Colorado Luckydog

DM, you're alright!

One thing I should add, I was not comfortable with my magnum at first. Even though I had shot guns all my life. I put a muzzle brake on it. After putting the brake on it, I started shooting it pretty good, pretty quick. Without the brake it would have taken me much longer to get use to it. Even though I am a magnum fan, I would bet there are a bunch of new shooters that sale their magnums very quickly. I would recommend shooting a buddies magnum before buying one. Magnums are an aquired taste, just like good whiskey!

MinnFinn

A magnum (e.g. .300 WM,.338 WM, etc.) "can", all other things being the same, provide an advantage on large heavy boned, tough hide animals like Elk over a less powerful caliber. But is it necessary to have a successful hunt? Obviously not.
But it's just one of dozens, if not more, factors in the whole equation and does NOT guarantee success on hunting such animals.
You need the bullet weight, to hit the animal where it needs to, at the distance you need it to, with the force, weightretentionto carry through and do the damage to the internals necessary to bring the animal down quickly without making the majority of the meat into instant blood shot ground meat. Caliber you choose, can only affect some, not all of those factors.
Of course, this is assuming you've done everything else right to even spot, stalk and get the shot on the animal you need to make any of this relevant.
On the other hand, if a bigger caliber, magnum rifle is a distraction and recoil makes it difficult fora hunter to make the shot accurately, consistently, it can also be a detriment for that person. In that case, it's better to use the caliber rifle that going to give you a better chance that you have confidence in, than to buy the newest magnum that you don't have confidence when making the shot that counts. It's more about the hunter and his/her capabilities, preparation and execution than a particular caliber, within reason.

minnesotaminuteman

like the the advantages ofbedding screws coming lose, scope losing its zero all the time, flinching, jerking the triggerand poor shot placement under heavy recoil?

i would love to see how all you .338 + magnum people shoot in a unsupported field position like standing up. you dont get to lay on the ground when your in the field, the brush would be over your head! if your hunting from a stand, then your close and a magnums recoil is a disadvantage and over kill. if you are still hunting your shots are more than likely taken from a standing unsupported rest. shoot your magnum at100 yds standing up lets see if you can even get it on the paper.

when magnum shooters see game in the field they scramble for a rest!!!! because they know that they can hardly shoot those big cannons without one. i m suprised that guns chambered in .300 win mag or bigger dont come with wheels that fold out of the stock, that way you dont have to lug that heavy canon around all day you can just pull it! and you know what, its always the magnum guy that feels the need to have the big old scope thats made for varmint hunting on their rifle. more than likely it looks like if you cant choose the right rifle, you probably cant buy the right scope for the job either!

i see it at the range every week. the big magnum guys cant hit sqwat even from a bench. all the flinching and botched shots just make me laugh. when its time to go check targets i look at my groups which are always great, i just want to laugh in their face when i see their shots scattered all over the target(i would like to call them groups, but there not!). i see it over and over again and again. magnums reduce accuracy, to the point wheretheir not even accurate. sorry guys but i see it every time i go to the range. so unless your some kind of annie oakly or something, stick to standard calibers forstandard shooters.

i bought a magnum when i was 19 or so, and it was a big waste of $$$ and time! i know what magnums are all about so you advacates are not fooling anyone.

minnesotaminuteman

what is it exactly that you magnum people hope to achieve with you bigger caliber? that only advantage i see is more power. to suggest that a -06 doesnt have enough for a north american hunt is just crazy, this caliber has been tried and tested more than most and has already proven that it does the job well. so it has already been eslabished that power is not the case.

what is it then that makes you want a magnum? is it more accurate? nope dont think so
longer range? magnums MPBR isnt much farther than a standard cartridge so i doubt it.
do they shoot flatter? yea a little bit. does it compensate for less than perfect shot placement? no it does not, a miss of the vitals is a miss of the vitals. thats what a follow up shot is for!! under lighter recoil, you can recover in time for a follow up shot if your first was not spot on, much harder to do after just got railed by your magnums recoil(and heaven forbid the scope didnt pop you in the eye)!!!

but i can see nothing that would make you want a magnum for a north american hunt. the advantages that the magnum brings are quickly outwieghed by the massive recoil degrading accuracy as well as other problems that heavy recoil does to guns and scopes!


magnums and standards both have their strengths and weakness, so neitherreally has a clear advantage, or the other would be extinct! but the bottom line is, both will work. to me a .270, -06, 308 or even possibly 7mm mag(asmallermag.)represents good middle ground, for all around cartridges. these are the maximum most hunters can shoot under field conditions, and the recoil is about all most can take.

but it is in my opinion that the lesser recoil of the standard cartridge contributes to more accurate shooting, there for, thats why i favor it. the -06 has stood the test of time. will the wsm/ultra mag stuff do the same or will it slide into obscurity? who knows!

nyflyer

I guess about the only thing I can really add into this post would be that the new breed of super magnums only really came into there own in the early 1980's. Which makes me think what would the guides and hunters in the know before then say in there opinion was or isthe best caliber(s). I'm quite sure that the tens if not hundereds of millions of big game animals killed in the last century and a half, if asked would say that bigger, faster, flatter, louder,harder hitting and better exspanding. Matters not to us,where still dead either way.

EKM

Just about any time one starts out with "you people" you've pretty much already lost the discussion.

Nonetheless, in answer to your question, for me personally, it is the summation across a group of variables that important to me:that satisfyingly loudK-THUD on impact, the greater reaction by the animal on impact, the ability to drill right thru bone or long penetrations of soft tissue andthe abilitytake less than pretty presentations.

Also, we pick up secondary elk tags for our annual elk hunt. When you get into elk, you are into the elk. Mags work great for me as they allow for the convincing slap down on elk #1 to where I can quickly focus in on elk #2 instead of waitingon the "he shouldgo down any second now.... syndrome.

Personally, I put the 270, 7mmRemMag, 30-06, 300WinMag all at the same felt recoil level, all pretty darntame. I do recognize that the degree of riflemanship and knowledge regarding recoil managementdoes vary wildly across hunters, given the low level of training most receive.

It's kind of like riding horses: some want the old grey mare and other want the thoroughbred; it largely depends on the capability of the rider.

ColoradoElk

Hello there Minnesota: Your posts are difficult to read and poorly written.AlthoughI enjoy shooting my 375 Ruger NON MAGNUM, which weighs in at 4 ounces more than a current production M70 in 270 win, I need a cart to carry it?? I have a backup 350 Rem MAGNUM that weighs in at 6 ounces less that the 375 Ruger, which has about 2,000 fewer ft lbs of energy. What evidence can you provide that "magnum" rifles weigh more than their non-magnum counterparts and need wheels to be carried? The MAGNUM cartridges (350 Rem) have significantly less recoil than the non-magnum case (375 Ruger). When you say "i know what magnums are all about so you advacates are not fooling anyone." I think you are talking out of your a$$. Please correct the fiction in your posts.

minnesotaminuteman

by "you people"i mean you guys that use almost twice the rifle that is required. and what i mean by magnums is guns with so much recoil that it makes you want to flinch just looking at them. i own several cannons and i bought them, because people told me they could do all these wonderful things and were so much better than a standard cartridge and thats just not the case. in reality it just made me shoot like crap.
since when has the -06 not been powerful enough? if that will do the job, why do you guys insist on a big cannon? only in your alternate reality do magnums have such an advantage. in the real world all you can tell the difference is the recoil. you can use a -06 or you can use a .600 nitro express. but at the end of the day they both do the job, its just the -06 does it with less recoil.

95% of people at the shooting range i go to, could not hit the vitals of a big game animal at 100 yds, even if they were shooting from a bench rest. i see alot of guys shooting .300 and .338 and they cant hit anything with it. terrible groups everytime!!!!!! i have seen people get poped in the eye with their scopes, stocks splitting and getting fractures, bedding screws losening, scopes always losing their zero, and shooting so bad that it makes me laugh. all of this because of heavy recoil. sorry guys but i just dont think it is worth the extra power.

i was convinced that bigger was better, i found out the hard($$) way.

EKM

Sounds like YOU may be best served by the more moderate cartridges that you can better handle.
Dangerous business however taking what works foryou and then make a blanket statement applying it to all the "you 'magnum' people" out there that do not share your same convictions.

shdwlkr

I don't shoot magnums because they don't work for me and the standard calibers do. If you can use a magnum and hit your target then by all means use and if makes you feel safer all the more reason to use it. I have seen people with all caliber sizes shoot well and stupidly caliber didn't a thing to do with it. I like the larger standard calibers and limit my range to the firearm that I have at the time. I have seen deer hunters back east with the big 338 up magnums while I walked around with my 30-30 and watched them shoot from one hill to the other and still miss and then cuss the rifle for not being powerful enough. I left the area for fear that I could be the next thing that received that poor shot from that magnum shooter. I have also seen people who knew the limits of their rifle no matter the caliber and knew when the shot was right and when to just sit and watch the game animal walk out of sight and then go see if they could get a better shot at it later.