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RE: Why are hunts so damn expensive???
I don't have a problem for what they charge but I choose not to pay an outfitter some of what I think is ridiculas.
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RE: Why are hunts so damn expensive???
I agree, hunting with an outfitter is more expensive than alot of us can afford, myself included. It's a shame, but a large part of that expense is caused by the rules and regulationsour government hascreated on guides/outfitters. In most states, Just anybody can't set-up shop and start charging to take us hunting. In nearly every state, there are mandatory training & testingin safety, emergency first aid, guide skills, etc. that they must first take & pass. Then after they get all of that out of the way, they have to purchase a guides license. Usually, that's from someone who already has one because the state has put a limit on the number of guides/outfitters it will allow & theyhave already filled all available guide licenses. Next, in alot of places they have to find landowners willing to lease them hunting rights to private property within the area they are licensed to hunt. Even on public land, they have to apply for the exclusive rights to guide hunts in a given area of the National Forest.Once againvirtually all of those rights have been previously assigned to someone. Thus, again, they are looking for an existing outfitter willing to sell their rights to hunt in a given area of public land. Once they get all of that lined up, they then have to purchase or lease all of the tents, horses, stoves, bedding, lanterns, trucks, trailers, fuel, etc necessary to get their new clients to the camps. Finally, since they only have the short period of time alotted to hunt (the season), they must take on enough clients simultaneously to make the operation pay enough to cover expenses and make a decent living. Finally, do to our current "sue everybody climate" here in the U.S, you can't forget the cost an outfitter must put out to purchase insurance for his business. Ever look into what it costs to purchase the insurance necessary to cover you and your businessif you have an bunch of guys with rifles climbing aboard horses and heading up the side of a 40 degree slope?? Not to mention the fact that no one can guarantee howmuch experienceyour clients have either handling horses orusing firearms. Think about how much it costs you to get liablity insurance on your car, then think about how much it must cost to get liability insurance against the possible lawsuits if a client were to get killed by another client or seriously injured by a horse or mule. Heck, even the insurance to cover the possibility of a client having a heart attack and dropping dead while on a hunt would cost a small fortune since his/her family may just decide that they want to holdyou responsible in a court of law. At any rate, all of those things add up. And any outfitter must cover those costs in just a few short weeks every year. (By the way, I'm not an outfitter; never have been, and have only used an outfitting service once in my life. That was on a bighorn sheep hunt & I had no other way to get myself and my gear into the hunting area. I checked, and it was going to cost me almost as much as I spenton the guide just to rent the horses to do a proper job of scouting, and then rent them again for the hunting season. Guess what, once again, when I checked into why, I found out our state has regulations dictating who and how many people can rent pack animals within the National Forest. There are also regulations dictating how much insurance such an individual must have in order to rent horses on public land. Not to mention the fact that when you take pack animals into the national forest, you must also pack in "certified weedless" feed for them while they are there.And thanks to PETA, we now have regulations dictating how the animals must be looked after while they're being kept in the hunting camp.) Regards, & Good Huntin', LlindeX |
RE: Why are hunts so damn expensive???
I pay for outfitted hunts. I'm not ashamed of it either. I see fellow hunters from my area make the annual trek to colorado to stomp around with the other nomads in over hunted areas. Once in a blue moon one of those guys brings home a rag horn. generally though the trip is considered a succes if one of the 5-6 hunters bags a cow. and there certainly isn't anything wrong with that. They have a great time. It just isn't for me.
I would rather stay home, then drive out there and fight the rest of the idiots for elbow room. It really doesn't suit me to be in the elk woods and hear 4 wheelers running the roads all day: "Oh whats that?" is it a bull? cow? Nope its a polaris. No when I go which isn't every year. I pay to be dropped in the back country. Lets get way back in where we won't see another soul. Sure I could do it DIY, and if I lived closer I would. But the pure logistics make it more sensible to hire it done. By the time I trailered my horses out, got them acclimated, scouted a camp site, packed in all the gear and food, and got camp set up, it would be time to head back to work. No I'll pay someone else to do that, plus they will hopefully know the area good enough that we can start off hunting rather than learning the country. It costs a pretty penny, no doubt. But, what doesn't anymore. I agree that the costs are getting out of control. I will either have to bite the bullet and pay it or (gasp) stay home. |
RE: Why are hunts so damn expensive???
I don't have a problem with people charging whatever someone else is willing to pay. It does sadden me to see it getting harder and harder for the average Joe to hunt but I don't blame that on outfitters. I also don't care if someone pays to go hunt. I am not at all impressed with anything they get if they are paying however. I am impressed with the guy that does it on his own. In other words when I see a mount of someone who pays tohunt I don't think "there is a good hunter" I do think "there is a rich hunter".
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RE: Why are hunts so damn expensive???
ORIGINAL: MosesLakehunter I don't have a problem with people charging whatever someone else is willing to pay. It does sadden me to see it getting harder and harder for the average Joe to hunt but I don't blame that on outfitters. I also don't care if someone pays to go hunt. I am not at all impressed with anything they get if they are paying however. I am impressed with the guy that does it on his own. In other words when I see a mount of someone who pays tohunt I don't think "there is a good hunter" I do think "there is a rich hunter". I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I most certainly am not "Rich". I and my wife make a decent living. I save a couple of years of overtime and side jobcash so I can do what I love. You can think of me what you want. And to be honest, I'm not over impressed with someone who goes year after year and comes home empty handed.What I think of Is "Sad". I hear them talk about how cheap it is, and how much they save compared to me.But,what I see is guys going 5,6,7 even 10 years before they tag anything. Even at $1,000 a year that would pay for avery nice huntwith considerably better odds.You know the definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Granted if you hunt every year Totally DIY and bag game more times than not, then you are probably a better hunter than me. No newsflash there, I've known several people that I consider better hunters than me. I don't hunt to impress other folks. I hunt for myself. I'm proud of my trophies hanging on the wall. I know how hard I worked to 1. save the $ 2. climbing the mountain 3) hauling out the meat etc. And FYI just because its guided doesn't mean that you don't have to hunt. Its not like the guides have them tied up. You have to get out and glass and walk and "hunt". Despite what you might think guided hunt are quite often unsuccessful. But I end with this: I wish the best of luck in all your endeavors. We will just have to disagree on this issue. |
RE: Why are hunts so damn expensive???
ORIGINAL: ShatoDavis ... I would rather stay home, then drive out there and fight the rest of the idiots for elbow room. ... Anyway, please watch your language, as it may offend people who hunt on their own, fair chase on public land. ;) |
RE: Why are hunts so damn expensive???
There are a lot of outfitters out there that are reasonable but the one's that charge 15-20k and are no kill no pay are high fence hunts and those are the ones that I do not understand. I was at the Sacremento Cal sportsman show a few weeks back and I was talking to a young guy that has 20,000 acre high fence elk hunt for 20k no lic or tags but it's like going to a cattle ranch and picking out the biggest bull a shooting it how much fun is that? This kid told me that he has even shoot the bull for the hunter before. He had a dvd running on a TV and there was a hunting showthat a few weeks before I seen the same hunt on the outdoor network on the TV show it took one shot on the real dvd this pro hunter missed twice and then it took four more shots put this 7x7 bull down I wish I could remeber the huters show and name I never laughed so much standing at that diplay an hearing this young man telling the story while I was watching the real show not the edited one
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RE: Why are hunts so damn expensive???
ORIGINAL: laufer303 ORIGINAL: ShatoDavis ... I would rather stay home, then drive out there and fight the rest of the idiots for elbow room. ... Anyway, please watch your language, as it may offend people who hunt on their own, fair chase on public land. ;) I'll use whatever language I want. I've already got a daddy so you can stop worrying about me. If you like hunting where the pressure is high then go for it. I don't. Do not try to belittle me or my hunting style. I will not stand for it. You can think that the guides lead us by the hand and do everything but shoot for me if you want. But I can assure you that it just isn't the case. I don't care what you think of me. When you state it on here then I get defensive. I also hunt FAIR CHASE ON PUBLIC LAND. The only difference is I live a long way away so I pay an outfitter to get me into the remote areas. Have you ever hunted with a partner. Shared glassing duty to cover more ground. Helped a buddy stalk, dress, and pack his game? Well, thats what a guide is to me. I'll hunt my way, You hunt yours. Best of luck! |
RE: Why are hunts so damn expensive???
I wonder where all these consultants (booking Agents)come into play?
Not sure I would want to pay for another middleman but someone is.. Seems like life is too full of these guys already......so how do they impact the final hunt costs? just wondering |
RE: Why are hunts so damn expensive???
ORIGINAL: ShatoDavis ORIGINAL: laufer303 ORIGINAL: ShatoDavis ... I would rather stay home, then drive out there and fight the rest of the idiots for elbow room. ... Anyway, please watch your language, as it may offend people who hunt on their own, fair chase on public land. ;) I'll use whatever language I want. I've already got a daddy so you can stop worrying about me. If you like hunting where the pressure is high then go for it. I don't. Do not try to belittle me or my hunting style. I will not stand for it. You can think that the guides lead us by the hand and do everything but shoot for me if you want. But I can assure you that it just isn't the case. I don't care what you think of me. When you state it on here then I get defensive. I also hunt FAIR CHASE ON PUBLIC LAND. The only difference is I live a long way away so I pay an outfitter to get me into the remote areas. Have you ever hunted with a partner. Shared glassing duty to cover more ground. Helped a buddy stalk, dress, and pack his game? Well, thats what a guide is to me. I'll hunt my way, You hunt yours. Best of luck! |
RE: Why are hunts so damn expensive???
Its an expensive hobby, guide or no guide. Pencil it out, you'll be suprised.
LIVE IT and LOVE IT. |
RE: Why are hunts so damn expensive???
ORIGINAL: tangozulu I wonder where all these consultants (booking Agents)come into play? Not sure I would want to pay for another middleman but someone is.. Seems like life is too full of these guys already......so how do they impact the final hunt costs? just wondering The rub is finding the good outfitters. Many of the best don't advertise. Many don't have a computer much less a website. So how to find them? I've been on 3 hunts that Atcheson's hooked me up with, every single outfitter was top notch... Is it worth 10%? On a once in a lifetime type of hunt, to me it is. |
RE: Why are hunts so damn expensive???
ORIGINAL: laufer303 No wonder with your mouth that you have to pay somebody to be your buddy. Best of luck to you too. Do you feel better about yourself now that you've bad mouthed me? Does it help your self confidence to attack someone else?Do you get pleasure from it? Does it make you feel like a superior hunter to deminish the accomplishments of someone else? You see I never ran down the way you hunt. I said it wasn't for me. ShatoDavis said: Sure I could do it DIY, and if I lived closer I would. But the pure logistics make it more sensible to hire it done. By the time I trailered my horses out, got them acclimated, scouted a camp site, packed in all the gear and food, and got camp set up, it would be time to head back to work. You see you try to run down the way I hunt, and I think the real reason is jealousy. You got hung up on the word "idiot" when I'm quite certain that if you thought for a second you would know what I mean. Many of those guys that go to hunt the National forests of Colorado are good friends of mine. They are all excellent hunters. They have a great time when they go. But everyone of them says the same thing: "there are too many people hunting in the area. Too many "idiots" running their 4 wheelers up and down the service roads. Too many "idiots" blasting off every round in their magazines in rapid order. Too many "idiots" taking 500-600-700 yard shots at elk crossing a saddle because its the only shot they will have most likely. Too many idiots getting drunk and beligerent. Too many idiots hunting drunk etc. Thats who I meant when I said "idiots". And if you truely are Being one of those, as you called us "the rest of the idiots", |
RE: Why are hunts so damn expensive???
Costs for Booking Agents
In almost all cases, you will pay the same cost for an outfitted/guided hunt no matter whether you book direct through the outfitter or go through a booking agent. Outfitting is a business just like any other; and marketing and selling costs are included in the total cost of the hunt no matter which route you choose to go. Some outfitters choose to do their own marketing which means they incur costs for magazine advertising, maintaining a website, having booths at sports shows like the SCI show in Reno, the Harrisburg Sports Show in Harrisburg, etc., and handling all correspondance. Others opt to have booking agents do their marketing for them for a commision. Regardless of the route, those marketing costshave to beincluded in the total cost of the hunt; and you will pay about the same no matter which way you go. (By the way, the booking agent fees probably average closer to 15% rather than 10%) If an unethical outfitter with a booking agent arrangement tried to go behind the booking agent's back and discount a hunt by booking direct with a client, the booking agent would drop him in a New York minute. One word of caution is in order when working with booking agents, however. I would only work with the larger outfits that have been in business for a number of years and have withstood the test of time. They are in it for the long run and have reputations to protect. All it takes to get into the booking agent business is an 800 number, a kitchen table, and possibly a website. While a top quality booking agent is worth his weight in gold, some little guys are in the business mainly to hustle free hunts from outfitters and couldn't care less about matching clients with good quality reasonably priced hunts. These are the guys to steer clear of. |
RE: Why are hunts so damn expensive???
looking atbrown bear hunting 10000 an up , come on now thats crazy. i feel sorry for most all of us thatwould like to do that but will never get the chance.
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RE: Why are hunts so damn expensive???
I think $40,000 for a new pickup is crazy too. $3.39 for a gallon of gas is crazy too. If you don't want to pay the price don't.
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RE: Why are hunts so damn expensive???
You better go in debt now for that big hunt as the natives are getting a bit wise and are talking about treaty right,s such as any white man has no right to guide a hunter on their land or public land as they are are starting to fight for these Provincal Parks and public lands.If their is to be a guided hunt they are going to start taking a % of that hunt moneyfrom the guide or camp so if this does happen the cost will double.There a have been too many conflicts with the natives in the last few yrs that the goverment is trying to keep out of it as they know they will have to turn those lands back to natives to avoid a big conflict such as Ipperwash Provincal Park,Rice Lake Serpent Mounds Provincal Park all here in Ontario and others in Canada.Most of these lands were leased out to the Canadian Goverment and they have since ran out and the natives have taken them back with very little or no notice at all.
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RE: Why are hunts so damn expensive???
I've only done "Do it yourself" thus far but wouldn't mind trying an outfitted or semi guided hunt. Or even a drop camp for that matter but you are right about that Shatodavis, it's a matter of finding a good outfitter and there are so many options out there. I did have a good bow hunt last year on a draw area in Colorado. Never saw another hunter in the woods for 10 days and only a few on the backroads. Took a young bull and then a huge one came in after the shot. Within the next few years I really want to make the effort to save for an outfitter hunt. Just to see how I like that...
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RE: Why are hunts so damn expensive???
In terms of a brown bear hunt 10k is a bargain, maybe too cheap for a quality hunt. Think about how much it costs to own and maintain an airplane, or a 60-80 foot yacht for the boat based hunts. It costs thousands just to feed them in a land where everything has to be flown in. I can only imagine what the insurance costs for these operators. Plus the guides, camps, support staff.I assume the wages are much higher in a place where milk is probably more than $5 bucks a gallon.
I too lust after one of these hunts. The brown bear is my number1 animal I would like to hunt. But it will probably never happen. It kills me to think about the cost of many hunts today howeverwhen you consider the guides are working 16-18 hrs a day thier wage is a bargain. As to the booking agents: The guys who are looking for an easy buck won't last long. thereis no easy money in this business. If an outfitter is willing to book the hunt around his Agent he has just shown you he is not trustworthy. If he is willing to screw the guy who brings his clients to the door He is certainly willing to screw YOU! A good agent has invested thousands on every outfitter to make sure they are legit, and thousands more on the ones who didn't make the cut. Due to the here today gone tomorrow agents, the days of a free evaluation hunt are over exept for a very select few. I spent time with 4 outfitters last year on my own dime and none of them made the cut. This costs alot of money but I do it so you don't have to. |
RE: Why are hunts so damn expensive???
ORIGINAL: ShatoDavis ORIGINAL: laufer303 No wonder with your mouth that you have to pay somebody to be your buddy. Best of luck to you too. Do you feel better about yourself now that you've bad mouthed me? Does it help your self confidence to attack someone else?Do you get pleasure from it? Does it make you feel like a superior hunter to deminish the accomplishments of someone else? You see I never ran down the way you hunt. I said it wasn't for me. ShatoDavis said: Sure I could do it DIY, and if I lived closer I would. But the pure logistics make it more sensible to hire it done. By the time I trailered my horses out, got them acclimated, scouted a camp site, packed in all the gear and food, and got camp set up, it would be time to head back to work. You see you try to run down the way I hunt, and I think the real reason is jealousy. You got hung up on the word "idiot" when I'm quite certain that if you thought for a second you would know what I mean. Many of those guys that go to hunt the National forests of Colorado are good friends of mine. They are all excellent hunters. They have a great time when they go. But everyone of them says the same thing: "there are too many people hunting in the area. Too many "idiots" running their 4 wheelers up and down the service roads. Too many "idiots" blasting off every round in their magazines in rapid order. Too many "idiots" taking 500-600-700 yard shots at elk crossing a saddle because its the only shot they will have most likely. Too many idiots getting drunk and beligerent. Too many idiots hunting drunk etc. Thats who I meant when I said "idiots". And if you truely are Being one of those, as you called us "the rest of the idiots", If my comments aggravated you this much, after you call other hunters idiots, well so be it. I appologize to others for having to read this ****. |
RE: Why are hunts so damn expensive???
Off topic thread. The natives you are talking about have hunted these lands in the past and present as I did with my grandfather when I was a kid. I still do. I am native and hunt the land relatively free ofthe beurocrocy.
To imply we are getting wise is uneducated to say the least. We will still hunt free on this land and definately explore the economic opportunities that have been in a strangle holdin the past. |
RE: Why are hunts so damn expensive???
The prices are that high on hunts because there are people who can and will fork out the money. It's that simple. Same for gas prices and anything else.
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RE: Why are hunts so damn expensive???
I agree with yall but one thing yall need to understand is that its the land owners that have the outfitters by the balls......they now what they can get.
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RE: Why are hunts so damn expensive???
How one views it all is largely a matter perspective.
IMHO, there are two sides to the coin andone has to choose which side to use as one's viewpoint: (1) It is the hunting world's fault and/or the fault of "other powers"thatsome of the hunts I want are are "too" expensive and therefore I can't have them. (I'm a victim.) OR (2) It is my responsibility to earn what I need to earnin order to do what I want to do, no one else. (I'm responsible for my own situation and for making things happen.) DIY remote/away from home hunts are great and Ihave my share, and doing my annual elk camp is a favorite; however, I recognize that there is a whole class of hunts that if I want them, thenit is NOT going to be DIY. If it is my goal to get these hunts done, then it is my responsibility to make it happen (in balance with my other goals). It may take time, but IMHO one has to strive, can't just live life at random. Take your pick. Best of luck with whichever you choose. |
RE: Why are hunts so damn expensive???
Well here's my 2 cents worth. I agree the prices have gotten completely out of hand, including the cost of tags. I have been hunting out west since 1982. Never have I hired an outfitter. Always DIY types of hunts and I have only been skunked once. That was 3 years ago in Co.
These DIY hunts are very affordable if you take the time to research. Public property as well as private property are available but as with anything worth whileyou must do the leg work. If you are happy paying thouands of hard earned dollars to hire an outfitter so be it. The more hunters who do this make the cost increase and this in my opinion isn't good for anyone but the outfitters. I agree they have to earn a living too but they don't have to gouge us. It's all about the money and big racks. Spudrow from Missouri |
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