Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

Thinking about doing a little bow elk hunting in grizzley country with a couple of friends. Is is worth the effort to pack a side arm considering I am not a great shot with one (I would only use if I absolutely had to)? Is a .45adequate (I know a .44 is better)?Use pepper spray only? Roll up in a ball and hope for the best? Hunt with a slower partner?

Thanks for the help!

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

I would recommend pepper spray. You may just get yourself into more trouble by shooting at a bearif you aren't proficient with thehandgun. But a slow parnter works too.:D

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

No 45. Why risk your LIFE.

Nothing less than 44 magnum.

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

Up here in British Columbia where a sidearm isn't an optionmy partners and I eachlegally carry a 12 guage folding stocked Winchester 1300 Defender as a security weaponwhen we're hunting SE B.C., with the first 2 rounds OO buck followed by 5 rifled slugs.If you have any reason to believe you might have bear problems etc. I would think a 45cal handgun used on something with a 900 lb + body weightwould be a death knell for sure and bearspray is just seasoning.We've had occasion to have to get out of an area to avoid a problem several times,avoidance is the best way to be safe-- situation awareness -- but you can bet your %^&# the 12 guages were loaded and the safeties were off each and every time we left the scene.If you've never had an encounter with a Grizz usually the first time a good fresh roll of Charmin and a change of drawers would be the order of the day ---------

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

Yep. I've only seen 3 Grizzly's in my life. Sadly, those three were in a trailer at a sports show that some man had, that had raised them from cubs. They were basically tame. He was rolling around on the floor with them like they were puppies. Anyway, after seeing those 3 bear, and the size of them compared to the man, I'm now a FIRM believer that any Grizzly Bear that wants to have you for lunchwill.

I couldn't believe just how big they were. I should've known that they were big because as I made my way up to the door, everyone that stepped inside the trailer was saying the same exact words, "Holy Sh!t!". IFrom that day on, I've had a new found respect for the Grizzly Bear.

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

i would first check the law to see if you can carry a backup. when i went on mine it was illegal to carry a gun. now i am going after a grizzly in april and my guide told me that a 44 is ok and to buy spray but im taking a SW 500 as back up
if you can carry practise before you go, dont want to miss when you need to be on the money , then they call you lunch

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

I carry a snubnose 44 mag. If you miss him with the bullet, you can burn his wiskers with muzzle flash :D

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

If your not a proficient handgun shooter and needed to go immediately then I would definately go for pepper spray. However, if you have time to practice and can reload your own or afford to spend a little coin then I would go the SW 500. You can get a short nosed version and while out past 50 yards it probably wouldn't do ya much good. but practice and be able to place all six shots in center mass at around 20-30 yards and i would figure you would good to go.

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

pheeew a Grizz with a handgun --- maybe a Black bear,I've had to dump only 1 Grizz at close quartersin48 years in the bush and that was with a 45-70 Marlin G lever gun,all 4 rounds in the boiler room starting at 25yards and the thing blew past me dead on the run like a school bus.You are a brave person,practice straight fast shooting and try to factor in the panic part when something with a head the size of 16 gallon garbage can is comin at you at 20 miles an hour --- good luck;)

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

I wouldn't carry the heavy 44 elk hunting ,as long as you are hunting with a buddie I would carry a tiny 22 snub nose. In a pinch you shoot your buddie in the knee and run. Who would ever know.


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RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

Lots of good advice so far, been there and done that , my .44 seemed woefully inadequate when I was in the presence of grizzlys in Wyo, that being said I have hunted with my .44 since 1972 and have killed a lot of animals deer/pig/coyotes and bobcats also bear hunted but with no luck so far, with all the hoopla about the .460/.454/.480 and the mighty .500 I still carry my .44 because I'm proficient with it out to about 75 yds with open sight's. useing xtp's /Garrett or Buffalo Bore ammo the .44 is a formidable weapon it will punch completely through both shoulders on a deer at 40 yds . The key to your saftey is becoming a cool good shot and staying within your accuracy range. Last year a guy (lucky rascal ) killed a charging grizzly at about 8 yds with his .44 in Alaska so it can be done and it sure beats the hell out of fighting a bear with your bare hands. I carry a S/W 629 s/s .44 in a modified nylon shoulder holster and even hiking/hunting for miles it doesn't get heavy, my previous Rugers were way to heavy to be comfortable all day.

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

I am going to be purchasing a Ruger Redhawk 4" in the very near future for a backup gun in bear country. I think with the Garrett cartridges and endless factory loads available it'd be a better option if you found yourself in need of ammo. I carry my Vaquero 357 with 180gr hardcasts around home for black bear and I feel it to be quite adequate. Just practice and practice because if you can't hit a bear under pressure it dont matter if you have a .22 or a RPG you'll be turning up as little brown piles in the woods.

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

Thanks to all for your replies.

I was originally thinking about taking my .45 auto because I can lay out 7 shots in a very short amount of time thinking that 7 from a .45 was better than 2 or 3 from a .44. I can borrow a Redhawk .44 with a 6" barrel.

I think I will go only with the pepper spray unless my 2 fellow hunters also decide to pack because I highly doubt I would be able to hit that beer can size brain on a moving griz.

The likelihood of seeing a griz is slim. the odds of having one attack is even slimmer. If I had to choose one weapon it would be my 12 ga. with 00.

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

Daisy Red Ryder followed with a rocket propelled grenade launcher

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

It doesn't hurt to take your 45 anyway, and sure your odds are slim of seeing a griz, but add fresh Elk meat, a blood trail, and a hungery bear it does increase your odds a little. Good Luck.

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

keep in mind that pepper spray is like having someone else pack your parachute, your life is in the mfg's hand's, I've talked to 2 hunters who carried pepper spray and tested it before hand as reccomended and then had the spay clog up at a crucial time, I feel more confident dropping my cartridges in myself and being in charge of the situation to a certain extent, just curious, what makes you so sure that you won't run into a bear ?

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

I can't guarantee I won't run into a bear but I think the odds are in my favor. Chances are we shouldn't see one. Chances are if we do it will move away.

There will be 3 of us.Strength in numbers.

It is also my understanding bears don't like horses and have been known to be overly agressive toward them.

I can borrow a .44 mag and will probably take it along with the spray. I will encourage my hunting partner to also carry a .44.

If I really believe my odds were that great in getting attacked I wouldn't be going. I just want to take some reasonable precautions without over reacting. Famous last words.

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

Correction on last message. Bears have NOT been known to be overly agressive toward horses. They tend to leave them alone.

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

I don't think .45 acp is adequate. It's not sufficient velocity resultiing in less force needed to break through the heavy bones of even the skull of a grizzly bear.
.44 mag or .454 casull revolver. I've gone to carrying while hunting Elk inwestern WYa Ruger Redhawk .44 mag.with Corbon 300 or 320 gr. hard cast bullets as a backup sidearm. These cast bulletswon't blow apart when hitting solid bone. I hope never to have to use it, but we did see mtn. lion tracks 3/4 way up the ridges in the dark woods bordering the area we shot our Elk this year. So, one has to be alert and prepared. Stay safe.

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

I live and bowhunt in griz country and have much respect. While slipping in to my treestand prior to daylight and seeing signs of griz ranking trees along the way is kinda nervy. People get attacked and eaten here on the north end of Glacier/Waterton Parks every year so the thought is always in the back of my head that an encounter with a griz is high. I have never had an actual face off with a griz but I have had some encounters with blackies. A black bear is kinda like encountering a dog, some run and some attack, but a griz is totally different and your not on top of the food chain. I have had the living beegeezus scared out of me when I've encountered black sows with cubs and have been fortunate that the've ran off but its not that so with a griz. A griz has a personal space off appoximately a 100 yrds and if your within that range you are a potential threat. Year before last we had a griz sow that had 3 cubs and the sow would actually charge and ram vehicles comeing up the moutain here.
A pistol will give you added confidence but to make a lethal shot at a charging griz when your stricken with fear only happens on TV, even with a possiblefatal shot the adrelian in the bear will be enough to kill you and you'll end up as bear patties. Bear spray is the best deterent as this will usually stop a bear in its tracks and buy you a moment before another possible attack. Grizzlies often make false charges before making the actual attack and this is where bear spray works. The most important thing is always be aware of your surroundings and be wise when foraging along streams when sounds are deaden.
Good Luck.

Bobby
Motana Bowhunter Instructor

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

LOL... I'm with dayna0306... you don't have to be faster than the griz.. you justhave to be faster than you're buddy!!

JCH

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

First thing is you need to check local regs. A lot of states do NOT allow any firearms while bow hunting.
If I had to carry one and was not "a good shot", get a snub nosed .454 Casull like the Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan. It has a 2 1/2" barrel and not much good out past 25 yards anyway. Most anybody could hit a Griz sized animal at 25 yards!

Orrrrrrrrr . . . go with peper spray like http://www.udap.com/
If you did shoot a Griz, you'd almost have to show a missing arm or leg to prove to local authorities that you were truly being attacked.

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

I've got my own ideas on this one. I don't have anything against grizzlies, but I personally carry a handgun. I can't see the pepper spray thing.

First, I learned in the military that if I really put my mind to it, I could function pretty well with a faceful of CS gas. It sounds silly, but a couple of us got the bright idea to toss the masks aside and train ourselves to deal with it. Your nose and eyes will run like crazy, but it can be dealt with. If I can learn that, why can't a grizzly? I think they're a lot tougher than me!

Second, you hear things like, "If you're not proficient with a handgun, go with pepper spray." Well I'm sorry, but who the he--is proficient with pepper spray? I've held the cans in a store, and they seem somewhat complex to me. Does anyone buy a dozen cans, then go out and use 11 of them for practice? At$50/can that adds up fast!If you just think about it for a bit, correctly deploying that pepper spray is no sure thing in the stress of a bear attack.

Third, hitting a charging bear with a pistol is only really difficult if you stay upright on your hind legs so you're shooting down on it. This seems so obvious to me that I wonder why no one ever mentions it. One should simply hit the ground as he draws his pistol, then shoot the bear from a sitting position. Doing so brings you right down to the bear's face level, thereby eliminating the problem of lead on a moving target. Effectively, in terms of hitting it in the head, it becomes a stationary target. I drill myself mentally on this idea, trying to make it an automatic reaction to drop to the ground if I ever have the misfortune to get in trouble with a bear.

Fourth, like all new ideas on this website, I'm sure I'll be ridiculed for this post. Oh well, I can handle it.

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

From my understanding, .44 is the minimum, .480 ruger packs more of a whollup than a .454 casulli and kicks less. My 2 choices are .44 or the .480, though I believe CZ makes a sweet sidearm chambered for up to some .44 supermag or 455 supermag, think it also will shoot .45 ammo.

Also you know what they say...."file off that front site, you won't want to cut your lip on it when it's in your mouth and that griz is charging!"

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

If Ireally thought there would be an enounter I'd carry my shotgun with slugs or 00 mag. on a sling. I know I could place a much better shot with the shotgun.

I will probably take a .44 mag and spray.

Don't forget there will be 3 of us.

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

This might be a dumb question... but why not bring along a bear-banger? You know.. loud noise.. scare him off?

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

I live in MT and it's definitely worth carrying a sidearm! You can use that .45 if you want, but keep pumpin' lead into Mr. Bear until he quits moving!

P.S. Watch out for mountain lions!

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

One of my friends went grizzly hunting and wanted to know the same question about his 45. The guide told him ya sure butfile down the front sight before you send it. When he asked why file the front sight theguide said because when that grizzly sticks that 45 up your a@#, it will come out a lot easier.... I would go with .454 or 500 as mentioned.

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

I don't know dude..
Odds are leaning toward me telling you to bring a side arm if ya want but really really practice with it..
And not just at targets standing still, bears move, and move fast,you'll be lucky to get one shot off before his on top shreeding your face and grinding his teeth right through your skull.
Forget the pepper spary, most likely it ain't gonna work, thebear has to be within feet before it really really works to be effective, and in reality,by that time you've either emptied the can when he was still fifty yards away,, or dropped it and are running the other direction..and if the winds blowing towards ya, which it will be cause I'm sure your smart that way, that spray will be in your eyes,mouth and nosein seconds..
Honestly my best suggestion be bear aware, they leave lots of sign, and the big ones leave lots and lots of sign, the ones you have to be aware of the most, are the subordinate males these are the ones that are constantly pushed out of territories that are plenishable with food and are the ones that are hungry and are more likely to attack kill and eat humans.....
Next would be males protectling there kills, and lastly females and cubs...
If ya smell a god awful stenchstay away, if ya happen to shoot an elk in late afternoon, and are forced to leave it over night, glass that area well before approaching your kill again the next morn for any indication that a bear is near..
The good news though, bears tend to be out in late afternoon roaming for food, while the best time for elk hunting is first light so chances are you'll see em in the distance but there is a very good chance you won't see em within a 200yrds range.......
They tend to be more of a nuisance than a threat by that I mean if ya keep your food stinky clothing, and carcasees well away from your camp and high up in the air,you'll be o.k.
Just be smart and enjoy yourself..

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

There was a video I saw a few months ago that showed a hunting party that was bear hunting and they came across a Sow Grizzly with a cub. She saw them and charged. It was kinda difficult to tell how far away she was but if I had to guess, she was probably 50-75 yards away. She charged the men and covered all but 5 of those yards in just a few seconds. They ended up killing her within spitting disiance of where they were.

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

Grizzly = shotgun/slugs, if the law permitted me to carry while bowhunting, glad we don't have to worry about them here in California & Arizona. We can't carry a sidearm or any arm here when hunting with a bow, in California or Arizona.
Pepper spraywould be alright for black bears...I would not be brave enough to try it on a grizzly.

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

A 44 mag has about the same energy as a 30-30. I think I would like a little bigger medicine when hunting griz, especially mad griz. That 500 Alaskan sounds like it might have the punch. A .450 guide gun would work too, but not so good as backup for a bow hunter. That little .22 short pistol might be the real answer...

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

My son in Alaska tells me that most of the residents up there favor the 12 gauge "Defender" type shotgun over any of the handguns. However, he also tells me that alot of folks favor a handgun because they know they will carry it ALL OF THETIME and not leave it sitting in camp after the first few days afield. In terms of handgun caliber, he says just as many of them carry a Ruger Blackhawk in 45LC with +P loads as those that carry the 44Mag or something bigger. His recommendation to me when I came up to fish with him was to buy the biggest, badest, handgun that I knew I could and would practice with, alot. As he put it, a 454 Causull or 480 Ruger Alaskan isn't being overgunned with a griz,but any gun will get you killed if you can't hit him where it does the most good. That being said, I test fired a few of my freinds big handguns and decided upon the Blackhawk in 45LC with a good user friendly shoulder holster. I regularly shoot it with lighter loads because I enjoy it. That makes me extremely familiar and proficient with the firearm & the holster I have. But for the two months before I go to Alaska, I put in a weekly season at the range with the super hot "Bear Loads" for it. (O'Course, it makes me slightly more comfortable because I usually fish within eyesight of my boy who just happens to have his 12 gauge slung over his back 100% of the time.) (Also note, when I'm in camp up there, I am always wearing that pistol. When I go to the outhouse, or walk down to the creek to get a bucket of water, I borrow my Son's 12 gauge.)

Regards, & Good Huntin',
LlindeX

RE: Side arm vs. Grizzley
 

All that being said can you imagine walking around there back in the day when all you had was a muzzleloader.