Recoil Management Training..
09-15-2008, 01:02 PM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 1,401
RE: Recoil Management Training..
One method that I've seen used is to have someone else loading the gun behind the shooter's back. He then hands the "loaded" gun to the shooter. Sometimes the gun has a cartridge in it, sometimes it doesn't. It becomes quickly apparent when you have a click on an empty chamber and the shooter flinches that you have an issue. Keep it up until the shooter doesn't flinch on an empty chamber. That means that they aren't flinching on the real thing either. It is a very effective method IME. Sometimes you don't realize that you are flinching until you try this.
09-15-2008, 08:44 PM
#3
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 599
RE: Recoil Management Training..
Most folks rely upon the"school of hard knocks" and/or the "just take it" approach, IMO an almost sure fire spiral into "recoil sensitivity" except for the hardiest of souls....
The "is it loaded or is it empty?" drill mentioned aboveis a great tool, especially for breaking someone of a flinch (which should have never happened in the first place if the candidate made it past first base) or a "check up" as one flirts with the friskier cartridges and is expanding one's"comfort range."
That said, as useful as the technique may be, IMHO it pretty much lies just outside the realm of fundamental recoil management traiining, i.e.
** Informed, hands on, thirdparty guidance,
** Physiology,
** Mechanics and Physics,
** Psychology,
** Execution.
The "is it loaded or is it empty?" drill mentioned aboveis a great tool, especially for breaking someone of a flinch (which should have never happened in the first place if the candidate made it past first base) or a "check up" as one flirts with the friskier cartridges and is expanding one's"comfort range."
That said, as useful as the technique may be, IMHO it pretty much lies just outside the realm of fundamental recoil management traiining, i.e.
** Informed, hands on, thirdparty guidance,
** Physiology,
** Mechanics and Physics,
** Psychology,
** Execution.
09-15-2008, 09:55 PM
#4
Spike
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 6
RE: Recoil Management Training..
I really can't see this managing recoil, all its going to do is identify a flinch. The body is affected by recoil. Anyone that says they can shoot all day long with no affect by recoil is full of crap.
Recoil is punishing, the body does not like it. Just like reloading, you need to work yourself up slowly, if you push it too hard too fast, you induce flinching. Take it slow and shoot more here and there, either increasing the recoil or number of rounds fired.
If you keep telling yourself don't flinch, don't flinch, don't flinch, guess what will happen? You will flinch. Work on basic fundamentals and shooting technique. Shoot the big boomers offhand. Your body will rock with the recoil and it will not be as bad as sitting at the bench.
Recoil is only part of the cause of flinching, muzzleblast and noise can also lead to flinching. Some of the bird cage muzzlebrakes can cause flinching when the pressure wave hits the shooter. It's different and not something that everyone is used to.
Remember, start low and work your way up.
Recoil is punishing, the body does not like it. Just like reloading, you need to work yourself up slowly, if you push it too hard too fast, you induce flinching. Take it slow and shoot more here and there, either increasing the recoil or number of rounds fired.
If you keep telling yourself don't flinch, don't flinch, don't flinch, guess what will happen? You will flinch. Work on basic fundamentals and shooting technique. Shoot the big boomers offhand. Your body will rock with the recoil and it will not be as bad as sitting at the bench.
Recoil is only part of the cause of flinching, muzzleblast and noise can also lead to flinching. Some of the bird cage muzzlebrakes can cause flinching when the pressure wave hits the shooter. It's different and not something that everyone is used to.
Remember, start low and work your way up.
09-16-2008, 05:19 AM
#5
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 599
RE: Recoil Management Training..
The body is affected by recoil. Anyone that says they can shoot all day long with no affect by recoil is full of crap.Recoil is punishing, the body does not like it.
The question is how to best manage the recoil of the friskier cartridges.
The friskier cartridges are not gallery guns and you are NOT going to shoot them "all day long."
The question is "how are you going to shoot them enough and well" in order to get the job done.
It is true, if you are sitting there saying, "don't flinch, don't flinch, don't flinch" you are screwed. All that is, is hoping to move away from something you don't like, rather that moving towards something that is positive.
** Informed, hands on, thirdparty guidance,
** Physiology,
** Mechanics and Physics,
** Psychology,
** Execution.
09-16-2008, 09:48 AM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 1,401
RE: Recoil Management Training..
Maybe I don't understand the question. If you are just looking to build your body up to be able to withstand heavy recoil then work out in the gym and shoota bunch of the cheapest magnum ammo you can find. Have someone punch you in theshoulder a bunch of times in a row.
If you want to shoot a largecaliber rifle as accurately as possible then I think you want to focuselsewhere.
The loaded or not demonstration isn't really an issue of saying "don't flinch, don't flinch, don't flinch". It is saying, focus on the trigger pull and clear your mind. Don't worry about the recoil.
Another trick that I use is shooting .17HMR and .22LR and concentrating on continuing to look at the target through the scope as I pull the trigger and trying to see where the bullet hits. This is really enjoyable with prarrie dogs as you can watchthrough the scope as the bullethits them. With the recoil of a larger gun I don't seem to be able to hold myself or the gun still enough to keep looking through the scope after the gun goes off, but I think it helps train you to keep your eye open and not flinch.
I do think the limbsaver recoil pads and a rifle that fits you well are very helpful in felt recoil as well.
If you want to shoot a largecaliber rifle as accurately as possible then I think you want to focuselsewhere.
The loaded or not demonstration isn't really an issue of saying "don't flinch, don't flinch, don't flinch". It is saying, focus on the trigger pull and clear your mind. Don't worry about the recoil.
Another trick that I use is shooting .17HMR and .22LR and concentrating on continuing to look at the target through the scope as I pull the trigger and trying to see where the bullet hits. This is really enjoyable with prarrie dogs as you can watchthrough the scope as the bullethits them. With the recoil of a larger gun I don't seem to be able to hold myself or the gun still enough to keep looking through the scope after the gun goes off, but I think it helps train you to keep your eye open and not flinch.
I do think the limbsaver recoil pads and a rifle that fits you well are very helpful in felt recoil as well.
09-16-2008, 10:04 AM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,320
RE: Recoil Management Training..
Since I have no clue what recoil management training is I can only guess. After teaching several young boys how to shoot I have my own method for 'training' that, given their results apparently works.
I started them out with rimfires and smaller center fire rifles. Hours of shooting prairie dogs and concentrating on watching the hits thru the scope. Moved up to larger guns using the same technique and finally working them into suitable large deer and elk cartridges.
I started them out with rimfires and smaller center fire rifles. Hours of shooting prairie dogs and concentrating on watching the hits thru the scope. Moved up to larger guns using the same technique and finally working them into suitable large deer and elk cartridges.
09-16-2008, 11:50 AM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southeast Alabama
Posts: 1,625
RE: Recoil Management Training..
ORIGINAL: npaden
One method that I've seen used is to have someone else loading the gun behind the shooter's back. He then hands the "loaded" gun to the shooter. Sometimes the gun has a cartridge in it, sometimes it doesn't. It becomes quickly apparent when you have a click on an empty chamber and the shooter flinches that you have an issue. Keep it up until the shooter doesn't flinch on an empty chamber. That means that they aren't flinching on the real thing either. It is a very effective method IME. Sometimes you don't realize that you are flinching until you try this.
One method that I've seen used is to have someone else loading the gun behind the shooter's back. He then hands the "loaded" gun to the shooter. Sometimes the gun has a cartridge in it, sometimes it doesn't. It becomes quickly apparent when you have a click on an empty chamber and the shooter flinches that you have an issue. Keep it up until the shooter doesn't flinch on an empty chamber. That means that they aren't flinching on the real thing either. It is a very effective method IME. Sometimes you don't realize that you are flinching until you try this.
09-16-2008, 06:47 PM
#9
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 599
RE: Recoil Management Training..
If you want to shoot a largecaliber rifle as accurately as possible then I think you want to focuselsewhere.
The loaded or not demonstration isn't really an issue of saying "don't flinch, don't flinch, don't flinch". It is saying, focus on the trigger pull and clear your mind. Don't worry about the recoil.
If you are just looking to build your body up to be able to withstand heavy recoil then work out in the gym and shoota bunch of the cheapest magnum ammo you can find. Have someone punch you in theshoulder a bunch of times in a row.
Theprimary factor and the one left largely unaddressed isthe psychological aspect, including the "battle within."
09-16-2008, 07:26 PM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 1,401
RE: Recoil Management Training..
Okay, I just thought of one more tip. Use ear protection! Aspreviously mentioned flinching can be caused by things other than actual recoil like the loud bang when you pull the trigger. Using good ear protection at the range can minimize this. Not recoil management at all, but it can make you a more accurate shooter IMO.
As to the battle within I'm not sure how to help with that. I've always been one to state that "if you think you are cold then you ARE cold." The mind is a very powerful tool. Having a game or goal on your shooting can help when shooting paper a lot. Keep your mind focused on something other than the recoil.
Of course the largest caliber I've shot is a .338 win mag, and am happy with 2" groups at 100 yards so I'm not an expert by any means. I'm just sharing specific examples of things that have made me a better shooter.
As to the battle within I'm not sure how to help with that. I've always been one to state that "if you think you are cold then you ARE cold." The mind is a very powerful tool. Having a game or goal on your shooting can help when shooting paper a lot. Keep your mind focused on something other than the recoil.
Of course the largest caliber I've shot is a .338 win mag, and am happy with 2" groups at 100 yards so I'm not an expert by any means. I'm just sharing specific examples of things that have made me a better shooter.