alaska game management
 

I just heard that Alaskagoing to start managing wildlife with a specific focus on meat production. Basically there will be more intence preditor control.
I wonder what everyone thinks of this. Should predetors be managed only in areas where prey is in trouble or do you think Alaska should be just another high fence type operation.
To make things even better maybe start suplimental feeding of caribou or better still just, just bring in some reindeer.
I guess where I stand is a bit obvious. Just wonder what the wolf haters think.

RE: alaska game management
 

Shoot all wolves on sight.

RE: alaska game management
 

I definately believe that AK should be managed to hunt all wildlife, but predators should not receiveany more pressure than what is needed for absolute safety (although some places, like AK,you should have to just take your chances:D) and to maintain a healthy ecosystem. What's wilderness without every card in the deck present, imho.

RE: alaska game management
 

Another high fence operation? Are you serious tangozulu? Do you have the slightest comprehension of just how big Alaska is? There's no "wolf hater" about the intense management that is being implemented. "Wolf manager" is more appropriate. Right now much of Alaska is seeing populations of grizzly bear, black bear, and wolves at all time high levels, while at the same time prey species are at the lowest levels they've been in decades. Alaska's moose population is about 1/4 what it was 30 years ago and there's areas like the Alaska Peninsula where they have essentially no calf survival in the caribou herd due to predation. In most of Alaska natural predators take 10 times or more of the number of prey animals (namely moose and caribou) than human hunters do. The management scheme that is being worked up presently isn't intended to wipe out any predator species, or artificially farm prey species. Rather it's intended to reduce greatly inflated predator populations to try and allow prey species populations to rebound to levels at or near what they were a few decades ago. Much of the intense management is just relaxing existing regulations by allowing for longer seasons, baiting of grizzlies in some areas, the sale of bear hides and claws from management areas, and land and shoot wolf harvests in select areas. None of the intense management regulations are statewide, rather they are focused on specific areas that are seeing the greatest predator problems. Do you have a better suggestion than that? Maybe we can all sit around and suck our thumbs and point fingers at each other. That sure accomplishes a lot. If you don't like Alaska's stand on predator control then STAY IN CANADA!!! I guess where I stand is a bit obvious too, but the big difference is I'm standing in ALASKA right now!!!

AK Jeff

RE: alaska game management
 

AK Jeff..........
I am at this moment 10 miles above the Alaskan border and 30 miles from Juneau. This e-mail is going out via satelite.
Yesterday we spent about 40 minutes airborn on both sides of the border. How big is Alaska? About the same size as Quebec and it fits into the NorthWesTerritories exactly twice. So to me, size simply doesn't matter.
The caribou herds we share tend to have the crap shot out of them before they can cross into the Canadian winter ranges. Ditto the moose that inhait the river valleys out of wrangle, haines, juneau.
Just maybe a bit less subsitance hunting is in order. Face it most Alaskans live in big cities not wall tents. We not only hunt the same species but in fact the same animals. The difference is I seem able to not only tollerate wolves and bears, but can even compete with them..
Try kiddin the guys down south, your waisin your time with me.

RE: alaska game management
 

Nice try with the red herring there tangozulu, but you didn't make any point whatsoever regarding predator control. Explain to us all how it is such a bad idea to try and reduce predator numbers when they are at historic highs while their primary prey species are at the lowest levels they've been in decades. Please fill us in why this is such a horrid idea that constitutes turning Alaska into "another high fence operation." I'm all ears. As far as Alaskans shooting the crap out of the shared caribou herd, let's take a look at that too. There's two main caribou herds that migratebetween the two countries. The 40-mile herd that ranges from the eastern interior of Alaska through the central Yukon is one and the Porcupine herd that ranges from NE Alaska through the Brooks Ranges and into northern/central Yukon is the other. The 40-mile herd currently numbers about40,000 animals, while the Porcupine herd isprobably 100,000 and change. The 40-mile harvest is limited by registration permit and thetotal harvest isabout 500 animals annually. The Porcupine herd is probably the least utilized large caribou herd in all of Alaska due to the high costof accessing it. It's mostly utilized by the natives of Arctic Village and total harvest of the herd islikely in just the hundreds of animals. So explain to me how a roughly 1% harvest by Alaskans constitues "having the crap shot out of them before they can cross into the Canadian winter ranges." Again, I'm all ears. As far as the moose in SE Alaska that's a totally different subject. The intense predator management doesn't even include SE Alaska. The reason there aren'tmany moose down there is because it's mostly crappy moose habitat.Coastal rainforest and rugged mountains aren'tprime moose habitat and it's likely that even with zero predation there still wouldn't be very many. What does living in a city vs. living in a wall tent have to do with understanding basic predator/prey dynamics? Are the peoplethat live in cities less deserving of the opportunity to go out and harvestwild game than those thatlive in a wall tent? The area just south of Fairbanks has the largest moose population (Unit 20A) of anywhere inthe state.Should the people there not be allowed to hunt just because they live in an urban setting? It's pretty obvious that you have any axe to grind with urban residents moreso than you have a legitimate gripe regarding Alaska's predator control plans. Either put some sound facts into this argument or shut up. Explain to all of these people from down south exactly howI'vebeen kidding them.I've provided legitimate facts and logical backing for my stance, now it's your turn to do the same. Please enlighten us all.

Let's look at the real issue here. Everybody has their ownvison of Alaska as the last frontier and anything that people do in that frontier infringes on their dreams. Whether it's oil exploration, gold mining, timber harvests, or killing some bears and wolves what it really does is compromise the idea that people have floating around in their heads. It really doesn't affect Alaska in the long term, just the idea of Alaska.

AK Jeff

RE: alaska game management
 

Great post! A lot of great points. I think the number of animals speaks for itself - the numbers of most species are taking some serous hits... That's a fact...

My brother lives in AK as well and he says the predaters are out of control in many area's...

RE: alaska game management
 

TZ,

You obviously don't know much about the history of the predator control that was implemented a few years ago. It's nothing new. You could at least learn something about what has happened in Alaska to make the AKF&G implement such a program. To make statements like "managing wildlife with a specific focus on meat production" and "do you think Alaska should be just another high fence type operation" is ignorant. Do yourself a favor and get educated if you want to have an intelligent conversation.

Jeff makes some excellent points, and he has an educated opinion.

Subsistence hunting here is another can of worms, and doesn't contribute much to the issue of predator control, other than the fact that folks who live in the bush who rely on game meat for their survival are naturally in favor of taking out a few wolves and bears. It's not like they can drive down to the supermarket to get meat.

FWIW, the number of wolves that have been killed in the last three years under the program is way lower than the F&G objectives.

Ken

RE: alaska game management
 

Well I figured I'd play a bit of the devil's advocate to start this thread.
That being said, I asked if Alaska should become another high fence operation for a specific reason? (I never said Alaska was a high fence opperation,Jeff)
It represents thecumulative result of intence game mangement.
High fences are not only to keep in the merchandise, but to KEEP OUT THE PREDATORS.
Don't ever think size will be any defence..................ever heardof Texas?
Nor does it happen overnite, though glacial, QDM, specialty feed plots, culling for genetic preferences are all part of thehunters vocabulary today, but unheard of when I started hunting.
For hunters to hate predators seems to be the fasion, but I view them as sole mates. I could post many pictures of wolves, grizzly and blackies that I have hunted, but there is simply no point in this disscusion. I have killed a lot of wolves, but never killed one because I hated it. I didn't hate the moose, elk or caribou I have been fortunate enough to harvest either. Weird me.
As far as educating myself, I think I am as aware of predator/prey relationshipsand managing for increased ungulate biomass as the next guy. Having my feet in or out of Alaska is irrelevant.
To debate the 40 mile herd issue is just changing the subject but let me ask you this? Who initiated the restriction on sport hunting of this herd years before Alaska?
Answer.....Yukon Government. Why? The portion of the herd that wintered in Canada
was in a dramatic decline while being hunted heavily on the Alaska side. Who removes 87% of all the catchable salmon headed back to Canada through Alaska?

As far as Staying in Canada.........not a very neighbourly comment. Iguess non-Alaskans aren't to have an opinion.

RE: alaska game management
 

tango,

Yet again you haven't backed up your original statement with a shred of evidence, just a bunch of BS speculation. You really need to drop the Texas high fence analogy because it just proves your level of ignorance in regard to this issue. I'll explain it again. Alaska is planning to reduce greatly inflated predator populations in a few select areas to try and increase the prey species that are at the lowest levels they've been in recent history. None of the areas are geographically isolated, and none of the policies are statewide so predators will still be able to move in and out of the intense mangement areas at will. There's nothing high fence comparable or even low fence comparable. Basically your argument doesn't hold water. You can call a cat a dog all day long and it doesn't make it a dog at the end of the day. If you have a legitimate gripe with the predator control program then explain it with a logical explanation. Don't compare it to completely unrelated policies and practicies as if they were one and the same.

As far as your "meat-production" statement I guess that is true. Last time I checked moose and caribou were made out of meat. I guess there is the chocolate moose variety too, but we don't see very many of those running around the woods in these parts.

My40-mile statements were a change of subject because YOU changed the subject. All I did was showed that your statements were completely unwarranted and had no merit whatsoever. I don't care if the Yukon implemented hunt restrictions there before Alaska. Alaska restricted that hunt 20 or 30 years ago so your present tense statements about the herds getting shot up before they get to Canadawas completely baseless.

What does salmon harvest in SE Alaska have to do with bear and wolf harvest in southcentral and interior Alaska? Yet again you throw another red herring into the mix to try and cover up the fact that you have nothing to argue concerning your orginal post. It looks to me like you just have a general beef with Alaskans and/or a disdain for predator control. Your arguments are no different than the Defenders of Wildlife nuts that sit in their offices in Connecticut saying that the Yellowstone wolves shouldn't be hunted even though their numbers have increased from 31 to 1500 in a dozen years. It's perfectly justified based on biological evidence and the management policies that are put in place. If you want to argue against predator control then you'd better have a compelling argument against it.

For the record I don't "hate" wolves or bears any more than you could say I "hate" any other game species I hunt. I just want to see them at reasonable numbers that aren't jeopardizing the ecosystem and my hunting opportunties in general.

Yep, my comments haven't been very neighborly, and frankly you and your uninformed opinions can stay in Canada for all I care. I don't think it's very neighborly for you to sit on your side of the border pointing fingers over here and making statements about policies that you have no understanding of whatsoever. I wouldn't go off half-cocked about policies in BC that I don't understand and I'd sure appreciate it you'd give me and my fellow Alaskans the same respect.

AK Jeff

RE: alaska game management
 

This is not going to be as educated as AK Jeff, but I live in Anchorage (yes its a city, sorry I love the wilderness, but the military won't let me live in the brooks range.) Even here there are multiple cases of wolves and bears overwhelming areas. Elmendorf AFB, if I am not mistaken is named after, a large pack of wolves that actually reside on base, I myself have seen some of the dens through glass. I think the point I was trying to make was that, there is a moose tag drawing on base (14C), and it is a great tag to draw it was at a 90% success rate of bagging a large animal. With the recent increase in numbers, there has been a decrease in success rate, now I am not saying the moose are being taken by the wolves but they are being driven out. These are just trends I see, no real evidence to back it up, just my opinion.

RE: alaska game management
 

greatest thread I have ever read so far...

RE: alaska game management
 

tango,

Is it safe to take your lack of response to my very simple questions and statements as a white flag of surrender regarding youroriginal statements? I guess we know now who was "kiddin the guys down south" and it wasn't me.

Here's another Alaskan predator that I bagged a few weeks ago. I guess I must "hate"them too just becauseI was willing to kill one.

AK Jeff

RE: alaska game management
 

Nice, Trap?

RE: alaska game management
 

330 connibear set over a bucket baited with some recalled ground beef that was deemed unfit for human consumption. I guess the wolverines didn't hear about the recall. Caught him in the northern foothills of the Brooks Range, and it was damn cold that day. Enough of my red herring for this thread.

AK Jeff

RE: alaska game management
 

No you'd be wrongJeff, sorry to dissapoint you.
I simply don't care to respond to any comments along the line of "I'm in Alaska and your not." Or, "if you don't like it, stay out of Alaska." I guess wolves must have been invented there?
What intelligent argument for pretator control did you bring to the thread with those remarks?
I have watched 9 wolves completely consume a young moose here over the course of the last 4 days. I was trying to upload a photo but the file is a bit too large. We are only a few miles outside the Alaska border so I don't know if this was a Canadian or American moose, but I tell you these wolves earned their dinner as much as any hunter I ever met. It looks like one of the pups has a serious injury and I don't know if he's going to survive. I suppose I would have been more of an expert on predators had I managed to kill a few instead of just keeping tabs on them.
Nice Willy.....but if you really want a challenge try a rabbit call, it can work well too. My wife though, is unimpressed, as she has live trapped and collared many of those little devils, and she's just agirl.

tz

I've never thought of the Yukon River, as a coastal river.

RE: alaska game management
 

Thanks tz. Every time you type you make me look better and better. Thanks for throwing yet another post out there that shows you have no argument whatsoever. Thanks for sharing the story of your wolf encounter like anyone reading this gives a crap. What we want to hear is your argument against predator control in Alaska. Whether you just watched a wolf eat a moose or whether or not your wife traps wolverines has nothing to do with your original assinine post. Back it up dude!!! Nobody ever said wolves don't earn their dinner. All we ever said was their population has reached peak numbers that should be brought down to healthier levels. Nobody said they had it easy. I'm starting to think you have a serious comprehension problem, or else instead of just admitting that you're original assessment was way off base you're just trying to back pedal your way out by repeatedly changing the subject. You made the assertion that predator control would turn Alaska into a high fence operation and that we might as well start sublemental feeding of the caribou or just bring in some reindeer. You brought this on yourself man. If you don't like Alaskans telling you to keep your stupid opinions in Canada, then don't make stupid statements, or else at least just try to back up your stupid statements. That's all I'm asking for is a logical explanation. Don't throw out a bunch of emotion, speculation, or otherwise ignorant BS. Just back up your statements with some reasoning.

You've never thought of the Yukon River as a coastal river??? I guess you just earned yourself an A+ in 1st grade geography. Thanks for that little bit of nothing. In case you were wondering the Congo is in Africa.

AK Jeff

RE: alaska game management
 

By the way; it's SOUL mates. Unless of course you have some sort of bestial foot fetish that I don't even want to know about.

AK Jeff

RE: alaska game management
 

tangozulu,

Probably best to try and save a little face and stop while you're ahead. I won't argue with you on this subject since you don't really (and honestly) know d!ck on what Alaska does up here. Keep speculating.