RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

When I was a kid, I wanted to be the first on my block to have a .338 magnum, just because the biggest, coolest gun any of my friends owned up to that point was a 7mm magnum. There really wasn't any need for it otherwise, except for "show-off" value.

Early 20s I moved to AK. DM - your post is spot on. Just had to get a .375 H&H and .44 Mag pistol for those forays up to the Deshka or the Susitnas, or backpacking the Kenai. "For bears", I told myself.But I rarely ran into bears, and even those i did encounter seemed relatively uninterested in me - and I doubt it was because they had the clarity to recognize a M700 Safari Grade when they saw one.

Somewhere along the line I also decided I didn't need to impress the girls anymore, either. Found myself driving a 6-cylinder, full-size pickup with vinyl seats and no A/C or power windows. Yet, it would haul me and my stuff all over the place and I could focus on hunting and fishing, instead of what other people thought.

My Safari Grade's a fine example and owns a permanent spot in the safe. I have a synthetic-stocked Weatherby Vanguard that I beat the crap out of hunting elk sometimes (it's like a Timex) - which just HAPPENS to be chambered for .300 Wby Mag, though I'd much prefer it have been a .30-06. Wal-Mart had sold out of those (?)and all they had left was this one. Oh well.

I hunt coyotes, prairie dogs, turkey, pheasants, pronghorn, deer, and elk these days. There are only so many slots in my safe that I'd call "convenientily up front" and they're occupied by: a 12 ga O/U, a .22-250 Varmint rifle, my .30-06, and my .243. Behind them are .22s, some .223s, more 12 gauges. my wife's and daughter's shotguns and rifles, and my military/LE stuff. On the back wall are ..... the twomagnums. It takes a couple minutes to uncover them because I RARELY use them anymore. Why?

Now that I'm notworried about how big everyone else's Johnson is - likeI was back in high school -I find that it's how well you shoot and not what you shoot that matters the most. Make my go-to deer/elk rifle a .30-06.

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

Homer-Back-Home,

Being a formerAK stud and all; how did your great bearexperience go?
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BTW, 30-06 good choice for deer and elk.
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Johnsons? Johnsons? Where did that enter into the discussion from?
Degraded?
================================================== =

Original Topic: Are bigger cartridges really better?
Probably, or we would all be hunting big game with 22LR's.

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

EKM,

I'll deferyour "stud" comment regarding Alaska to those who actuallylive up there permanently.

As to "degraded", I think I'll let you think about that one.

I'm not sure I understand what you're attempting toachieve byintroducing the ".22LR" argument? I'm sure you can think of manyspecies where a smaller caliber is in fact, better. And, I'm sure I can think of many species where a larger caliber is in fact, better.

But I think I'll borrow a line from your signature: "Learn from the mistakes of others". How about one regarding THIS topic (I certainly have more and am more than happy to share if it might save someone else the trouble):

If you want to buy a magnum, make certain it's for the right reason. I can't honestly say that I NEEDED that .375 for bears. I'd easily have gotten by with my .30-06 for as many chargingbears as I needed to stop (like, none). The money and timeI spent reading up on big bears and talking to experienced locals was WAY better spent. But hey, thatIS one long beast of a cartridge, isn't it? And that's probably the biggest reason I just HAD to have it.

Now, if your experience has been different, by all means post it. After all, it's just an opinion and the reader is left to decide which argument(s) is/are the most credible. And in the end, their choice is of no consequence to either of us - we'll continue whatever it was we were doing before.

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

I would recommend calling the guides and following their recommendations..... They arethe ones that have "been there and done that" on an ongoing, "hands on" basis, with a sample size greater than one (or zero).

Of course if you don't like what you hear, then you can always keep calling until you find one that give the "right" answer.... kind of like these forums.

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

Why bother calling to find the answer you are looking for when you can just make it up?

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

When hunting griz, just take a .50 cal handgun and a huntin' partner you can out run!

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

My grandpa farmed a homestead in Alaska near Palmer in the 1940'sand killed every big game animalhe ever killed therewith a .270. I now have hunted with a .270 for most of my life and killed all of my big game with it and never had a problem. I never hunted grizzly so I cannot recount any grizzly prize, but I would use it on one anyways. I have killed Moose and Elk with it my whole life and will continue to do so just as my grandpa did. How many on this forumget the chance to hunt grizzly anyways? If a grizzly charges any of you, most likely your weapon is going to become either a bat while you fight for your life or duff when you drop it to run anyways. Good luck with the whole charging grizzly thing though. I like shooting all calibers but for ABSOLUTELY NEEDING a .30 or bigger for big game I think it's hogwash. If you have a bad shot, don't take it in the first place. If you make a bad shot, well get ready for some work no matter what caliber you are shooting.

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

Hello there Super. It sounds like your family has had some great hunging experiences! Your post is interesting to me in that it appears your have a choice of calibers larger than .270, but select the .270 for your hunting needs. When asked, mosts folks say "Caliber (< 30-06) .XXX is all you need and a larger or forbid, MAGNUM is "overkill". Usually,this is because caliber .XXX is the onlygun they own, so it "must" be adequate. Have you hunted with .30-06 class or larger cartridges for elk, and still choose to carry the .270? I don't own a .270 (or a .30-06 for that matter), but I have a 7x64 that is comparable, that to me is a deer gun. I sure feel better carrying .338+ for elk. What are your experiences with > .270 class cartidges on elk? Thank youfor your time.

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

Geee, i spent 25 seasons in the Alaskan bush, do i get to be a "stud" too??? lol lol

Anyway, i've found that most of the guides don't really know all that much about "bullets"... They know that bigger goes "slower" so it works, so they recomend them. When you start talking about bullet "construction", they kind ofget a blank stare on there face... I had more than one come into my shop and ask me what load/bullet "i" thought would work for them.

Another thing, they don't know what kind of shooter they are going to end up with. Here's an example: I got one guy within 50 yards of a really nice very dark color phase brown bear that from the knee down on all 4 legs was almost white. The bear looked like it had boots on... lol Anyway, we were in HEAVY brush over our heads, and when we got in the open isaid, "take him"! BOOM, and it was over!

I took another guy out, and i got him about 70 yards away from a really nice brown that was uphill and sitting on it's @$$ like a dog does. I told the guy, "shoot it high in the chest, EXACTLY between the front legs"... He stood there stiff as a board, so i repeated, and he just shook his head NO!

So, if you don't know what your getting, you just recomend something bigger! But, i've seen brown bear guides with everything from a 25-06 with 120 NP's, to many with 30-06's, 7 mags, 338 mags on up to 458's. Some had weak bullets loaded in there rifles thati would never use. Like 220's in a 300 mag... Now, that's a POS... I wouldn't even use them in a 30-06! Or 400 Speers in a .458!

Lastly, if you think posters should talk from experience, i have to ask. How many brown bears have YOU harvested? More than me?

DM

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

Yep, 25 years in the Alaskan bush and actually taking the bears does get you "AK stud" status IMO, so you are "in."
Having been inAlaska for a season with a classic rifle and never used it for what it isintended for and then assessing how effective it was, well, not so much.

Though we aren't from the same school I've always had to guard my replies to you insofar, hey this guy has been there and done that. Called you on one when you seemingly contradicted yourself first talking one way and then talking the other within the same post.

There a few guys on this forum that I also respect like bigcountry who seem down on your case, and I am not sure why. You always have good stuff and have been there and done it. No crime in delivering a message bluntly if it is the facts.

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

Well, point that one out to me if you can, i'd like to reread it and see what i posted... I really try to keep to subjects and facts that i experienced, so perhaps i need to make a correction there...

In the past ispent a huge amount of time testing bullets, as i was mfg them for resale. I found if you use proper bullets in the first place, you just don't need a cannon for hunting big game. If someone wants to use one, that's fine with me but it isn't always necessary. BUT,i'm NOT adovacating the use of small caliber or pip squeek cartridges on big game here, even though there are some very good small caliber bullets available today....

DM

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

** (talking about a standard cartridge)
"A 'properly loaded" 30-06 (200 NP's) will break both shoulders of any bear alive, and a high shoulder shot will damage the spinal cord, anchoring the bear... "

** (talking about a magnum cartridge)
"A 7 Rem. mag. loaded with 175 NP's is even bigger medicine, so don't tell me you need 30 cal. on up for big bears... "

** (denying mag advantage given what was just said)
"I can't see where a "magnum" out shines any decent std. cartridge that's "properly loaded", at any decent range... "
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A contradiction in my read....

I'll still give ya the "AK Stud" points though.

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

Really? I don't see that as a contradiction at all... YES, there's a mag. advantage, but it isn't needed. A 460 Wby. has an even bigger advantage, but it isn't needed either...

I did use a poor choise of words in your last quote though...

I should have worded it... I can't see where a "magnum" out shines any decent std. cartridge "on big game" that's "properly loaded", when used at any decent range...

What i'm saying is, thata properly loaded30-06 can and does do the job... The 7 mag. is a smaller bullet, but properly loaded it will do it too... (that falls in with those that think even a .30 is too small) Also, the 7 mag. shoots flatter, and that's an advantage if you choose to shoot at long range... (I don't condone shooting long range at bears)

I shot a brown bear with a 264 Win. Mag., didn't impress me much, but it said MAGNUM on the cartridge... I heavily tested the .338-06 against the 350 Rem. Mag., and the .338 bullets out performed the 35's,so i chose to build the .338-06 and it didn't say MAGNUM on that cartridge either.

My point being: a properly loaded 30-06 will get you there, and thereARE many cartridges that do have more power... (read bigger medicine) BUT, they aren't necessarily needed.

I learned long ago, it's the BULLET you choose to use that makes more of adifference, than the cartridge behind it!

I hope i explainedmyself better in this post...

DM

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

That's a pretty bold statement there, EKM. I'm to assume that "actually taking a bear" is what qualifies one to apply to your "AK Stud" club? And the reason anyone would WANT to be in your club in the first place is: what, you've shot more bears than anyone else? You've lived in Alaska all your life? :eek:

You might be surprised (especially from your armchair in Denver) to know that many Alaskans don't actually HUNT bears. They're more concerned about running into them accidentally while hunting something else (most often, moose), or while engaged in another activity (most often, fishing).

Yet, these are the same people who remain long after the termination dust hits the Chugach, unlike the hunters who come there with bags of money and a desire to join "your club" by shooting a bear, and then go back to the lower 48.I wonder if they appreciate someone in Denver deciding who among them are "studs"? I'll bet they could care less?

I know I could care less what you think. My experience in Alaska is satisfaction enough. I tooktwo moose, three caribou, and a Dall sheep while I was there. Didn't hunt bear, didn't want to hunt bear, nor did I ever have any interest running into one accidentally. I spent two weeks in a tent in January at 72 degrees below zero or less, I've actually seen the bottom of the windchill chart. But, I was there just four years. It takes a hardy person to be an "Alaskan" year-after-year, and they don't need to actually shoot a bear toearn my respect. All I can hopeis to be a gracious enough guestthat they'll keep letting me return.

You generally give pretty reasonable advice though. I'm not sure what's gotten you into such a twist with this thread?

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

Personally, my aesthetic preference is for using a smaller cartridge -- but adequate -- for a given game species rather than a bigger cartridge. For example, when hunting deer and pronghorn antelope I would prefer to use my .25-06 or my .243 rather than my .30-06. The .30-06 will get the job done and will not tear up meat inordinately . . . but it is bigger than is necessary. The .25-06 and .243 are plenty of gun if I do my job, putting a bullet where it needs to go.

On the otherhand, I am attracted to the idea of getting a .338 Win Mag for elk hunting to use instead of my .30-06. Most people will admit the .30-06 is enough gun for elk. . . but I also sense from discussionsthat under some circumstances the .338 win mag might be preferred (1) longer range, quartering away shot; (2) less than ideal shooting conditions maybe late in the season or one-time opportunity on a trophy individual (generally I am not a trophy hunter but a meat hunter wanting a good hunting experience, but I suppose if a trophy happened to throw himself in front of me I would be as motivated as the next guy to harvest this animal -- trophies provide meat too); (3) hunting in grizzly bear country. Maybe if I had more first hand elk hunting experience I would be more confident and settled in my use of the .30-06. Maybe I'm sub-consciously fishing for an excuse to buy a new rifle in .338 win mag?

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

Sorry I am late to the dance.....scattershooting in seeming randomness:

Fret no longer! You can enhance your johnson! I have the remedy. Saw it in the back of Field and Stream!
I saw where this was referenced in an earlier post and thought anyone that is only buying a bigger cartridge out of "johnson" envy could just order some of this stuff and save money!!!

Question is.....if you wife says she wants a bigger cartridge? Is she talking metaphors? Does she mean to replace you? Is she just wanting something with more punch for killing game?

Lastly, here's a question for ya:
You are driving down the highway in your pickup. No, it's not a truck! That would make you a truck driver and you would need 14 more wheels, but I digress. A guy passes you in his ferrari. Do you condemn/ridicule him for having more vehicle than he needs to drive down the road at the posted limits of speed? Or do you allow that he is just traveling down the same road as you....though choosing to get there in a different configuration. Does it make you feel better to suggest that he is somehow more arrogant, less of a driver, has a smaller appendage so must be compensating, etc.?
Some of us just are just looking for discussions that provoke constructive thought. (But don't get mad at me if I happen to ogle your trophy in the passenger seat of your sports car!)

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

LMAO!! :D:D:D

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

Yes Red, you're late to the dance. Your date already left with someone else....

Actually, the discussion's been about calibers and whether larger is better.How about we look at it this way...

Uncle Sam "stimulates" the economy again and you find yourself in possession of $1500. You've always wanted to hunt elk in Wyoming, but you've heard on this forum that there might be bears there. You already own a .30-06, but have heard on this forum that it's too small for bears, you need something bigger. Your tag will cost upwards of a third of your windfall, lodging, meals, and incidentals consume the rest. That shiny new .338 will run you almost the entire amount once you put decent glass on it. What do you do:

1) Who knows when you'll save enough again, you put in for the draw and plan to go hunt elk?

or

2) You buy the big cannon and hope the your uncle is kind to you again someday so that you might actually use it on the elk hunt that you now cannot afford?

I know I'm hunting this year.

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

The thread title is "Are bigger cartridges really better."

As DM pointed out the measuring stick seems to go to huntingthe big bears of Alaska,

Since that is where the discussion went, so wentmy remarks....

And within that discussion,I give more points tothose that haveactually done it. Period.
** An AK Stud in a brownie or polar bear discussion is one that has done it.
** An AK Stud in a residence-winter-endurancediscussion is one that has done it.
** An AK Stud in a halibut fishing discussion is one that has done it.

One that has lived in AK and has encountered the great bearsgets more points than someone (like me) that hasn't, right up to the claim of what works forbest for taking the great bears versus what don't, at that point things plateau real quick. If one hasn't bore down on one and put him away, then you just haven't, no matter where you are from.

Like I said, "....not so much."

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

Peter Capstick spent a lot of time in Africa and his book on guiding spends an entire chapter on this. He acknowledges both sides, but makes some really interesting points: (a) You better be able to handle the big cartridge you're shooting or it'll do you little good, and (b) if you really can pinpoint your shot, the smaller calibers will in fact do the job.

For me, I reckon I'd want something that I know for a fact I can put in the kill spot....and something too that if faced with a charge, will finish the job. Like Capstick said, "It's one thing to hit the kill zone from a resting position at a safe distance; make sure you can repeat that feat at a distance measured in feet if it occurs."

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

Hello HB, to add levity to the thread, I hope you aren't holding your breath waiting for additional stimulation by Uncle Sam, it sounds dirty particularly given the seemingly high percentage of pre-pubescent "hunters" here.

Ifyou are waiting for Uncle Sam to advanceyou funds that don't exist to go hunting/buy a real gun,priorities might need to be re-evaluated. With that out of the way, there are certain posts on this thread that incorrectly assert an alaskan guide named shoemaker stated an '06 with 200 or 220 grain bullets works as well as anything on the "big bears." Based on the information provided in that post it appears a '06 is just fine for bears.

In many states ittakesyears to draw a tag for the unit you prefer to hunt. I would like to hear from hunters, who have legally tagged an animal larger thana deer, who waited years to get a tagthat choose to hunt with a '06, when they own a larger caliber they shoot well.

I see folks at the range that should not be shooting an airgun, theposition iswrong and the gun does not fit. When they apply their "knowledge" toa firearmthat has snort, the results are predictable. So let's hear it: Who here has tagged a bull, can shoot the same groups with their '06 and a larger caliber, eg .338, andchooses to carry the '06 when they have to wait years for the next opportunity?

Somebody out there with a notched big game tag, please explain if you shoot firearms equally, why "bigger isn't better".

Thank you for your responses.

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

Everything you've posted above might be spot on, BUT Capstick had/has a reputation of being a big bullchitter, and a huge exaggerator, so be very carefull about quoteing anything he's said...

As for would i buy a 338 to go elk hunting... Heck NO, in fact i have a 338-06 that i've flattened a brown bear or two with, and i wouldn't even take that. I also have a 340 wby. (on a Rem. 700 action) and i wouldn't take that either!

I don't HAVE to get something every time i go hunting, and i won't shoot at a big game animial from this county, into the next county. So, if the 30-06 isn't good enough to make the shot i'm offered, i have no problem watching the elk walk away, and i'll honestly enjoy just being able to see it out there...

DM

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

The title of the thread...RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
I want every advantage I can get!
Enough said.

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

ColoradoElk,

If you shoot it well and own it already, by all means take it on your hunt.

What's gained here though by the continual advice that "it's not enough"? Again, if you already own a .30-06 for your deer woods, why is there such consistent pressure to go out and buy a WSM/SAUM/RM/WM if you decide you're going elk hunting? You probably already shoot the .30-06 well enough? Wouldn't you be wiser taking that extra cash you'd otherwise spend on a rifle and try to do a bit of recon prior to hunting the area you waited so long to draw?

As well, starting out - what real sense is there in overgunning yourself. I watched a father try to buy his son (maybe 12 years old) his "first deer rifle" at the gun counter last weekend. In spite of the sales person's advice to look at something that fit the sonbetter than a long action (he was pushing a .308), dad insisted ona lightweight rifle and synthetic stockand either a7mm or .300 Mag, because "someday we're probably going to hunt elk". I see a marksmanship (flinching) problem in the making.

Are bigger cartridges really better? That depends. If you shoot a .243 for deer at home and are going to hunt elk, yes - a bigger cartridge wouldbe better, although it's been done. If you shoot something in the .270-30-06 class already, you're not undergunned for elk as you might think reading someof thethreads hereas long as you choose the proper bullet. Yes, a bigger cartridge might give you some peace of mind, but if you have to buy another rifle to achieve it, that must also be weighed as a cost-benefit. If you already own a larger cartridge/caliber, it's all moot. Whatever you choose to shoot, you MUST be able to shoot it well.

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

Soo, do you carry a 600 Nitro express, or a 700 Nitro express?? Certainly you AT LEAST have a 460 Wby? AND, "if" you want every advantage you can get... You "always" hire the BEST guides for all of your hunting too, right?

Everyone has a point where "enough is a enough", your's is just higher than some of the other posters here...

DM

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

For big very mean bear 300 win mag at 210 grains or 338 federal at 220 grains.

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

I lived and hunted in Alaska. The 06, 300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag, and the 375 H and H were the most popular and used.
300 Win Mag is more than adequate for the big bears.
I've seen the large bears taken with the 06, 7 Rem Mag, and the 270.
Shot placement is a big part of it as well.
On any game animal.

T

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

The thread was not about me getting a guide or not. The thread is about opinions on magnums being better, and they are. IMO

I think you may be just a little upset with yourself for letting it slip out that magnums have an advantage.

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

Every big game animal I've ever shot, was shot with a 30/30 or a 30.06, until a few short years ago. I agree that magnums are notnecessary, but to say they do not offer an advantage is ridiculous.

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

Hey, you are the one that said you wanted EVERY advantage... Now, live by your statement... lol

As for mag's having an advantage, they DO have a BIG advantage in some circumstaces, but in MOST cases it just isn't needed.

I have no problem stateing that, i don't hate mags., and over the years i've used them. But it didn't take me long to figure out that for reasonable ranges, they just aren't necessary.

DM

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

DM, you're alright!

One thing I should add, I was not comfortable with my magnum at first. Even though I had shot guns all my life. I put a muzzle brake on it. After putting the brake on it, I started shooting it pretty good, pretty quick. Without the brake it would have taken me much longer to get use to it. Even though I am a magnum fan, I would bet there are a bunch of new shooters that sale their magnums very quickly. I would recommend shooting a buddies magnum before buying one. Magnums are an aquired taste, just like good whiskey!

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

A magnum (e.g. .300 WM,.338 WM, etc.) "can", all other things being the same, provide an advantage on large heavy boned, tough hide animals like Elk over a less powerful caliber. But is it necessary to have a successful hunt? Obviously not.
But it's just one of dozens, if not more, factors in the whole equation and does NOT guarantee success on hunting such animals.
You need the bullet weight, to hit the animal where it needs to, at the distance you need it to, with the force, weightretentionto carry through and do the damage to the internals necessary to bring the animal down quickly without making the majority of the meat into instant blood shot ground meat. Caliber you choose, can only affect some, not all of those factors.
Of course, this is assuming you've done everything else right to even spot, stalk and get the shot on the animal you need to make any of this relevant.
On the other hand, if a bigger caliber, magnum rifle is a distraction and recoil makes it difficult fora hunter to make the shot accurately, consistently, it can also be a detriment for that person. In that case, it's better to use the caliber rifle that going to give you a better chance that you have confidence in, than to buy the newest magnum that you don't have confidence when making the shot that counts. It's more about the hunter and his/her capabilities, preparation and execution than a particular caliber, within reason.

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

like the the advantages ofbedding screws coming lose, scope losing its zero all the time, flinching, jerking the triggerand poor shot placement under heavy recoil?

i would love to see how all you .338 + magnum people shoot in a unsupported field position like standing up. you dont get to lay on the ground when your in the field, the brush would be over your head! if your hunting from a stand, then your close and a magnums recoil is a disadvantage and over kill. if you are still hunting your shots are more than likely taken from a standing unsupported rest. shoot your magnum at100 yds standing up lets see if you can even get it on the paper.

when magnum shooters see game in the field they scramble for a rest!!!! because they know that they can hardly shoot those big cannons without one. i m suprised that guns chambered in .300 win mag or bigger dont come with wheels that fold out of the stock, that way you dont have to lug that heavy canon around all day you can just pull it! and you know what, its always the magnum guy that feels the need to have the big old scope thats made for varmint hunting on their rifle. more than likely it looks like if you cant choose the right rifle, you probably cant buy the right scope for the job either!

i see it at the range every week. the big magnum guys cant hit sqwat even from a bench. all the flinching and botched shots just make me laugh. when its time to go check targets i look at my groups which are always great, i just want to laugh in their face when i see their shots scattered all over the target(i would like to call them groups, but there not!). i see it over and over again and again. magnums reduce accuracy, to the point wheretheir not even accurate. sorry guys but i see it every time i go to the range. so unless your some kind of annie oakly or something, stick to standard calibers forstandard shooters.

i bought a magnum when i was 19 or so, and it was a big waste of $$$ and time! i know what magnums are all about so you advacates are not fooling anyone.

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

what is it exactly that you magnum people hope to achieve with you bigger caliber? that only advantage i see is more power. to suggest that a -06 doesnt have enough for a north american hunt is just crazy, this caliber has been tried and tested more than most and has already proven that it does the job well. so it has already been eslabished that power is not the case.

what is it then that makes you want a magnum? is it more accurate? nope dont think so
longer range? magnums MPBR isnt much farther than a standard cartridge so i doubt it.
do they shoot flatter? yea a little bit. does it compensate for less than perfect shot placement? no it does not, a miss of the vitals is a miss of the vitals. thats what a follow up shot is for!! under lighter recoil, you can recover in time for a follow up shot if your first was not spot on, much harder to do after just got railed by your magnums recoil(and heaven forbid the scope didnt pop you in the eye)!!!

but i can see nothing that would make you want a magnum for a north american hunt. the advantages that the magnum brings are quickly outwieghed by the massive recoil degrading accuracy as well as other problems that heavy recoil does to guns and scopes!


magnums and standards both have their strengths and weakness, so neitherreally has a clear advantage, or the other would be extinct! but the bottom line is, both will work. to me a .270, -06, 308 or even possibly 7mm mag(asmallermag.)represents good middle ground, for all around cartridges. these are the maximum most hunters can shoot under field conditions, and the recoil is about all most can take.

but it is in my opinion that the lesser recoil of the standard cartridge contributes to more accurate shooting, there for, thats why i favor it. the -06 has stood the test of time. will the wsm/ultra mag stuff do the same or will it slide into obscurity? who knows!

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

I guess about the only thing I can really add into this post would be that the new breed of super magnums only really came into there own in the early 1980's. Which makes me think what would the guides and hunters in the know before then say in there opinion was or isthe best caliber(s). I'm quite sure that the tens if not hundereds of millions of big game animals killed in the last century and a half, if asked would say that bigger, faster, flatter, louder,harder hitting and better exspanding. Matters not to us,where still dead either way.:D

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

Just about any time one starts out with "you people" you've pretty much already lost the discussion.

Nonetheless, in answer to your question, for me personally, it is the summation across a group of variables that important to me:that satisfyingly loudK-THUD on impact, the greater reaction by the animal on impact, the ability to drill right thru bone or long penetrations of soft tissue andthe abilitytake less than pretty presentations.

Also, we pick up secondary elk tags for our annual elk hunt. When you get into elk, you are into the elk. Mags work great for me as they allow for the convincing slap down on elk #1 to where I can quickly focus in on elk #2 instead of waitingon the "he shouldgo down any second now.... syndrome.

Personally, I put the 270, 7mmRemMag, 30-06, 300WinMag all at the same felt recoil level, all pretty darntame. I do recognize that the degree of riflemanship and knowledge regarding recoil managementdoes vary wildly across hunters, given the low level of training most receive.

It's kind of like riding horses: some want the old grey mare and other want the thoroughbred; it largely depends on the capability of the rider.

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

Hello there Minnesota: Your posts are difficult to read and poorly written.AlthoughI enjoy shooting my 375 Ruger NON MAGNUM, which weighs in at 4 ounces more than a current production M70 in 270 win, I need a cart to carry it?? I have a backup 350 Rem MAGNUM that weighs in at 6 ounces less that the 375 Ruger, which has about 2,000 fewer ft lbs of energy. What evidence can you provide that "magnum" rifles weigh more than their non-magnum counterparts and need wheels to be carried? The MAGNUM cartridges (350 Rem) have significantly less recoil than the non-magnum case (375 Ruger). When you say "i know what magnums are all about so you advacates are not fooling anyone." I think you are talking out of your a$$. Please correct the fiction in your posts.

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

by "you people"i mean you guys that use almost twice the rifle that is required. and what i mean by magnums is guns with so much recoil that it makes you want to flinch just looking at them. i own several cannons and i bought them, because people told me they could do all these wonderful things and were so much better than a standard cartridge and thats just not the case. in reality it just made me shoot like crap.
since when has the -06 not been powerful enough? if that will do the job, why do you guys insist on a big cannon? only in your alternate reality do magnums have such an advantage. in the real world all you can tell the difference is the recoil. you can use a -06 or you can use a .600 nitro express. but at the end of the day they both do the job, its just the -06 does it with less recoil.

95% of people at the shooting range i go to, could not hit the vitals of a big game animal at 100 yds, even if they were shooting from a bench rest. i see alot of guys shooting .300 and .338 and they cant hit anything with it. terrible groups everytime!!!!!! i have seen people get poped in the eye with their scopes, stocks splitting and getting fractures, bedding screws losening, scopes always losing their zero, and shooting so bad that it makes me laugh. all of this because of heavy recoil. sorry guys but i just dont think it is worth the extra power.

i was convinced that bigger was better, i found out the hard($$) way.

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

Sounds like YOU may be best served by the more moderate cartridges that you can better handle.
Dangerous business however taking what works foryou and then make a blanket statement applying it to all the "you 'magnum' people" out there that do not share your same convictions.

RE: Are bigger cartridges really better?
 

I don't shoot magnums because they don't work for me and the standard calibers do. If you can use a magnum and hit your target then by all means use and if makes you feel safer all the more reason to use it. I have seen people with all caliber sizes shoot well and stupidly caliber didn't a thing to do with it. I like the larger standard calibers and limit my range to the firearm that I have at the time. I have seen deer hunters back east with the big 338 up magnums while I walked around with my 30-30 and watched them shoot from one hill to the other and still miss and then cuss the rifle for not being powerful enough. I left the area for fear that I could be the next thing that received that poor shot from that magnum shooter. I have also seen people who knew the limits of their rifle no matter the caliber and knew when the shot was right and when to just sit and watch the game animal walk out of sight and then go see if they could get a better shot at it later.