crenshaw

An effective Management Plan for Wolves needs to be put into place. There numbers should be thinned, Im not saying wipe them off the earth, but they do need to be controlled. There like any other species if there not monitored in the modern world man has created the populations will boom out of control and cause severe damage.

Starhunter21, get your facts straight its NORTHERN CALI is where the hippies reside, a little town called Berkley is the hippie capital. SoCal is the place where they tell you to shoot coyotes and Mountain Lions. As some one who was raised in California I get a litte pissed that we always get the blame for that, Colorado has a ton more hippies then SoCal.

millagerobert

Ignorant hunter??? I am a fifth generation Idahoan with 27 years hunting experience and the knowledge handed down to me by my father and grandfathers. The other guide working with us has 25+ years experience guiding elk hunters in Idaho, and our Outfitter has 50+ years experience in the elk woods with multiple record book bulls hanging in his home, so who is the ignorant one here. Like I have said before quit telling us what is happening in our woods when we know them better than anyone, we see it with our own eyes, and we know elk, so don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.
We know the elk aren't there because we know the area, seeing them has nothing to do with it. We also hunted from the top down, and the elk were ran out from the 2500 ft bottoms to the 5750 ft top, yes we did this on foot everyday, so don't give me any altitude or not in the right place excuse. Any competent person knows where to find elk sign, tracks and droppings etc.., and how to tell the age of both. When you have an area that used to be full of elk, and still has prime elderberry forage and other plants elk eat, and is full of ancient elk paths that are now starting to overgrow due to the elk being gone, any idiot can be sure the elk are gone. When you go into the winter range and see 12 elk instead of 1200, when all you find 10 miles from any road is elk skulls with the noses chewed of, you know who to blame. Winter kills and habitat loss doesn't bite the noses off from dead elk.
As far as adapting, I have moved with the elk, but the elk are running out of places to move, and I don't see how elk adapt to being killed. There still are elk, but not in the numbers they were, and not in all the places they should be, and it is getting worse every year, I know this because I spend 150 days a year in the woods. If you think any elk can get away from a wolf pack in snow then you aren't just believing what comes out of California you are smoking what they produce also.
People like you who have there head in the stand, or think they know what they do not are the problem. Wolves may not have wiped out the elk were you are, but without action trust me they will. No management program for a dominant predator that reproduces at the rate of the wolfs is just insanity. The hijacking of game management from the states by the feds and enviro groups will be the ruin of it all. Tell your story to the sportsman in our area that have lost their opportunities to fill their freezer, that their forefathers worked so hard and paid so much to make possible, or tell it to the outfitters who are going out of business, and the hunters who are no longer coming into areas spending money at local businesses.

I was for hearing all sides to this argument, but that was a few years ago, that time has come and past. So wake up, open your eyes, and see what the real agenda of the pro wolf groups is, or stick your head in the sand and wait there until they shove something up your @$$ also.

millagerobert

Here are some facts for you buried in the sand heads out there.

Wolfs on average eat 10 pounds of meat per day.
http://www.toledozoo.org/plantsanima...lfexhibit.html

lets go with the conservative number of 1500 wolves

1500x10x365=5,475,000 pounds per year

lets say 300 pounds of meat per elk for an average
5,475,000/300=18,250 elk

This number may be less or more. I believe it to be much more because of the number of sport killed elk, and that the true number of wolves is much higher than reported. Also the number of elk that now winter kill due to the increased stress and pressure put on them in the winter months due to being harassed by wolves.

The forwolves.org website actually places the number at 21.6 elk per wolf per year, and state that wolves actually kill more due to loss to scavangers.
So that would put the numbers at 32,400. I believe the true number due to the effects of wolf to be at least twice that.

bugs11

Millagerobert,

Don't think I' pro-wolf, but your hypothisis is based on wolves only eating elk and nothing else. I'm no wolf expert, but one would think they would eat whatever they can catch and kill, which would include other prey, e.g. rabbits, deer, dogs, etc...

Bugs.

millagerobert

I agree, they do eat more than elk, but elk are their primary food source. I also used low numbers to allow for this. We have noticed a large impact on the moose numbers also. For the most part the deer, etc.. seem to have an easier time escaping wolves than elk and moose (from # of kills found, and number of live game present). The wolves also seem to be very hard on the coyotes in an area, which in turn has caused us to notice an increase in the number of rabbits and grouse which coyotes and other small predators prey upon. I believe the wolves may kill some rabbits, grouse, etc... but mostly in an opportunistict setting, rather than seeking these animals out for food like they do the elk and moose. The bears seem to not be effected and seem to have increased in numbers due to less hound hunters due to hound wolf conflicts, and the fact that bears can climb to escape wolves and have plant and berry food sources that don't compete with the wolves. Some of the people I know who hunt lions report a drop in their numbers in wolf areas, maybe due to food source competition and the stealing of kills.

oldelkhunter

Millagerobert... do you think part of the problem is the type of wolf that was used in the introduction? Believe me I am no fan of Wolves and they could all be dead and I wouldn't care. My thoughts are that if an animal(s) migrates naturally into an area so be it and they adapt or they don't. For a bunch of pinheads in washington DCled by the extreme left to introduce packs of bloodthirsty killers in order to effect the livelihoods of people that live off the land as well as numerous outfitters,hunters and just people that want a natural wildlife balance is a total outrage.

Colorado Luckydog

Don't think wolves only kill to eat! They kill for fun as much or more than they do to eat! Elk and deer kills are found daily, that were just killed and not eaten.

Champlain Islander

You have the answer millagerobert. You live there and see it first hand. Unfortunately you and your bunch of outdoorsmen will have to deal with it as best you can. To the rest....don't let them re-introduce wolves to your area. I know I will put up a fight if they choose northern New England like they are talking about.

caselesss5

oldelkhunter you nailed it. only part of the problem is that wolves are going unchecked. the other part is the breed of wolves introduced were not native to our area. they are a larger and more aggressive breed from canada, cant really call it a re-introduction because these wolves arent even the same wolves we had before.

oldelkhunter

I have heard they were transplanted but wanted to ask someone that actually lived there. So these geniuses choose an animal that has lived in close proximity with other large animals in Canada for thousands of years in a natural balance and have th audacity tounleash them into one of the richest Game herds in the entire country. It would break my heart to live there that is all I can say and especially If generations of my family had lived there as well. I think between the reduced logging activity across the west and this brilliant stroke the Elk herds will be significantly reduced. The proper thing to do would have been to introduce them to SF, LA, Washington DC and other areas where these wolf experts are located. They probably don't taste as good as Elk but they are much easier to chase down.