
10-02-2008, 08:28 AM
#31
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Moccasin, Montana
Posts: 1,835
RE: Spider bull has been killed
CA,
I realy don't give a rats azz about Mossback(other than they have some cool horn porn) or this bull.As for my coment it was directed at your feverish defense of their tactics.I can realy honestly say WHOOP TEE DODO as for you following these guys around trying to pick up a bone,to me you sound like a Don King.
We all remember the guy that shot other huge bull for team Mossback,I watched the video what a sickning thing to witness.The story was another dissgusting issue that guy did the same thing and I wouldn't even classified him as a hunter.
Yeah I have been to Utah and the day they wouldn't sell me a can of Copenhagen and a beer on Sunday Afternoon,I hauled my azz back home to Montana.
Stealthycat,
I comend you on your honesty and the guts to do what you did alot of guys would not.
Hillbilly,
Glad you made home safe and sound,another missed opprtunity,I will catch ya next year give me some dates when you are planning.
Nathan,
How is this diffrent yeah it was public land,realy how hard was it?Spotters,drivers,posters come on it was turkey shoot.
Yes there was a 1% or slim chance some six-pack Joe might of had a chance.
Well I'm off day dreaming of thet big bull I'm gonna get come shooting light on the 26th.
Be Safe all
BBJ
I realy don't give a rats azz about Mossback(other than they have some cool horn porn) or this bull.As for my coment it was directed at your feverish defense of their tactics.I can realy honestly say WHOOP TEE DODO as for you following these guys around trying to pick up a bone,to me you sound like a Don King.
We all remember the guy that shot other huge bull for team Mossback,I watched the video what a sickning thing to witness.The story was another dissgusting issue that guy did the same thing and I wouldn't even classified him as a hunter.
Yeah I have been to Utah and the day they wouldn't sell me a can of Copenhagen and a beer on Sunday Afternoon,I hauled my azz back home to Montana.
Stealthycat,
I comend you on your honesty and the guts to do what you did alot of guys would not.
Hillbilly,
Glad you made home safe and sound,another missed opprtunity,I will catch ya next year give me some dates when you are planning.
Nathan,
How is this diffrent yeah it was public land,realy how hard was it?Spotters,drivers,posters come on it was turkey shoot.
Yes there was a 1% or slim chance some six-pack Joe might of had a chance.
Well I'm off day dreaming of thet big bull I'm gonna get come shooting light on the 26th.
Be Safe all
BBJ
10-02-2008, 09:03 AM
#32
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: On an Island in Vermont
Posts: 22,585
RE: Spider bull has been killed
ORIGINAL: BareBack Jack
Stealthycat,
I comend you on your honesty and the guts to do what you did alot of guys would not.
Stealthycat,
I comend you on your honesty and the guts to do what you did alot of guys would not.
10-02-2008, 09:09 AM
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,813
RE: Spider bull has been killed
ORIGINAL: CAelknuts
Hillbillyhunter, perhaps you should pay a little more attention to what others write. I never did say "absolutely not" about the things they did or didn't do. I was there, and saw more than just about anyone else who is posting on here. They struck me as decent and ethical hunters from what I saw, and that is more than I can say about some of the DIY hunters who I encountered. I'm simply passing along observations of what I saw, and the opinions I developed as a result of my observations. Where you got the "absolutely not" comment is beyond me. As for blocking roads, I spoke with one of the people involved with some trees being cut down, and he told me in no uncertain terms it was done by the landowner because he didn't want everyone driving on roads that led through the middle of his property. I don't have a problem with that, but do have a problem with people who couldn't even find their way to the unit today saying it was someone else. That's nothing more than clueless speculation.
Barebackjack, It's interesting that you think the fact that I'm from California explains my viewpoint. I don't know where you're from, or care. I guess you don't realize, or perhaps you don't care, that I might be the only person posting about this elk who was actually elk hunting in the same unit, in the same places as the Mossback guides and hunter, along with quite a few other draw tag hunters. In case you don't quite comprehend what I just said -- I WAS THERE. Were you? I saw these guys hunting, I know where they hunted and have a good idea of how they hunted. I ran into them a couple times, either in town when buying supplies or out in the field. We drove past each others camps on our way to places we were each hunting many days. I even talked to them a few times (god forbid!) about not only the spider bull, but some other nice bulls too. So, do you get it that I have a little different perspective than just about everyone else who is posting on here?
Denny Austad arrived the evening of August 30th from what I was told, and he was still hunting hard when my season ended on September 12th. I never ran into any of the Mossback guides or Mr. Austad out riding quads fifteen minutes after shooting light in the morning, but I did have more encounters with DIY hunter's possees like that than I'd have preferred. More than a few of the draw tag hunters had multiple helpers, heck I even hadone buddy along with me. The times that I went past the Mossback camp, I never saw more than five or six trucks there, and that was at times when they were in camp, i.e. at night. These guys busted their butts and hunted hard, including Mr. Austad. I say that from being there and observing them, not from hundreds or thousands of miles away with nothing more than an opinion, like some others on here are doing.
I wasn't there yesterday when they killed that bull, but from what I saw when I was there, the guys in the picture were probably the entire crew that was hunting him. And that doesn't make them all that different than some of the other hunters who had elk tags on Monroe, DIY or guided.
You may be biased against my comments because I'm from California. That just indicates that you're a closed minded individual. The fact that you're commmenting on a situation of which you have no first hand experience proves that it doesn't matter where you're from to be clueless. You are proving that clueless people live in states other than California. I imagine that all fifty states (57 states if you're Mr. Obama) have clueless people with opinions. You don't even have a clue where they were camped, hunted, missed the bull last week or killed him yesterday, other than the unit name and state. I have firsthand knowlege of nearly every one of those aspects that I just mentioned, so how long do you care to debate this?
Hillbillyhunter, perhaps you should pay a little more attention to what others write. I never did say "absolutely not" about the things they did or didn't do. I was there, and saw more than just about anyone else who is posting on here. They struck me as decent and ethical hunters from what I saw, and that is more than I can say about some of the DIY hunters who I encountered. I'm simply passing along observations of what I saw, and the opinions I developed as a result of my observations. Where you got the "absolutely not" comment is beyond me. As for blocking roads, I spoke with one of the people involved with some trees being cut down, and he told me in no uncertain terms it was done by the landowner because he didn't want everyone driving on roads that led through the middle of his property. I don't have a problem with that, but do have a problem with people who couldn't even find their way to the unit today saying it was someone else. That's nothing more than clueless speculation.
Barebackjack, It's interesting that you think the fact that I'm from California explains my viewpoint. I don't know where you're from, or care. I guess you don't realize, or perhaps you don't care, that I might be the only person posting about this elk who was actually elk hunting in the same unit, in the same places as the Mossback guides and hunter, along with quite a few other draw tag hunters. In case you don't quite comprehend what I just said -- I WAS THERE. Were you? I saw these guys hunting, I know where they hunted and have a good idea of how they hunted. I ran into them a couple times, either in town when buying supplies or out in the field. We drove past each others camps on our way to places we were each hunting many days. I even talked to them a few times (god forbid!) about not only the spider bull, but some other nice bulls too. So, do you get it that I have a little different perspective than just about everyone else who is posting on here?
Denny Austad arrived the evening of August 30th from what I was told, and he was still hunting hard when my season ended on September 12th. I never ran into any of the Mossback guides or Mr. Austad out riding quads fifteen minutes after shooting light in the morning, but I did have more encounters with DIY hunter's possees like that than I'd have preferred. More than a few of the draw tag hunters had multiple helpers, heck I even hadone buddy along with me. The times that I went past the Mossback camp, I never saw more than five or six trucks there, and that was at times when they were in camp, i.e. at night. These guys busted their butts and hunted hard, including Mr. Austad. I say that from being there and observing them, not from hundreds or thousands of miles away with nothing more than an opinion, like some others on here are doing.
I wasn't there yesterday when they killed that bull, but from what I saw when I was there, the guys in the picture were probably the entire crew that was hunting him. And that doesn't make them all that different than some of the other hunters who had elk tags on Monroe, DIY or guided.
You may be biased against my comments because I'm from California. That just indicates that you're a closed minded individual. The fact that you're commmenting on a situation of which you have no first hand experience proves that it doesn't matter where you're from to be clueless. You are proving that clueless people live in states other than California. I imagine that all fifty states (57 states if you're Mr. Obama) have clueless people with opinions. You don't even have a clue where they were camped, hunted, missed the bull last week or killed him yesterday, other than the unit name and state. I have firsthand knowlege of nearly every one of those aspects that I just mentioned, so how long do you care to debate this?
BTW, i heard about the tatics those guys use, long before the spider bull was taken.
Also, it should be against the law, to be able to huntlonger, just because your rich! We all own those animials, and having money should NOT alow you to be able to hunt longer than me, just because i can't pony up the $$$.
DM
10-02-2008, 10:10 AM
#34
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Kalispell, MT
Posts: 171
RE: Spider bull has been killed
incredible to me that this stupid bull has caused this much fussing amongst elk hunters...
the tactics employed are NOTHIGN compared to some "hunters" here in Montana..remember the firing line (Gardner)? where you need not even have a gun to get an elk? just sneakers and a tag and first to the bull...or late season pot shots at herds of elk in Ennis (hunters on all four sides of a field shooting into a herd scared to death in the middle of the field...(geniuses shooting towards eachother
)
or guys that hunt IN Yellowstone...
there is nothign unique to having folk help you...Personally take people out every year from (no I am not a guide) Wisconsin or Washington, etc. who have dreamed of hunting elk, and I take them to my haunts as I know I can get them into elk, and guess what, we always do...
I did the scouting, we use my horses, and my tents, etc. etc.
do we kill the biggest bulls in the land, nope, but I GUARANTEE those guys are as excited about the bulls they shoot as this guy is about his world record...for the last two years I did not even bring a weapon, just helped them...
Hunting is what you make it...and your personal joy is just that personal...Dont like what Denny/Doyle did, well that is your right, but it is also his right to do what he did...I do the same thing for free for others (usually co-workers), and yes we routinely see 380+ bulls every year and this year was no exception...and yes, all public land...in Montana...
lots of people bloviate about lack of good bulls and or lack ofpublic land, but 10% of those that complain ever get out of their truck to look for them...
the tactics employed are NOTHIGN compared to some "hunters" here in Montana..remember the firing line (Gardner)? where you need not even have a gun to get an elk? just sneakers and a tag and first to the bull...or late season pot shots at herds of elk in Ennis (hunters on all four sides of a field shooting into a herd scared to death in the middle of the field...(geniuses shooting towards eachother
)or guys that hunt IN Yellowstone...
there is nothign unique to having folk help you...Personally take people out every year from (no I am not a guide) Wisconsin or Washington, etc. who have dreamed of hunting elk, and I take them to my haunts as I know I can get them into elk, and guess what, we always do...
I did the scouting, we use my horses, and my tents, etc. etc.
do we kill the biggest bulls in the land, nope, but I GUARANTEE those guys are as excited about the bulls they shoot as this guy is about his world record...for the last two years I did not even bring a weapon, just helped them...
Hunting is what you make it...and your personal joy is just that personal...Dont like what Denny/Doyle did, well that is your right, but it is also his right to do what he did...I do the same thing for free for others (usually co-workers), and yes we routinely see 380+ bulls every year and this year was no exception...and yes, all public land...in Montana...
lots of people bloviate about lack of good bulls and or lack ofpublic land, but 10% of those that complain ever get out of their truck to look for them...
10-02-2008, 11:14 AM
#36
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Moccasin, Montana
Posts: 1,835
RE: Spider bull has been killed
lots of people bloviate about lack of good bulls and or lack ofpublic land, but 10% of those that complain ever get out of their truck to look for them...
BBJ
10-02-2008, 01:08 PM
#37
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ELK GROVE CA USA
Posts: 1,251
RE: Spider bull has been killed
CAelk....
congrats on getting that tag....not easy....did you have success while hunting there?
you have not specifically said it...so i will ask......
you are saying that in your conversations with the mossback members that, IYO, they would not block roads and do any other tactic's others have posted to get thier client that bull?
congrats on getting that tag....not easy....did you have success while hunting there?
you have not specifically said it...so i will ask......
you are saying that in your conversations with the mossback members that, IYO, they would not block roads and do any other tactic's others have posted to get thier client that bull?
10-02-2008, 01:37 PM
#38
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 112
RE: Spider bull has been killed
I always find it interesting to see how others debate a point, or subject. So often, when someone doesn't like another viewpoint, they start attacking the person whom they're debating. Sorta like the way a few of you are now doing on this thread. I always enjoy discussing and/or debating with other people (just ask my wife. She thinks I should have been a lawyer.) but really only when the other party puts some thought into what they have to say. Whena discussion degenerates into the gutter with personal attacks that don't have a lot to do with the discussion, it gets boring and off topic, and isn't worth continuing.
Realize, I have no vested interest in speaking favorably of Mossback or their hunter/client. They're not friends of mine, nor do I try tofollow them around and try to ride their coattails. I simply stated what I observed, as opposed to some others who 'heard' something. So often, that hearsay is from someone with an ax to grind or some other jealousy to vent, so they speak unkindly of others. Your best friend's mother's hairdresser's butcher might not know what he's talking about, but some of you seem to want to believe it as gospel.
Unless you've actually seen some of this stuff yourselves, with your own eyes, don't you think it makes more sense to withhold comment? I have tried to comment on what I've actually observed, rather than what I've heard via hearsay. No, I don't live in Richfield, Monroe, Koosheram or anywhere else near there. Ionly spent two weeks camping south of Manning Meadows Reservoir and hunting over much of the northern part of the unit. As for following them around, I did run into theirtrucks parked in areas several times, and when I did I always went somewhere else, usually at least several miles away. Contrary to what was said, neither was following the other around. Again, that's a baseless comment that was made without any basis in fact. If others would actually base their comments on direct expereince instead of hearsay, I'd give their comments much greater weight. At the same time, I'm not going to personally attack people with other viewpoints just because I don't agree with them or like what they say.
I don't really have much interest in continuing this debate, so probably won't have a lot more to say. Have a great day and fall!
Realize, I have no vested interest in speaking favorably of Mossback or their hunter/client. They're not friends of mine, nor do I try tofollow them around and try to ride their coattails. I simply stated what I observed, as opposed to some others who 'heard' something. So often, that hearsay is from someone with an ax to grind or some other jealousy to vent, so they speak unkindly of others. Your best friend's mother's hairdresser's butcher might not know what he's talking about, but some of you seem to want to believe it as gospel.
Unless you've actually seen some of this stuff yourselves, with your own eyes, don't you think it makes more sense to withhold comment? I have tried to comment on what I've actually observed, rather than what I've heard via hearsay. No, I don't live in Richfield, Monroe, Koosheram or anywhere else near there. Ionly spent two weeks camping south of Manning Meadows Reservoir and hunting over much of the northern part of the unit. As for following them around, I did run into theirtrucks parked in areas several times, and when I did I always went somewhere else, usually at least several miles away. Contrary to what was said, neither was following the other around. Again, that's a baseless comment that was made without any basis in fact. If others would actually base their comments on direct expereince instead of hearsay, I'd give their comments much greater weight. At the same time, I'm not going to personally attack people with other viewpoints just because I don't agree with them or like what they say.
I don't really have much interest in continuing this debate, so probably won't have a lot more to say. Have a great day and fall!
10-02-2008, 01:50 PM
#39
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 112
RE: Spider bull has been killed
JNTURK, we were both typing at the same time, so I didn't see your post until after I'd hit the send button. To answer your first question, yes I had a lot of success. I did not kill a bull, but not shooting was my choice. I passed up several shot opportunities at nice 6x6 bulls within very reasonable range. When I showed my son a picture I took of one of the bulls, he asked if I was out of my freaking mind. Who knows, perhaps I was. Letting a 330s class bull walk away when he's broadside at 28 yards isn't something most hunters would do. I did, but don't have regrets about it. I also let a 360s class bull go without loosing an arrow from 22 yards, as he was trotting and I wasn't going to shoot at a quickly moving elk. I probably would have made a clean killing shot, but in my mind, "probably" isn't a good enough excuse to let an arrow fly.
To answer your second question; I don't know what they would or wouldn't do. I didn't talk to them about those things, and didn't see them block any roads. I did see a few of their trucks parked in areas where they were hunting, and anyone could have gone right in there too, if they were so inclined. They certainly weren't blocking any access where I saw them parked. Their trucks were off to the side of the road where anyone could drive past. I did come across a road that was blocked by felled trees. I asked a friend of mine (someone who does live there and is on the mountain a lot)about it, and he told me that he knows the landowner who cut the trees down, that the landowner told him he cut the trees down and why he did it. Honestly, where those trees were felled, anyone could have hunted in there if they wanted, simply by parking their truck and walking on the road. They could have also just driven around to the next road a mile or so away, and come in from the other side, at least until hitting the landowners property from the other side. In summary, I don't know or have an opinion on what they'd do since I didn't see them do any of the stuff that's been alleged. I will say that if anyone had tried to stop me from going somewhere I wanted to hunt, they'd have been disappointed in their efforts. I heard all the same stories that are being said on here before I left, so I was prepared for the worst. I assure you that if anyone had been heavy handed in their efforts to discourage me, they'd have quickly found out they were picking the wrong hombre to intimidate.
I haven't heard anyone else who has alleged this stuff say they've had direct, first hand experience with them doing what's been alleged, either.
I hope that answers your questions.
To answer your second question; I don't know what they would or wouldn't do. I didn't talk to them about those things, and didn't see them block any roads. I did see a few of their trucks parked in areas where they were hunting, and anyone could have gone right in there too, if they were so inclined. They certainly weren't blocking any access where I saw them parked. Their trucks were off to the side of the road where anyone could drive past. I did come across a road that was blocked by felled trees. I asked a friend of mine (someone who does live there and is on the mountain a lot)about it, and he told me that he knows the landowner who cut the trees down, that the landowner told him he cut the trees down and why he did it. Honestly, where those trees were felled, anyone could have hunted in there if they wanted, simply by parking their truck and walking on the road. They could have also just driven around to the next road a mile or so away, and come in from the other side, at least until hitting the landowners property from the other side. In summary, I don't know or have an opinion on what they'd do since I didn't see them do any of the stuff that's been alleged. I will say that if anyone had tried to stop me from going somewhere I wanted to hunt, they'd have been disappointed in their efforts. I heard all the same stories that are being said on here before I left, so I was prepared for the worst. I assure you that if anyone had been heavy handed in their efforts to discourage me, they'd have quickly found out they were picking the wrong hombre to intimidate.
I haven't heard anyone else who has alleged this stuff say they've had direct, first hand experience with them doing what's been alleged, either.
I hope that answers your questions.
10-02-2008, 02:29 PM
#40
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nocona, Texas
Posts: 248
RE: Spider bull has been killed
Just so I am clear....I never said that these guys did anything illegal. Nor did I impune their integrity or any one else's who had posted to this thread.
If it wouldn't make you a little "uneasy" to hunt with a small army of guides/spotters that are only there in order to track and spot and report back to you in order to get you on a specific bull....twice....then CA it sounds like you have a future in hunting with that MB group. Good hunting to ya! Hope you get what you want and enjoy the he!! of it!!!! Just realize that kind of hunt is not for every one. Forget the dollar values involved.For me it has nothing to do with the money.And it doesn't matter that it was on public land either.
I just said that it kind of stuck in my craw is all. To each his own.
I just bet that hunter is fair to bursting with pride over his trophy! I bet he has told his hunting story, of his persistance and diligence, not to mention his intestinal fortitude, over and over by now. I bet he could care less what I or any of you think about his kill. He has his opinion of his hunt. Just like CA does. Just as all of us do.
If some 14 year old had taken that bull right out from under them? Priceless.
If it wouldn't make you a little "uneasy" to hunt with a small army of guides/spotters that are only there in order to track and spot and report back to you in order to get you on a specific bull....twice....then CA it sounds like you have a future in hunting with that MB group. Good hunting to ya! Hope you get what you want and enjoy the he!! of it!!!! Just realize that kind of hunt is not for every one. Forget the dollar values involved.For me it has nothing to do with the money.And it doesn't matter that it was on public land either.
I just said that it kind of stuck in my craw is all. To each his own.
I just bet that hunter is fair to bursting with pride over his trophy! I bet he has told his hunting story, of his persistance and diligence, not to mention his intestinal fortitude, over and over by now. I bet he could care less what I or any of you think about his kill. He has his opinion of his hunt. Just like CA does. Just as all of us do.
If some 14 year old had taken that bull right out from under them? Priceless.
