John B 45

I am the shooting host on a new TV hunting show called " The Best of the West"

We have a lot of long range shooting of big game on video and will probably run some of it on our show. When I say long range I mean 500 yds - 800yds (laser range finder). All are one-shot kills with most animals dropping immediately to the shot.

What do you guys think about this? I would like your feedback.

ELKampMaster

John B,

500 to 1100 yards -- wow!

Congrats on your talent. Those are truly impressive stats ESPECIALLY if they tend toward one shot kills since I imagine getting a second shot in while the critter is running would be a little difficult at 800 yards.

If what you say is just as it reads I' d say you are a prodigy with a rifle. When one has innate talent it is hard to personally understand why the rest of mankind don' t have it or can' t easily develop it. It' s the curse of possessing a talent that few will attain.

The part that worries me most about a TV show would be that regardless how much you conditioned it on rifle, practice, cartridge, practice, scope, and degree of practice required, related ethics, practice, etc, etc, etc is that there are too many sniper " wannabes" out there that aren' t prodigies (and never will be) and won' t practice and won' t spend for the equipment and are going to go out there with what they got (which is usually little more than daddy' s deer rifle) and try to emulate what you are capable of when there isn' t a chance in hell they can ever match up. In the mean time, who pays the price? Well first the game and then indirectly -- all of us.

I catch plenty of flak for using " plenty big" magnums since people automatically assume if you use that much power then you must like to shoot long. I love the result of a heavy magnum at ranges you would call " up close and personal" (100 to 250 yards).

How about a show on how to hunt, and how to stalk, and how to ambush game as close as possible instead as far as possible.

Sorry to rain on your parade, I salute your talent if it is as stated, but I can just hear the coyotes are licking their chops!

EKM

fishon01

Well when you say 500-800yds, theres up to a 300yd difference. Im thinkin thats more the zone. you know up to a 300 maybe 400yd shot. I shoot a bow and my shots are under 30 yds. Now with that said, would you like seeing guys shoot at a big 6*6 bull with a bow at say 70-120yds[]. I really dont think so. But im not saying that it cant be done. I noticed that you said you were going to show some of it. Does that mean that some were not kill shots? I personally think that is ego and desperate shots. Shots like these are fuel for the antis, Dont you think we are struggling enough to keep our rights. Lets keep it ethical..........fishon

John B 45

Elkampmaster,

Thanks for the feedback.

The whole show is not about long range shooting. This is just a part of what we are doing.

I personally used an iron-sighted revolver to harvest 2 out of 3 of the antlered tags I filled here in Wyoming. (Antelope and whitetail)

I have given this a lot of thought and come up with some ideas. Should we try and take NASCAR racing off the TV because everyone cannot drive like Richard Petty? And I am in no way comparing my shooting ability to Petty’s driving ability, just using it to illustrate a point.

The guys who are banging away at any elk they can see in the hopes that they may luck out will always be there. Maybe they will learn when not to shoot, maybe they won’t, but pretending it is impossible to reliably kill big game at long range won’t fix that problem.

The next issue is how hard is it to hit (properly) an elk at 500yds? I have a lot of video of relatively inexperienced shooters making great hits at longish ranges with properly set up rifles and good coaching. If the conditions are good it really is no harder to hit an elk in the chest at 500 yds than to hit a 2” circle at 100 yds.

I don’t claim to be an exceptional shot; I just know exactly where to point the rifle to center the group on my intended point of aim at any range I will personally shoot at. This is knowledge, not innate ability or talent. Any one can learn this if they want to. I think too much has been made about the marksmanship part of long range shooting. We do almost all our shooting off bipods and NEVER shoot at moving game. With a little work most people can shoot off a bipod almost as well or in some cases better than they can off a bench. I can shoot sub ½ moa group off a bipod most days. I don’t consider this exceptional performance because I know a lot of inexperienced shooters who can do the same given good conditions.

The further away a hunter can reliably hit his quarry the better a hunter he is.

The closer to his quarry a hunter can get the better a hunter he is.

These two statements don’t contradict one another. We follow both. Long Range Shooting is just another skill in hunting, like stalking, tracking, blood trailing, knowing where to place a treestand, ECT. The more skills any hunter possesses the better a hunter he is.

fishon,

Thanks for the feedback

I don' t care if some one wants to shoot a bow at 120 yds if he can demonstrate on the range he can make such a shot on demand. So far that has not happened to me. I do know archers who can hit at 70 yds, on demand.

Every shot we have on video the hunter who took the shot had demonstrated his (or her) ablity on the range at greater distances, not once but again on demand.As to desperate shots I have a standing bet. I will duplicate any shot we have on video if you want to wager an appropriate amout. Hit or miss, winner takes all.

As to the antis do you really believe they care how far we are shooting? Get real. They want all hunting stopped, period, end of story.

121553

If you can' t get any closer than 800 yrds and you usually drop it ain' t a hunter in my book. I bet your even back at the lodge by 10:00a.am. or is that the time you guys wake up, 800 yard shots, come on lets show the animal we are hunting a little respect, I bet you don' t show the bad shots you make so I am sure its edited, how about showing a hunting clip that shows what skills are required to stalk your quarry at short ranges as opposed to 800 yrds, I think it requires more skill to stalk up on the game as opposed to takeing 800 yard maybe shots. Don' t expect me to be supporting your video, because I DO NOT like you stlye of shooting animals. Bobby[:-][:' (]

ELKampMaster

John B,
Good level headed response. If I ever see the footage, I guess I' ll be looking for the " magic" that lets relatively inexperienced shooters perform like that. Might learn a thing or two.

Regarding your NASCAR analogy -- it don' t hold up at all. To get into NASCAR racing you have to work your way up, PROVE YOURSELF, have LOTS of money, LOTS of first rate equipment AND its all MONITORED AND CONTROLLED by a governing body - NO AMATEURS -- even the low end of the drivers are very talented. If one can' t play at the nascar level and gets a wild hair and decides to drive nascar style on public roads, then the police are there to remove your license if you don' t die first. No such checks and balances exist for a bunch of " sniper wannabes" unleashed on our wildlife having been freshly inspired by such footage.

Everyone needs to make a buck - got to pay the bills! I understand that. I assume you are already committed and that you can probably " stand toe to toe" and argue your logic on this -- good luck -- I' d recommend you buckle your seat belt first because I' m betting the road ahead is going to get a bit rough.

EKM

fishon01

Yeah 70yds is fun to practice, but to me is not worth it in the real deal!

Im glad to read that you are such an expert long shot, and excellent coach to teach these him/hers for such long shot
Thats what we need is another hot shot private land hunting tv host.

I do realize what the antis want, and it is because of people like yourself. I dont think you will get much positive feedback, but hey i can admitt it when im wrong. good luck.........fishon

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Prairie Boy

i see nothing wrong with shooting animals at 800 yards. heck i know guys that shoot elk at 2000+ yards! they obviously don' t use your daddys 30/30 either though. is the person that shoots big game at 800 or even 2000 yards any less a hunter then joe blow that shoots a deer at 50 yards with a 30/30? heck no! he' s an exceptional rifleman that has a much deeper level of understanding about shooting then the avg hunter. some people like to hunt with a bow, a revolver, a shotgun, a muzzleloader or a hunting rifle. other people like to set up portable shooting benches, put 50 lb guns up, use super expensive rangfinders, bigeyes rifles and scope, shoot calibers such as various 300 rum wildcats, lapua mag wildcats or 416 rigby wildcats (338/416 especially) with super heavy bullets (30 cal 240gr smk, and the 338 cal 300gr smk seem to be the favourites) with very high BC' s and hunt this way. there is nothing wrong with this. it' s just a different way of hunting. obviously it isn' t for everyone. it' s very expensive and not everyone has the skills to hit targets reliably that far out. if you or your gun arn' t up to the task of accuratly hitting targets at 500+ yards then leave that kind of hunting to the people who can.


cheers

fishon01

I will apologize for my comments. I did not mean to be a basher or a ass....fishon