Mountain States Elk Hunting Opportunities, Something Wicked Your Way Comes
09-23-2008, 11:25 AM
#1
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: North Central Idaho
Posts: 539
Mountain States Elk Hunting Opportunities, Something Wicked Your Way Comes
Just returned from guiding elk hunters for a 7 day hunt here in Central Idaho. Lots of nice bulls taken in the area we hunted last year, and lots of elk sign on trips in this summer and Labor day weekend. I went in 2 days ahead of the hunters on the 12th, and was met with not elk sign but wolves. A large wolf pack had come into the area and either killed or ran off almost every game animal in a 10x10 mile area. We hunted hard, covered almost every square inch of the country, and found only very little sign, and no sign that any elk were living in the area, only running through(no back and forth tracks). The hunters said they still had fun, but we know they were disappointed, and the outfitter is planning to cease all elk hunting trips for this unit in the future. We found lots of cow and calf elk skulls and kills with noses chewed off (indicator of wolves) and also 2 dead wolves with holes in skulls where other wolves had killed their own. In total we saw only 3 whitetail in an area of pristine elk, moose, and deer habitat. What a waste of great wild game habitat. Sportsman and wildlife agencies have worked hard and spent an untold amount of money and time to create the game herds in Idaho over the last century, only to have it all destroyed in a decade through the deceit and lies of the wolf reintroduction program, only 150 wolves proposed, now at least a few thousand, and no management plan being allowed due to 1 enviro judge in Montana, its a shame, and should be a crime. Where will the compensation come for the businesses lost and way of life destroyed by the misguided passions of a few. Lots of prime elk ground has been devistated, and what hasn't been yet will soon, trust me on that, I have moved my hunting from unit to unit to stay ahead of the wolves, but am running out of options now.
We were mad 4 years ago, we are taking matters into our own hands at this point. Don't give us any more BS about the elk adjusting, or the wolf populations controlling themselves, the only way out of this is through a massive thinning of wolf numbers, and elk recovery programs. Or maybe we should just give in and allow our ways of live and hunting to end, and our mountains to become dead zones where only hungry predators roam. If we all set back and do nothing, thats what will happen over the next 10 years.
We were mad 4 years ago, we are taking matters into our own hands at this point. Don't give us any more BS about the elk adjusting, or the wolf populations controlling themselves, the only way out of this is through a massive thinning of wolf numbers, and elk recovery programs. Or maybe we should just give in and allow our ways of live and hunting to end, and our mountains to become dead zones where only hungry predators roam. If we all set back and do nothing, thats what will happen over the next 10 years.
09-23-2008, 12:58 PM
#2
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 125
RE: Mountain States Elk Hunting Opportunities, Something Wicked Your Way Comes
This is completely disgusting! If I was a law maker, or even a large Idaho business I would be embarrassed.Even if you arenot a hunter, at least take a little pride in your natural environment. I made a bit of a road trip last year up through Yellowstone, then over through Salmon ID and back. I was told I would have to hike back in a couple of miles or so to see the wolves. Not so, I saw 12 in one day hanging out on the road. It appears that the elk are moving closer to humans for protection, but the wolves are picking up on this. They had a nice 5x6 down less than 1/2 mile from the lodge, right on the road. I didn't see one moose in three days. In Salmon Idaho, spendt a day and a half looking for elk. Didn't even see a dry elk turd.
The sad truth is that it wont be long until the wolves move into Utah. Notby introduction through some tree-hugger living in SoCal, but through migration as they look for a new food source. What can be done?
The sad truth is that it wont be long until the wolves move into Utah. Notby introduction through some tree-hugger living in SoCal, but through migration as they look for a new food source. What can be done?
09-23-2008, 01:05 PM
#3
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: On an Island in Vermont
Posts: 22,594
RE: Mountain States Elk Hunting Opportunities, Something Wicked Your Way Comes
Bad luck there Rob. It must be disheartening to see how much the environment can be screwed up by the misguided opinions a few people. Somehow I am surprised the wolf pack got to the size and range that it has in such a short time. With all the ranches you would have thought farmers would have kept them down. Nature has a way to balance itself assuming man doesn’t get involved. With wild game hunting as a form of population to habitat control it seems ridiculous to re-introduce an efficient predator like a wolf and not have the same standards. Good luck for the future and hopefully this ridiculous re-introduction will stop. As an interesting side note some groups are also looking to re-introduce them to the vast stretches of Maine too.
09-23-2008, 03:52 PM
#4
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 310
RE: Mountain States Elk Hunting Opportunities, Something Wicked Your Way Comes
I'm sure this will make you all happy then.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080923/ap_on_re_us/wolf_lawsuit
Tue Sep 23, 9:39 AM ET[/i] BILLINGS, Mont. - Federal wildlife officials have asked a judge to put gray wolves in the Northern Rockies back on the endangered species list — a sharp reversal from the government's prior contention that the animals were thriving.
Attorneys for the Fish and Wildlife Service asked U.S. District Judge Donald Molloy in Missoula to vacate the agency's February finding that more than 1,400 wolves in the region no longer needed federal protection.
The government's request Monday follows a July injunction in which Molloy had blocked plans for public wolf hunts this fall in Montana, Wyoming and Idaho pending resolution of a lawsuit by environmentalists.
"What we want to do is.....
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080923/ap_on_re_us/wolf_lawsuit
Tue Sep 23, 9:39 AM ET[/i] BILLINGS, Mont. - Federal wildlife officials have asked a judge to put gray wolves in the Northern Rockies back on the endangered species list — a sharp reversal from the government's prior contention that the animals were thriving.
Attorneys for the Fish and Wildlife Service asked U.S. District Judge Donald Molloy in Missoula to vacate the agency's February finding that more than 1,400 wolves in the region no longer needed federal protection.
The government's request Monday follows a July injunction in which Molloy had blocked plans for public wolf hunts this fall in Montana, Wyoming and Idaho pending resolution of a lawsuit by environmentalists.
"What we want to do is.....
09-23-2008, 10:09 PM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,572
RE: Mountain States Elk Hunting Opportunities, Something Wicked Your Way Comes
ORIGINAL: millagerobert
Just returned from guiding elk hunters for a 7 day hunt here in Central Idaho. Lots of nice bulls taken in the area we hunted last year, and lots of elk sign on trips in this summer and Labor day weekend. I went in 2 days ahead of the hunters on the 12th, and was met with not elk sign but wolves. A large wolf pack had come into the area and either killed or ran off almost every game animal in a 10x10 mile area. We hunted hard, covered almost every square inch of the country, and found only very little sign, and no sign that any elk were living in the area, only running through(no back and forth tracks). The hunters said they still had fun, but we know they were disappointed, and the outfitter is planning to cease all elk hunting trips for this unit in the future. We found lots of cow and calf elk skulls and kills with noses chewed off (indicator of wolves) and also 2 dead wolves with holes in skulls where other wolves had killed their own. In total we saw only 3 whitetail in an area of pristine elk, moose, and deer habitat. What a waste of great wild game habitat. Sportsman and wildlife agencies have worked hard and spent an untold amount of money and time to create the game herds in Idaho over the last century, only to have it all destroyed in a decade through the deceit and lies of the wolf reintroduction program, only 150 wolves proposed, now at least a few thousand, and no management plan being allowed due to 1 enviro judge in Montana, its a shame, and should be a crime. Where will the compensation come for the businesses lost and way of life destroyed by the misguided passions of a few. Lots of prime elk ground has been devistated, and what hasn't been yet will soon, trust me on that, I have moved my hunting from unit to unit to stay ahead of the wolves, but am running out of options now.
We were mad 4 years ago, we are taking matters into our own hands at this point. Don't give us any more BS about the elk adjusting, or the wolf populations controlling themselves, the only way out of this is through a massive thinning of wolf numbers, and elk recovery programs. Or maybe we should just give in and allow our ways of live and hunting to end, and our mountains to become dead zones where only hungry predators roam. If we all set back and do nothing, thats what will happen over the next 10 years.
Just returned from guiding elk hunters for a 7 day hunt here in Central Idaho. Lots of nice bulls taken in the area we hunted last year, and lots of elk sign on trips in this summer and Labor day weekend. I went in 2 days ahead of the hunters on the 12th, and was met with not elk sign but wolves. A large wolf pack had come into the area and either killed or ran off almost every game animal in a 10x10 mile area. We hunted hard, covered almost every square inch of the country, and found only very little sign, and no sign that any elk were living in the area, only running through(no back and forth tracks). The hunters said they still had fun, but we know they were disappointed, and the outfitter is planning to cease all elk hunting trips for this unit in the future. We found lots of cow and calf elk skulls and kills with noses chewed off (indicator of wolves) and also 2 dead wolves with holes in skulls where other wolves had killed their own. In total we saw only 3 whitetail in an area of pristine elk, moose, and deer habitat. What a waste of great wild game habitat. Sportsman and wildlife agencies have worked hard and spent an untold amount of money and time to create the game herds in Idaho over the last century, only to have it all destroyed in a decade through the deceit and lies of the wolf reintroduction program, only 150 wolves proposed, now at least a few thousand, and no management plan being allowed due to 1 enviro judge in Montana, its a shame, and should be a crime. Where will the compensation come for the businesses lost and way of life destroyed by the misguided passions of a few. Lots of prime elk ground has been devistated, and what hasn't been yet will soon, trust me on that, I have moved my hunting from unit to unit to stay ahead of the wolves, but am running out of options now.
We were mad 4 years ago, we are taking matters into our own hands at this point. Don't give us any more BS about the elk adjusting, or the wolf populations controlling themselves, the only way out of this is through a massive thinning of wolf numbers, and elk recovery programs. Or maybe we should just give in and allow our ways of live and hunting to end, and our mountains to become dead zones where only hungry predators roam. If we all set back and do nothing, thats what will happen over the next 10 years.
Another thing people don't seem to realize is alot of the back country habitat really is marginal for deer and elk. There's a reason why you don't see many elk above 5000 feet. It's a short growing season and forage is usually the principal limiting factor.
The truth is, elk numbers were in free fall long before wolves were a twinkle in the tree huggers eyes. That's a symptom of decadent and agingclearcuts, near total fire suppession and lack of any other disturbance to fuel the seral shrub growth that provides quality elk forage.
If the habitat was where it should be, there would have been great numbers of elkinCentral Idahountil the wolves came in a slaughtered them all. Yet, we didn't see good numbers after logging was curtailed in the late 80s and the Clinton Roadless bill sealed the deal.
So don't give us this crap. Using wolves as your convienient scapegoat because you couldn't get your hunters on elk. I see the numbers every day at work and right now what you have a problem with is you're no longer the #1 predator and wolves are now taking their share.
The smart elk are hiding out and walking on egg shells.
You're the one that isn't adapting.
I've gotten two bulls (336 and 314) since 2001 in a unit with the lowest historical elk numbers and highest wolf populations of any zone in region 2.
So spare us your sweeping generalizations.
09-23-2008, 10:25 PM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Huntin' In Colorado
Posts: 2,910
RE: Mountain States Elk Hunting Opportunities, Something Wicked Your Way Comes
ORIGINAL: BrutalAttack
Bleh another one of these slob ignorant hunter topics. Any half-way knowledgable hunter knows that if wolves move into an area, the elk totally change their routine and their patterns. Only an arrogant fool would believe that the elk aren't there just because YOU didn't see them.
Another thing people don't seem to realize is alot of the back country habitat really is marginal for deer and elk. There's a reason why you don't see many elk above 5000 feet. It's a short growing season and forage is usually the principal limiting factor.
The truth is, elk numbers were in free fall long before wolves were a twinkle in the tree huggers eyes. That's a symptom of decadent and agingclearcuts, near total fire suppession and lack of any other disturbance to fuel the seral shrub growth that provides quality elk forage.
If the habitat was where it should be, there would have been great numbers of elkinCentral Idahountil the wolves came in a slaughtered them all. Yet, we didn't see good numbers after logging was curtailed in the late 80s and the Clinton Roadless bill sealed the deal.
So don't give us this crap. Using wolves as your convienient scapegoat because you couldn't get your hunters on elk. I see the numbers every day at work and right now what you have a problem with is you're no longer the #1 predator and wolves are now taking their share.
The smart elk are hiding out and walking on egg shells.
You're the one that isn't adapting.
I've gotten two bulls (336 and 314) since 2001 in a unit with the lowest historical elk numbers and highest wolf populations of any zone in region 2.
So spare us your sweeping generalizations.
ORIGINAL: millagerobert
Just returned from guiding elk hunters for a 7 day hunt here in Central Idaho. Lots of nice bulls taken in the area we hunted last year, and lots of elk sign on trips in this summer and Labor day weekend. I went in 2 days ahead of the hunters on the 12th, and was met with not elk sign but wolves. A large wolf pack had come into the area and either killed or ran off almost every game animal in a 10x10 mile area. We hunted hard, covered almost every square inch of the country, and found only very little sign, and no sign that any elk were living in the area, only running through(no back and forth tracks). The hunters said they still had fun, but we know they were disappointed, and the outfitter is planning to cease all elk hunting trips for this unit in the future. We found lots of cow and calf elk skulls and kills with noses chewed off (indicator of wolves) and also 2 dead wolves with holes in skulls where other wolves had killed their own. In total we saw only 3 whitetail in an area of pristine elk, moose, and deer habitat. What a waste of great wild game habitat. Sportsman and wildlife agencies have worked hard and spent an untold amount of money and time to create the game herds in Idaho over the last century, only to have it all destroyed in a decade through the deceit and lies of the wolf reintroduction program, only 150 wolves proposed, now at least a few thousand, and no management plan being allowed due to 1 enviro judge in Montana, its a shame, and should be a crime. Where will the compensation come for the businesses lost and way of life destroyed by the misguided passions of a few. Lots of prime elk ground has been devistated, and what hasn't been yet will soon, trust me on that, I have moved my hunting from unit to unit to stay ahead of the wolves, but am running out of options now.
We were mad 4 years ago, we are taking matters into our own hands at this point. Don't give us any more BS about the elk adjusting, or the wolf populations controlling themselves, the only way out of this is through a massive thinning of wolf numbers, and elk recovery programs. Or maybe we should just give in and allow our ways of live and hunting to end, and our mountains to become dead zones where only hungry predators roam. If we all set back and do nothing, thats what will happen over the next 10 years.
Just returned from guiding elk hunters for a 7 day hunt here in Central Idaho. Lots of nice bulls taken in the area we hunted last year, and lots of elk sign on trips in this summer and Labor day weekend. I went in 2 days ahead of the hunters on the 12th, and was met with not elk sign but wolves. A large wolf pack had come into the area and either killed or ran off almost every game animal in a 10x10 mile area. We hunted hard, covered almost every square inch of the country, and found only very little sign, and no sign that any elk were living in the area, only running through(no back and forth tracks). The hunters said they still had fun, but we know they were disappointed, and the outfitter is planning to cease all elk hunting trips for this unit in the future. We found lots of cow and calf elk skulls and kills with noses chewed off (indicator of wolves) and also 2 dead wolves with holes in skulls where other wolves had killed their own. In total we saw only 3 whitetail in an area of pristine elk, moose, and deer habitat. What a waste of great wild game habitat. Sportsman and wildlife agencies have worked hard and spent an untold amount of money and time to create the game herds in Idaho over the last century, only to have it all destroyed in a decade through the deceit and lies of the wolf reintroduction program, only 150 wolves proposed, now at least a few thousand, and no management plan being allowed due to 1 enviro judge in Montana, its a shame, and should be a crime. Where will the compensation come for the businesses lost and way of life destroyed by the misguided passions of a few. Lots of prime elk ground has been devistated, and what hasn't been yet will soon, trust me on that, I have moved my hunting from unit to unit to stay ahead of the wolves, but am running out of options now.
We were mad 4 years ago, we are taking matters into our own hands at this point. Don't give us any more BS about the elk adjusting, or the wolf populations controlling themselves, the only way out of this is through a massive thinning of wolf numbers, and elk recovery programs. Or maybe we should just give in and allow our ways of live and hunting to end, and our mountains to become dead zones where only hungry predators roam. If we all set back and do nothing, thats what will happen over the next 10 years.
Another thing people don't seem to realize is alot of the back country habitat really is marginal for deer and elk. There's a reason why you don't see many elk above 5000 feet. It's a short growing season and forage is usually the principal limiting factor.
The truth is, elk numbers were in free fall long before wolves were a twinkle in the tree huggers eyes. That's a symptom of decadent and agingclearcuts, near total fire suppession and lack of any other disturbance to fuel the seral shrub growth that provides quality elk forage.
If the habitat was where it should be, there would have been great numbers of elkinCentral Idahountil the wolves came in a slaughtered them all. Yet, we didn't see good numbers after logging was curtailed in the late 80s and the Clinton Roadless bill sealed the deal.
So don't give us this crap. Using wolves as your convienient scapegoat because you couldn't get your hunters on elk. I see the numbers every day at work and right now what you have a problem with is you're no longer the #1 predator and wolves are now taking their share.
The smart elk are hiding out and walking on egg shells.
You're the one that isn't adapting.
I've gotten two bulls (336 and 314) since 2001 in a unit with the lowest historical elk numbers and highest wolf populations of any zone in region 2.
So spare us your sweeping generalizations.
09-24-2008, 12:42 AM
#8
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 144
RE: Mountain States Elk Hunting Opportunities, Something Wicked Your Way Comes
allhail gods gift to hunting
im sure all of us other lowly hunters couldnt possibly be capable of finding elk. and wolves have increased elk populations too right? not even
yeah we blame the wolves and all you wolf huggers blame us and the habitat. blah blah blah.
and i dont know what part of the state your in but i live at 4800 ft in town. i hunt elk at 7000 ft and higher.cant find many elk below 5000 ft because there isntsuch aplacein the area i hunt .
i used to see 300 elk a week during hunting season 5 years ago. in the last three years i have seen wolves and the devastation of wolves in an area that never had a problem. just the permit numbers for cow tags in that unit have gone from 1000 to 300 over that time.
SSS
im sure all of us other lowly hunters couldnt possibly be capable of finding elk. and wolves have increased elk populations too right? not even
yeah we blame the wolves and all you wolf huggers blame us and the habitat. blah blah blah.
and i dont know what part of the state your in but i live at 4800 ft in town. i hunt elk at 7000 ft and higher.cant find many elk below 5000 ft because there isntsuch aplacein the area i hunt .
i used to see 300 elk a week during hunting season 5 years ago. in the last three years i have seen wolves and the devastation of wolves in an area that never had a problem. just the permit numbers for cow tags in that unit have gone from 1000 to 300 over that time.
SSS
09-24-2008, 06:32 AM
#9
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 599
RE: Mountain States Elk Hunting Opportunities, Something Wicked Your Way Comes
Our great grandfathers and grandfathers had how to handle wolves figured out a long time ago.
Too bad the government had to screw up an effective plan.
Now they are the poster child for the greenies, who are smart and well financed.... a worthy adversary.
Too bad the government had to screw up an effective plan.
Now they are the poster child for the greenies, who are smart and well financed.... a worthy adversary.
09-24-2008, 07:00 AM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: WV
Posts: 4,485
RE: Mountain States Elk Hunting Opportunities, Something Wicked Your Way Comes
greenies, who are smart and well financed.... a worthy adversary.