Are bigger cartridges really better?
08-20-2008, 09:33 PM
#61
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 411
RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
ORIGINAL: homers brother
Actually, the discussion's been about calibers and whether larger is better.How about we look at it this way...
Uncle Sam "stimulates" the economy again and you find yourself in possession of $1500. You've always wanted to hunt elk in Wyoming, but you've heard on this forum that there might be bears there. You already own a .30-06, but have heard on this forum that it's too small for bears, you need something bigger. Your tag will cost upwards of a third of your windfall, lodging, meals, and incidentals consume the rest. That shiny new .338 will run you almost the entire amount once you put decent glass on it. What do you do:
1) Who knows when you'll save enough again, you put in for the draw and plan to go hunt elk?
or
2) You buy the big cannon and hope the your uncle is kind to you again someday so that you might actually use it on the elk hunt that you now cannot afford?
I know I'm hunting this year.
Actually, the discussion's been about calibers and whether larger is better.How about we look at it this way...
Uncle Sam "stimulates" the economy again and you find yourself in possession of $1500. You've always wanted to hunt elk in Wyoming, but you've heard on this forum that there might be bears there. You already own a .30-06, but have heard on this forum that it's too small for bears, you need something bigger. Your tag will cost upwards of a third of your windfall, lodging, meals, and incidentals consume the rest. That shiny new .338 will run you almost the entire amount once you put decent glass on it. What do you do:
1) Who knows when you'll save enough again, you put in for the draw and plan to go hunt elk?
or
2) You buy the big cannon and hope the your uncle is kind to you again someday so that you might actually use it on the elk hunt that you now cannot afford?
I know I'm hunting this year.
Ifyou are waiting for Uncle Sam to advanceyou funds that don't exist to go hunting/buy a real gun,priorities might need to be re-evaluated. With that out of the way, there are certain posts on this thread that incorrectly assert an alaskan guide named shoemaker stated an '06 with 200 or 220 grain bullets works as well as anything on the "big bears." Based on the information provided in that post it appears a '06 is just fine for bears.
In many states ittakesyears to draw a tag for the unit you prefer to hunt. I would like to hear from hunters, who have legally tagged an animal larger thana deer, who waited years to get a tagthat choose to hunt with a '06, when they own a larger caliber they shoot well.
I see folks at the range that should not be shooting an airgun, theposition iswrong and the gun does not fit. When they apply their "knowledge" toa firearmthat has snort, the results are predictable. So let's hear it: Who here has tagged a bull, can shoot the same groups with their '06 and a larger caliber, eg .338, andchooses to carry the '06 when they have to wait years for the next opportunity?
Somebody out there with a notched big game tag, please explain if you shoot firearms equally, why "bigger isn't better".
Thank you for your responses.
08-20-2008, 09:48 PM
#62
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,813
RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
ORIGINAL: MakeUr1stShotCount
Peter Capstick spent a lot of time in Africa and his book on guiding spends an entire chapter on this. He acknowledges both sides, but makes some really interesting points: (a) You better be able to handle the big cartridge you're shooting or it'll do you little good, and (b) if you really can pinpoint your shot, the smaller calibers will in fact do the job.
For me, I reckon I'd want something that I know for a fact I can put in the kill spot....and something too that if faced with a charge, will finish the job. Like Capstick said, "It's one thing to hit the kill zone from a resting position at a safe distance; make sure you can repeat that feat at a distance measured in feet if it occurs."
Peter Capstick spent a lot of time in Africa and his book on guiding spends an entire chapter on this. He acknowledges both sides, but makes some really interesting points: (a) You better be able to handle the big cartridge you're shooting or it'll do you little good, and (b) if you really can pinpoint your shot, the smaller calibers will in fact do the job.
For me, I reckon I'd want something that I know for a fact I can put in the kill spot....and something too that if faced with a charge, will finish the job. Like Capstick said, "It's one thing to hit the kill zone from a resting position at a safe distance; make sure you can repeat that feat at a distance measured in feet if it occurs."
As for would i buy a 338 to go elk hunting... Heck NO, in fact i have a 338-06 that i've flattened a brown bear or two with, and i wouldn't even take that. I also have a 340 wby. (on a Rem. 700 action) and i wouldn't take that either!
I don't HAVE to get something every time i go hunting, and i won't shoot at a big game animial from this county, into the next county. So, if the 30-06 isn't good enough to make the shot i'm offered, i have no problem watching the elk walk away, and i'll honestly enjoy just being able to see it out there...
DM
08-21-2008, 03:15 AM
#63
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Huntin' In Colorado
Posts: 2,910
RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
ORIGINAL: DM
Really? I don't see that as a contradiction at all... YES, there's a mag. advantage, but it isn't needed.
Really? I don't see that as a contradiction at all... YES, there's a mag. advantage, but it isn't needed.
I want every advantage I can get!
Enough said.
08-21-2008, 07:09 AM
#64
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: WY
Posts: 2,056
RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
ColoradoElk,
If you shoot it well and own it already, by all means take it on your hunt.
What's gained here though by the continual advice that "it's not enough"? Again, if you already own a .30-06 for your deer woods, why is there such consistent pressure to go out and buy a WSM/SAUM/RM/WM if you decide you're going elk hunting? You probably already shoot the .30-06 well enough? Wouldn't you be wiser taking that extra cash you'd otherwise spend on a rifle and try to do a bit of recon prior to hunting the area you waited so long to draw?
As well, starting out - what real sense is there in overgunning yourself. I watched a father try to buy his son (maybe 12 years old) his "first deer rifle" at the gun counter last weekend. In spite of the sales person's advice to look at something that fit the sonbetter than a long action (he was pushing a .308), dad insisted ona lightweight rifle and synthetic stockand either a7mm or .300 Mag, because "someday we're probably going to hunt elk". I see a marksmanship (flinching) problem in the making.
Are bigger cartridges really better? That depends. If you shoot a .243 for deer at home and are going to hunt elk, yes - a bigger cartridge wouldbe better, although it's been done. If you shoot something in the .270-30-06 class already, you're not undergunned for elk as you might think reading someof thethreads hereas long as you choose the proper bullet. Yes, a bigger cartridge might give you some peace of mind, but if you have to buy another rifle to achieve it, that must also be weighed as a cost-benefit. If you already own a larger cartridge/caliber, it's all moot. Whatever you choose to shoot, you MUST be able to shoot it well.
If you shoot it well and own it already, by all means take it on your hunt.
What's gained here though by the continual advice that "it's not enough"? Again, if you already own a .30-06 for your deer woods, why is there such consistent pressure to go out and buy a WSM/SAUM/RM/WM if you decide you're going elk hunting? You probably already shoot the .30-06 well enough? Wouldn't you be wiser taking that extra cash you'd otherwise spend on a rifle and try to do a bit of recon prior to hunting the area you waited so long to draw?
As well, starting out - what real sense is there in overgunning yourself. I watched a father try to buy his son (maybe 12 years old) his "first deer rifle" at the gun counter last weekend. In spite of the sales person's advice to look at something that fit the sonbetter than a long action (he was pushing a .308), dad insisted ona lightweight rifle and synthetic stockand either a7mm or .300 Mag, because "someday we're probably going to hunt elk". I see a marksmanship (flinching) problem in the making.
Are bigger cartridges really better? That depends. If you shoot a .243 for deer at home and are going to hunt elk, yes - a bigger cartridge wouldbe better, although it's been done. If you shoot something in the .270-30-06 class already, you're not undergunned for elk as you might think reading someof thethreads hereas long as you choose the proper bullet. Yes, a bigger cartridge might give you some peace of mind, but if you have to buy another rifle to achieve it, that must also be weighed as a cost-benefit. If you already own a larger cartridge/caliber, it's all moot. Whatever you choose to shoot, you MUST be able to shoot it well.
08-21-2008, 07:13 AM
#65
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,813
RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
ORIGINAL: Colorado Luckydog
The title of the thread...RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
I want every advantage I can get!
Enough said.
ORIGINAL: DM
Really? I don't see that as a contradiction at all... YES, there's a mag. advantage, but it isn't needed.
Really? I don't see that as a contradiction at all... YES, there's a mag. advantage, but it isn't needed.
I want every advantage I can get!
Enough said.
Everyone has a point where "enough is a enough", your's is just higher than some of the other posters here...
DM
08-21-2008, 01:03 PM
#67
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Oceanside, Ca.
Posts: 44
RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
I lived and hunted in Alaska. The 06, 300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag, and the 375 H and H were the most popular and used.
300 Win Mag is more than adequate for the big bears.
I've seen the large bears taken with the 06, 7 Rem Mag, and the 270.
Shot placement is a big part of it as well.
On any game animal.
T
300 Win Mag is more than adequate for the big bears.
I've seen the large bears taken with the 06, 7 Rem Mag, and the 270.
Shot placement is a big part of it as well.
On any game animal.
T
08-22-2008, 07:10 PM
#68
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Huntin' In Colorado
Posts: 2,910
RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
ORIGINAL: DM
Soo, do you carry a 600 Nitro express, or a 700 Nitro express?? Certainly you AT LEAST have a 460 Wby? AND, "if" you want every advantage you can get... You "always" hire the BEST guides for all of your hunting too, right?
Everyone has a point where "enough is a enough", your's is just higher than some of the other posters here...
DM
ORIGINAL: Colorado Luckydog
The title of the thread...RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
I want every advantage I can get!
Enough said.
ORIGINAL: DM
Really? I don't see that as a contradiction at all... YES, there's a mag. advantage, but it isn't needed.
Really? I don't see that as a contradiction at all... YES, there's a mag. advantage, but it isn't needed.
I want every advantage I can get!
Enough said.
Everyone has a point where "enough is a enough", your's is just higher than some of the other posters here...
DM
I think you may be just a little upset with yourself for letting it slip out that magnums have an advantage.
08-22-2008, 07:26 PM
#69
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Huntin' In Colorado
Posts: 2,910
RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
Every big game animal I've ever shot, was shot with a 30/30 or a 30.06, until a few short years ago. I agree that magnums are notnecessary, but to say they do not offer an advantage is ridiculous.
08-22-2008, 08:17 PM
#70
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,813
RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
ORIGINAL: Colorado Luckydog
The thread was not about me getting a guide or not. The thread is about opinions on magnums being better, and they are. IMO
I think you may be just a little upset with yourself for letting it slip out that magnums have an advantage.
ORIGINAL: DM
Soo, do you carry a 600 Nitro express, or a 700 Nitro express?? Certainly you AT LEAST have a 460 Wby? AND, "if" you want every advantage you can get... You "always" hire the BEST guides for all of your hunting too, right?
Everyone has a point where "enough is a enough", your's is just higher than some of the other posters here...
DM
ORIGINAL: Colorado Luckydog
The title of the thread...RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
I want every advantage I can get!
Enough said.
ORIGINAL: DM
Really? I don't see that as a contradiction at all... YES, there's a mag. advantage, but it isn't needed.
Really? I don't see that as a contradiction at all... YES, there's a mag. advantage, but it isn't needed.
I want every advantage I can get!
Enough said.
Everyone has a point where "enough is a enough", your's is just higher than some of the other posters here...
DM
I think you may be just a little upset with yourself for letting it slip out that magnums have an advantage.
As for mag's having an advantage, they DO have a BIG advantage in some circumstaces, but in MOST cases it just isn't needed.
I have no problem stateing that, i don't hate mags., and over the years i've used them. But it didn't take me long to figure out that for reasonable ranges, they just aren't necessary.
DM
