Champlain Islander

Stealthy you are reaching. You are a sportsman not God. Nature can be both beautiful and cruel. The balance of nature must be allowed to occur. When man gets involved it upsets what is supposed to happen. Every wild animal that dies other than by gun shot probably dies a painful and lingering death. Just because you see the limping deer doesn't give you the right to kill it under the guise of being humane. I do agree with you that commercialization has impacted the sport and often taints the proud heritage. Unfortunately that falls in line with society in general and fight it as you will… it won’t change.

Alsatian

I don't entirely disagree with you on this point. I will say that if this gets you revved up, however, and evidently it does, there must be a GREAT GREAT deal about hunting and hunters today that gets you upset. How do you feel about automated feeders? Food plots? Trailcams? I just try to ignore it -- because it is clear to me that I cannot change it -- and pay attention to my own hunting and try to take pleasure in doing that in a way that gives me satisfaction.

Champlain Islander

Good point and post Alsatian.

npaden

You are way off base here. The people doing those things are not hunters and we need to do a MUCH better job letting the non-hunting public know that. If they are breaking the law theyare criminals, not hunters, and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

You have a ton of "I feel" and "I think" and "I believe"comments in that last diatribe. I'm glad you can read everyone's minds because I've actually mentioned the new world record elk to several non-hunters and showed them the pictures on the internet and their general comments were more along the lines of "WOW" and "HE's HUGE" and things like that. Not once did I hear - "that makes me want to puke and I hate hunters for what they did to that poor little bull" even when I mentioned that the guy probably ended up paying $250,000 to hunt him. Notice I said "hunt" him because until the bull was on the ground there was always a chance that another hunter could have closed the deal on him instead.

I'm glad you can play judge and jury on whether an animal is going to make it or not though. With the horrible trail cameras that folks are using now it is amazing how some have documented how injured animals are able to survive some unbelievable injuries. Broken legs, huge gaping wounds, etc. that you see healing up over a period of weeks and months. The laws are there for a reason, they should be followed.

tangozulu

I am a Hunter. This is neither apology nor boast. It is simply a fact. I'm glad of it, immensely grateful, in fact-but constantly humbled by the burden of responsibility it imposes on me.
Many of my most meaningful experinces happened while afield. Almost everything I like about myself goes back, one way or another, to hunting. On the other hand, my most shameful failures were during hunts too-so hunting has contributed to whatever moral maturity I might have attained. I could never have been so succesful a biologist, so passionate an environmentalistor so thoughtful a writer had I never ventured into the wild as a preditor.
Kevin Van Tighem from "Home Range"- writings on conservation.

I too am a hunter, an unappologetic trophy hunter.
If what is so disscusting about this entire episode in not appent.............I can't explain it to you.

MTdream

Came across this on Monster Muleys...thought i would post here...

It is Denny Austads son who is writing it...



". This is certainly not "high fence" hunting in an enclosure...­ go check out map of the area in Utah, start looking at the terrain, and dense trees and downfall, and raw square miles. Since it was my dad, I am probably biased (how's that for randomness of blogs folks, I don't even hunt, I am just searching for pictures too since I got word from Mom on the success tonight. Something about "over 500").
Was Mossback guides a help in finding this bull, absolutely. Was donating to the State of Utah in a live fund raising auction to get the "Governors tag" a help with flexible dates and long season, not deniable. Does that make it "fair"...­ I don't know, it is the system presented, and Dad only seeks the best at this stage in his life, be it wine, hunts, or salmon with green chile cream sauce.
But easy, fenced, come-and-go hunt,...not the case. After the 1st two weeks of straight hunting he came back so tired and he had to rest another 2 weeks before going out again. Also recognize that Dad spent months building the rifle used, his own personal design and unique caliber. He has a passion about all aspects of the hunt and preparation. He fires more practice shots in preparation for a single hunt then most do in a lifetime of hunting. 3 months of "training" and lost 20+ pounds to make sure he could out climb the guides. You should watch him gut and dress an animal (not letting the guides do it cause they don't get as much meat as he does), all the major organs saved and used for his dog if we can't eat them. Filleting fish, the same way, never seen his equal on efficiency and minimal waste.

Would it be nice if 1st time hunter got this bull. Well that is certainly the "root for the underdog" ethic in US, and would be cool story. Both Dad and I would smile in amazement, and have another glass of the grape. But instead, a poor boy from Mankato, Minnesota who has hunted and fished since he could walk, donating to old folks home what he could not eat as a young boy, and is now a self-made millionaire, donating his own forms of business advice and community service, trying to pack in as many high-end hunts as remains in this life (after winning the battle on...­ never mind this is too personal and over the top...&shy. But you know, with a fine California Cabernet, that is a nice story too. He will even give you a bottle or two to take home, very tasty stuff I might add.

Eccentric? yes. Everyone's cup of tea? Maybe not. But Easy? No. Ethic of Hunting (with a capital "H" for those that read his old "Three Peat" article in Trophy Hunter Magazine)...­ well that's a lot lot higher bar then just a "fence discussion". But if that is your binary test, it still an easy leap. Yes.
The one good thing about your overly harsh post is that having discussion on "raising the bar" on hunting ethics (respect for the land/landowner, the animal, the clean kill, the meat, gun safety, drink after the hunt not during)...good topic. I hope this will result in a higher fence in this "standard" discussion within the brotherhood of the fraternal order of...­
Hi Allen --thanks for the link, do you read this blog? You need to get back to the west. This blog stuff is to disconnected...
Wayne."

stealthycat II

I disagree 100%

I am a sportsman BY God's will, I am a steward for all that He's given us. Its my opinion that its 100% wrong to allow suffering when you can stop it.

legal does not make ethical


legal was what happened with the Spider bull and look how wrong it was.


I can change things, and yes, there is much wrong with what hunting has become and if it isn't righted, we'll lose it

how naive .... you cannot disassociate yourselves from them

then you didn't tell them how it went down, because if you had, no way they'd agree with you I'm 100% confident of that

Laws have many reasons but like I've already shown, they do not make right and wrong, ethical and non-ethical



exactly



Denny Austads son ...... I would not expect him to write any less but I saw much that was written that affirms to me this wasn't hunting. What is legal is not what is ethical and doesn't define fair chase regardles and thats the opinion I hold.

Pandora's box has been opened for a while now, this Spider bull is just another something that has come out of it.

CAelknuts

then you didn't tell them how it went down, because if you had, no way they'd agree with you I'm 100% confident of that



It would certainly be interestingto hear (but I donot want to read it here)how the two of you would show pictures to others and explain the story of this hunt. I can almost guarantee that if a person heard the story before seeing the pictures, they'd never know they were being told about the same elk. One guy would say "check this elk out, let me tell you about him." The other guy would say "Here's an example of everything that is wrong with hunting, what a travesty." You each color the perception of the non-hunting public that you talk to, think about what you want them to come away with. This is part of why I say that Stealthy is one of those who damage hunting, he can't wait to tell others about anything that he perceives to be wrong. He views himself as the thought and ethics police, judge, jury........and executioner.

Different people view this particualar elk and the hunt for him, as well as some other prominent hunts, in different ways. Some view them in a negative light before the hunt even takes place. Others are interested in those same hunts and can't wait to see if the hunter scores, and if so, how big of a buck or bull he got. I didn't see the guys who were hunting this bull all that often during the twelve days I was hunting up there, but I don't think a single other person posting on this saw them at all, not once. What I'm trying to convey is thatI didn't see themhunt any different, or much different, than many others up there.I saw some thingsgoing on up on Monroe that bothered me, but I didn't see Mr. Austad or the Mossback crew doing those things. They were other guys who were DIY hunting, just like me. I hunted differently than most others I saw while on Monroe, but that was my choice. I had a one time tag, and was going to hunt the way I do, and enjoy every minute of my time up there. That is and was nobody else's business unless I wanted to share it with them, which of course I did do with hundreds of others on bowsite and monster muleys. If you ever read those posts, you'd see things in a positive light, without all the negativity that is being posted by a few on here.

Stealthy doesn't want to "get it" that he's one of hunting's threats. He could be an ambassador for the sport, he obviously loves it and I expect that he's probably a highly ethical hunter. But, instead of telling others how great hunting is, and sharing the experiences that make it so great; he can't wait to tell people about everything he thinks is wrong with hunting. If you doubt me, just read any or all of his posts on this subjector just about any other. Negativity runs through 95% of his posts. I don't remember who the poster is that made the post that I quoted at the top with Stealthy's response, but I imagine that guy tells people about the positives of hunting and doesn't bias others toward focusing on the negatives like Stealthy does. Contrary to what Stealthy thinks, almost nobody in the non-hunting public knows anything about this bull, and most of them probably don't care, as long as the hunt for the bull was reasonable and nothing too "out there" occured. I think that most reasonable people who don't hunt would find this hunt OK if they heard the details, it's other hunters who seem to have such a problem with it. So, the perception of a non-hunter is going to be formed in part by how a hunter talks about the hunt for any of these governor's tag hunts. If you're positive in your presentation, they'll be positive. If you're negative, then they'll be convinced that it was bad.

This will be the very last post I make on this topic, as I'm tired of debating it, and especially with Stealthy. What some of you don't realize is thatStealthy thrives off these debates. He'll lure you in, and then incessantly debate what is right or wrong. If you care to debate him, you always have to take the positive side, becuase he always claims the negative. Along the way, he'll demonstrate how he and his view of how things should be done are "the way" and how others who don't do it like he does are from the Dark Side. Eventually, these discussions become nothing more than circle jerks, which is probably what he's seeking anyway. He's lured me in before, but nowadays I try to just stay involved long enough to amuse myself and make a few points for people to consider and then go away. Some of you might be willing to entertain him longer, and if so, I'll pray for you.

stealthycat II

I'm anti-hunting? I mean my SIDES are hurting that's so funny.

CAelknuts I'm not the only one that thinks what happened with the spider bull pukes. You read MM don't you? A heck of a lot of people hate what happened over there too, and many here do.

If you don't take a stand on what is right and wrong, especially for our sport of hunting, you're worthless to the next generation that might not even HAVE hunting.

I make positive posts, but yeah, I'll hammer every post I see that's unethical and anti-hunting because speaking out against those things is saying no, I'm not accepting it, I won't condone it and it doesn't belong in my sport.

CAelknuts I'll fight for hunting nail and tooth. You sit back and do nothing, that's fine. At least I can say I made a stance on what is and isn't hunting, I took a side, drew a line and I can defend to the core what I believe.

I think that means something

muley699

I don't subscribe to the "we all must stick togather" theory regarding hunting. I know crap when I see it, and this whole spider bull scenerio highlights the worst in hunting plain and simple. I really don't know what to say to folks who are not disgusted by this dog and pony show. What I do know as that I will NEVER stick by high fence "hunting" etc. Another thing I don't understand is this "their not hunters" when talking about poaching etc. What, they are hunters until they break the law then suddenly they are not hunters? That might be a convienent separation for hunters, but not an accurate one. I also believe that the commercialization of hunting poses a much larger threat to hunting than does the Anti-hunting community. Until honest debate ishad over these issues, threads like this are fairly meaningless.[&o]