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why not show the kill shot???
I was just watching an african safari where the took several animals antelope warthog etc. when they took the shot at the animal they either blurred the animal or showed the shooter then you see the dead animal.
this seems to be happening alot. you see less and less of the bullet/arrow hitting the animal. i dont quite understand the reasoning behind this are they trying to make hunting less bloody less violent or what?? if you shoot an animal its going to be bloody and messy if you hit it perfect. the worse the shot the bigger the mess and the more violent and less humain the kill. so i say show how to make the perfect shot show how the animal reacts show the blood and alot of it. Its part of hunting and you cant make it go away. if i watched these hunting shows and decided to go out hunting and shot a deer i wouldnt know what to do after i pulled the trigger. give me your opinion show it/dont show it and why?? thanks in adv. |
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RE: why not show the kill shot???
I think it's so the "Animal Rights Activists" won't obtain more ammo to attack us. It's like when on some of these hunting showes, they say they harvested a certian game animal. If I killed an animal I don't candy-coat it, I say I killed the animal, and am very proud to have done so. Good luck.
Edited by - handloader1 on 01/28/2003 23:58:41 |
RE: why not show the kill shot???
I guess the bottom line is that some people are upset by killing and it really isn't necessary to show it on tv. Some people don't like thier children watching things like that, not just the anti's .You and I as a hunter understand ,but not everyone hunts and some could be upset by it. We don't need more anti's ,we already have enough .JMHO Halcon
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RE: why not show the kill shot???
Think of this:
A mother and child that up to now are not anti hunting, but not all for it are channel surfing looking for something good to watch. They come across an image of a deer peacfully grazing along a trail. Then the arrow hits it with all the blood guts and gore that goes with it as the animal runs off with the arrow dangling from it's side. Then the deer with blood comming from it's mouth laying on the ground. The hunter steps in laughing and celebrating, straddling the deer whipping it's head up by the antlers. Talking about how his Patriot (or whatever) bow made all the difference What is this person's view of hunting going to be after that? Not very good for folk "sitting on the fence" of animal rights. I personaly like to see everything. But there is no need for it on normal tv. They should however put it on the videos IMOP. "Hey ya'll, watch this" |
RE: why not show the kill shot???
I also would like to see what happens when the shot is taken but I think Halcon & Kodiakhuntmaster summed it up.
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RE: why not show the kill shot???
I was watching that last night too! It was on "northwest hunter" or something like that. Thye were in africa and when he shot the first wildebeast and they blurred the shot out, I TURNED IT OFF AND WENT TO BED. Furthermore, I will, from now on, REFUSE to watch that show. iT IS A HUNTING CHANNEL, if you dont like it MOVE ON. I wonder how all of the NH sponsors will like it if EVERYONE quits watching or using their products because the hosts are "politically correct?" I never did really like that show anyhow, the "head man" always treated his cohost Rick, about like ole Marlin Perkins treated Jim on Mutual of Omaha!
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RE: why not show the kill shot???
halcon,kodiakhuntmaster
i understand the point you are making. however if the same mother and kid were channel surfing and turned to er. doctors or maternity ward there would be all the blood and guts of real life. these shows become more bloody each time i see them the only thing they censor in mat. ward is the mothers genitals and they dont do it all that well sometimes. If you ask if it should be censored people say it is a real life event and a beutiful thing. when i kill an animal it is real life and a beutiful thing. I belive we are sugar coating the truth and all it does is give the antis more amunition against us |
RE: why not show the kill shot???
Kodiak hits the nail right on the head. We all know what happens, why show it,its not always pretty.
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RE: why not show the kill shot???
Why sugar coat it? It is what it is. Is it wrong to kill an animal while hunting? NO, so there is no reason to hide it. I can view pornagraphy anywhere I want including cable, is hunting worse than porn?
Education is the key here, not making it mysterious. It just seems like we are trying to hide something like any other politician. Hunters should be taken at face value. Show and educate people that the kills are taken as humanely as possible and tell them the meat is saved and goes to good causes. We have nothing to hide!! If you still don't like it watch another channel. |
RE: why not show the kill shot???
OK - I think there are a number of considerations to make here. Not the least of which is man's general distaste of gore, natural or otherwise. When you go to the funeral home, the person is all laid out nice for visiting. "Geez, we know they're back there embalming him, why can't we just go back there, and see him that way?" I agree with kodiak, and some of the other guys - you know what it looks like - what are you learning by seeing that part? I do care what non-hunters think, and here's why. Some of them may be hunters themselves some day, or at least not have an opinion, one way or the other. Most of us hunters go on and on about "it's not the killing that is important" - it's the hunt, it's the stalk, it's being one with nature, it's the heritage, it's the camraderie... and so on. If we really believe that, that's what we want to show non-hunters, or new hunters. Hook them on that, and the killing, which is the most distasteful part after all, won't seem so bad. My opinion.
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RE: why not show the kill shot???
When you put something on television, you are putting it out for the whole world to see. If they want to show the kill shot on video thats ok because no one can stumble onto a kill shot on accadent when you went to the sporting goods department and picked up the hunting video and popped it into the vcr yourself.
Unless you order the channel on satalite you can't see much porno either. Women giving birth is a different thing. We've all seen that at least once in our life...the beginning of it. It's hard to argue with something that is absolutly necessary. I can't see activists protesting child birth. Most parents and schools will talk to children about this at one time or another. Not many people will turn against doctors for doing thier jobs. Alot of people will be turned off from hunting by seeing a deer run off with an arrow in thier side. Keep in mind most people think that when you shoot an animal it ought to drop right there, and if it ran it was obviously due to the laxity of the hunter. "Hey ya'll, watch this" |
RE: why not show the kill shot???
kodiakhuntmaster
you make a good points in your replies i was trying to get the point across that mat ward and er doctors was educational and entertainment for most reasons they could edit out alot of what you see but they dont the hunting videos/shows are the same educational and entertaining i just fail to see where editing the shot by blurring the animal is of any use the antis are antis because they are uneducated in the reasons someone could be so passionate about killing a cute little furry animal that never done a thing to hurt them. the sport is contraversial and going to become more so as time goes on some people will never share our passion for hunting. but i dont see how censoring it on TV is going to help. the "if you dont see it it dont happen" only works for a while then someone who works for PETA or another group is going to say "the sport is so violent they have to edit it for TV and your going to let your kids do that" my point being if you give them an inch they are going to want two and when they get two they are going to want four etc... we will never get everyone to agree censor or not to censor the shot but i am trying my best to keep it real Edited by - jjt on 01/29/2003 22:46:23 |
RE: why not show the kill shot???
just a quick thank you to all who have replied
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RE: why not show the kill shot???
You've got a point there.
I guess I'm ok with showing a kill shot so long as it's not derogatory to the animal or the sport. I've seen a few I couldn't believe they showed. I'm all for showing the way the hunt happened. I've seen too many shows (especialy turkey hunting shows) where they go hunting like you or I do, then tape the guy shooting the animal, then after that they tape the guy doing all kinds of fancy calling and using the little feathery wind indicators and range finders. Then they edit it to look like he did all those calls and things first, then got the buck or tom using all that crazy stuff. Once they tape that animal on the ground they can add anything onto that they want. "Hey ya'll, watch this" |
RE: why not show the kill shot???
I can't speak for everyone but I know in my area I cannot get the oudoor channel without ordering it. I do think you guys have some good points and I agree that it should be controlled.
I don't like the funeral home example because you are talking about something that has an extreme amount of emotion involved with the death of family and friends. You want to remeber them alive and seeing the cut up would be a horrible sight. Not the blood and guts but for the emotional level. Bottom line is I think that there is nothing wrong with it however its not for everyone. I don't know if Mom would really order the outdoor channel and then sit down with her kids and say lets see whats on. But to your point KHM I do think there are shows done with poor taste and those should be thrown out. And I don't care what aspect we are talking about dishonesty is unacceptable to me so if producers are really adding parts to hunts that didn't happen or happened after the kill then I would no longer watch that show. I watch them for the thrill of the hunt and for education. My point is just that to me it is NOT wrong to show an ethical kill shot on television. Should there be limits and rules? I say yes. |
RE: why not show the kill shot???
Right - I agree the funeral home thing was a bad example. I was trying to illustrate latent gore. How about the making of sausages and hot dogs? <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> We all know HOW they're made.. maybe we should put that picture on the wrapper - not a perfectly grilled weiner, nestled in a bun full of ketchup and relish....I was trying to counter the argument that "it's part of the process - why hide it?"
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RE: why not show the kill shot???
This is a god thread. I can see that both sides have merit. I'll offer this to think on. I was fortunate enough to grow up hunting. My father was passionate about it but he stressed clean kills. I remember once when I took a shot at a running squirrel with a 22lr. I dropped it right out of the tree. I was proud until it started squealing in pain from having a front leg shot off. I've never forgotten that sound because it made me understand why I should strive for a clean kill. I worry that because we don't show REAL death and dying that youngsters today grow up thinking it is like what they see in hollywood. My respect for game and for firearms stems from what I was taught but also from that one instance. I still love hunting but I pass up any shot I'm not sure of even on the best racks because I won't let that happen again if at all possible. This doesn't mean that I get one shot kills everytime but I strive to do so. Hunting isn't about killing, it's about a respect for game and a love of nature. I think you have to see the end to understand the importance of doing it right! JMHO
If I was a horse; they'd have shot me. Eric |
RE: why not show the kill shot???
You bring up some good points Rambler.
Muskie I see what you're trying to say but after your second example I think you might want to rethink your point of view. I wouldn't want to see a hot dog being made because it simply is not appealing to me. It just doesn't interest me and I think most people buying one feel the same way. Much like the housewife who buys steaks, she knows it was killed but watching it doesn't interest her. Hunting videos or shows are a different realm. The kill shot is part of the hunt, to not include it in the hunt is to directly hide it. If they did a documentary on hot dogs and included everything except how they were made, then I would say to myself 'what are they hiding?' The hunts interest me and the kill shot is part of the hunt. This is America and anyone who wishes not to see does not have to. I refuse to say ban hunting shows or even kill shots cause someone who doesn't want to see, might accidentally. The issue to me appears to be 'is it appropriate to show the kill shot?' and my point of view is YES. Is it something the everyone wants to see, NO. But we as hunters have nothing to hide and to not show it I think would give the impression we don't want the world to know something. As far as the antis I think JJT is right on the money. They hate hunting period and will use anything against us. If leave it out they'll just say "look they have something to hide." The best defense we have is to be ethical and honest becuase you can't change the fact that there is loss of life associated with hunting. The general public knows this and if we lose hunting we're going to lose it regardless of whether or not there are kill shots on TV. I know I respect any person and organization that says they have nothing to hide much more than ones that will only show me or tell me 'certain parts'. |
RE: why not show the kill shot???
By the way actually showing an animal being taken quickly and cleanly could dispell a lot of rumors. People have asked me how can you watch something die and suffer and I have to explain to them that usually there is no suffering involved in most cases. I tell them that ususally the animal doesn't know what hit em.
A lot of people think that the death process is a slow painful one and videos could actually help our cause with a lot of people. To not show it would only add fuel to that fire. |
RE: why not show the kill shot???
It's a classic case of damned if you do and damned if you don't! I'm prone toward the side of "discretion is the better part of valor" but....
If you are going to show the dying/killing part, then hunters on film need to be respectful of that a life has just been lost and behave acccordingly --- regardless --- of what their "rights" are. Some joy and happiness of achievement is okay at the moment of the "take down" shot but you have to be careful on film (again regardless what the hunters "rights" are). Personally, have you ever seen someone go loud and immaturely kid gleeful at a funeral? That's the closest most city folks have come to the concept of "death and dying." Almost by default, it is likely they will view the two events as somewhat similar and apply similar taboos and mores. Ever notice AFTER someone is dead and buried and there is a family dinner that, THEN the recollections, stories, laughter, and even bit of flat out rowdiness can come out and its okay. Similarly, AFTER the animal is actually dead and there has been the passage of respect and an indication that the game meat is going to be well taken care of that, THEN a bit more levity will not hurt our cause --- with modern film editing it shouldn't be hard and really a no brainer. EKM Good judgment comes from bad experience! Half of elk hunting is knowing what NOT to do! |
RE: why not show the kill shot???
ELKampMaster
You are comparing killing an animal and the death of a human in the same category. Does that really make sense. I know that in most cases that might be all the death that someone knows but are they really going to relate that to hunting and taking game to eat. I don't know why a person would be watching the outdoor channel and think like that. They must have seen mounted deer and elk in there life time and they know that you can eat there meat, so how can you classify killing an animal and the death of a human the same category. BowElkDwn |
RE: why not show the kill shot???
BowElkDown,
Probably the first observation worth making would be that this thread has even fewer "right" answers than that 30-30 thread a while ago - only the passage of 10, 20, 30, or more years and how the fate of hunting unfolds will give the final answers who was right and who was less than right. And here's the real kicker -- as with all things political, and this issue is politcial -- you can be right and still lose, and that's a tough pill to swallow as a prudent course is charted. Second, I noticed you used the terms, "classification" "category" and "comparing." These words are tools of logical analysis and normally will serve you well on these boards and you are right in your analysis of what I said. If you are talking within our group of hunters here such a disjointed, tenuous association would be illogical. However, it's important to recognize that the "target audience" we are talking about here isn't our own cadre of hunters but rather the non-hunting public. The majority of the non-hunting public reside in metropolitain areas and haven't experienced farm or hunting "facts of life." Most of these fine folks eat Big Macs, but if you were to take them on a 20 minute tour of the "kill floor" of their local "large volume" slaughter house many would return home guilt ridden with "Auchwitz Syndrome" even though DOWN DEEP THEY KNEW that Big Macs didn't grow on a vine! They chose not to come to grips with the realities of it even though it was right in front of their face (Billions and Billions served!) So it isn't all logic on this one, a big part is just plain, warped, illogical human nature and "arguing them straight" is unlikely to succeed. Kind of like swimming upstream against a current - it's hard to make head way. Which brings us around to....... Third, the more we can "bring it around" (hunting death) to a presentation that runs parallel to something they are familiar with (human death) then the more easily they will accept it, not by logic but by human nature (swimming downstream with the current). And now to quote Forest Gump -- "That's about all I have to say about that." On a totally seperate note: You and your dad are a long ways apart in distance. Don't let the next two decades deny you your time together, keep it rich, enjoy time together, don't let yourself get taken away. Life tends to put some ugly things on your plate before you exit your forties and make you wish for things done different. EKM Good judgment comes from bad experience! Half of elk hunting is knowing what NOT to do! |
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RE: why not show the kill shot???
Yes, The people we are talking about are non hunters that maybe were channel surfing, or just by some chance came to see a passing show on the outdoor channel, then forming an opinion of all hunting and hunters based on that.
Elkamp is right, most people who don't hunt equate any death with the only death they have seen which is human death. Otherwise anti hunters wouldn't be spewing insults like calling hunters "murderers" and "killers". They compair the life of an animal simmilar to that of a human life. And your right that it doesn't make sence. But thats the way it is. Just like people associating "gun controll" with "crime controll". "Hey ya'll, watch this" |
RE: why not show the kill shot???
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Yes, The people we are talking about are non hunters that maybe were channel surfing, or just by some chance came to see a passing show on the outdoor channel, then forming an opinion of all hunting and hunters based on that. Elkamp is right, most people who don't hunt equate any death with the only death they have seen which is human death. Otherwise anti hunters wouldn't be spewing insults like calling hunters "murderers" and "killers". They compair the life of an animal simmilar to that of a human life. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> I agree with the above 100%. But where I don't agree with you is we cannot guide all of our actions based on what if someone is "channel surfing". Like I said before people already know there is loss of life in hunting. The key here is EDUCATION. Educating the general public about the truths and the good in hunting is the only TRUE way to save the sport. Making it dark and mysterious is a mistake. |
RE: why not show the kill shot???
I'm glad they don't concentrate on the kill. The huntin' is what the sport is about. Killin' ain't what we wanna be known for. It ain't 'bout violence, its 'bout the outdoors. Now I know we got fellers on these sites thet ain't got a clue 'cept thet they wanna shoot live animals. Poor stock bred with poor stock is how we got 'em. Don't let them define a sport thet is honorable an' humane. You fellers thet wanna Oooh an' Aaah over tissue destruction an' hydrostatic shock will be the end of hunting, not the antis.
BJ |
RE: why not show the kill shot???
BJ I don't think you're seeing the point. No one is saying lets put Las Vegas lights around the kill shot. Hell we don't need instant replay and slow mo video on it, come on. But today we take out the kill shot. Tomorrow we take out showing the animal at all after its dead. Then we ban the videos altogether. What are we ashamed of? We have to draw a line somewhere. This is where I choose to draw it in my mind. I'm not ashamed of taking a animal as long as its done with ethics and taste. Why hide it?
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RE: why not show the kill shot???
Cause ethics an' taste are inside you. A place ain't nobody thet buys their meat unner plastic gonna unnerstand. You say be damned with their opinion of what I do. But from a practical standpoint, you may win the battle an' lose the war. Best to get huntin' back to the earth. Yuppies respect the earth an' wood craft. Somewhar, the huntin' image got hijacked by the right wingers an' the paramilitary wackos. Not thet anythin's wrong with right wing paramilitary wackos, jus' ain't gonna win no popularity contests with yer yuppies in crime infested cities. Used to be, huntin' was about the outdoors. Now its about guns. You do the math.
BJ |
RE: why not show the kill shot???
Dont know.. where not talking about lassie here or leave it to beaver , are we?
Why gloss over parts? ya dont have to make it ALL about the death shot etc... but death is sure part of it . But i dont watch vidios etc too much. Just live life , & death is part of it. Whats a yuppie? do they have paramilatary right wing ones lol? there woodcrafters? Believe it or not when i first got to this place(Wy) i had to pinch myself a few times to rememeber i wasnt in california or org. Dont those ppl who live in those pillers of advanced civilazation called.. citys do so mostly by choice? Glad i dont join there popularity contests to...i wouldnt have a chance >:( show me a pig/deer/elk, between a bun or a steak , peice of meat , or sausage .. Just dont show me the plant , in Nj where they make im...but i try to avoid those to... many reasons lol still about the outdoors i think. I personaly think its nice when i see what some would call nothing...not a building or man for miles. |
RE: why not show the kill shot???
Ok...but i realy dont like math all that much.
Guns + outdoors = Guess it depends on whats in your heart & yer mission in life.Maybe even where ya live even?. I thought yuppies drove around in porshes & bmw.s, hummers etc &drove there plastic to be recycled & belonged to peta& pta.& no meata. BUT Also? wanted to tear down the system & cause anarcy etc? or is that yippies? maybe you mean hippies? ya dont think hunters can respect the land& know woodlore/ craft etc ? you sure some hyuppies girls in the forest didnt kidnapp you? |
RE: why not show the kill shot???
We hunters may not focus on the killing part, but people who don't hunt do. Just because it's showed briefly or ethicly by our standards doesn't mean that non hunters wouldn't still focus on it and think unhighly of it. Maybe education is what they need, but some people don't want to be educated. You can't make someone understand who doesn't want to understand.
I do think that they should show the kill shot on video. Becuase it is part of the hunt. And only hunters or outdoorsmen would be the ones to buy the videos. I'll watch a edited hunt on tv for free, but if I'm paying for it in a video I want to see the whole thing. "Hey ya'll, watch this" |
RE: why not show the kill shot???
A few years back, Ted Nudgent did a hunting video whar he showed killin' a pig an' made some stupid comments after the shot. I thort it was bad taste myownself, but you can imagine what the yippie yuppie hippies thort in NYC. I think he ended up pulling thet video off the shelf, or at least apologizin'. Mass media is fine, but I prefer my huntin' lessons from some ol' graybeard thet wears a hat. Thet's what this world needs, more graybeards with hats an' fewer books an' films.
BJ |
RE: why not show the kill shot???
Agree to disagree.
We all want basically the same thing. That is bring hunting back what it used to be. Family and friends sharing in tradition and getting closer all the while feeding thier family and those in need. Hopefully we all can make wise decisions regarding hunting and we can show those "big city sophisticated" types that life isn't all about sports cars and stock options. I think God had something else in mind and I feel much closer to Him while hunting than I ever will in any city setting. |
RE: why not show the kill shot???
Just an little bit more info I thought I'd share. I typed in "anti-hunting" in a search engine and looked at some websites. The videos these people are showing are animals being run down and attacked by dogs (deer, red stags). Others had wounded animals and were laughing about it and torturing them. In fact one websites whole theme was "hunters claim they make quick ethical kills, but these videos show the truth." My thoughts were simply that ethical kill shots are not the problem, its those who are clearly in abuse that are ruining the sport and our image.
I only thought it was interesting info, but again agree to disagree. |
RE: why not show the kill shot???
A gentleman an' a scholar. Its a priviledge to disagree with such a feller. Even an' ol' injun like me can relate to yer spiel 'bout feeling closer to God when huntin'.
BJ |
RE: why not show the kill shot???
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I was just watching an african safari where the took several animals antelope warthog etc. when they took the shot at the animal they either blurred the animal or showed the shooter then you see the dead animal. this seems to be happening alot. you see less and less of the bullet/arrow hitting the animal. i dont quite understand the reasoning behind this are they trying to make hunting less bloody less violent or what?? if you shoot an animal its going to be bloody and messy if you hit it perfect. the worse the shot the bigger the mess and the more violent and less humain the kill. so i say show how to make the perfect shot show how the animal reacts show the blood and alot of it. Its part of hunting and you cant make it go away. if i watched these hunting shows and decided to go out hunting and shot a deer i wouldnt know what to do after i pulled the trigger. give me your opinion show it/dont show it and why?? thanks in adv. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> |
RE: why not show the kill shot???
This has bugged me too. I also find it funny every once in awhile when they show a hunter make the kill, take off to go get it, and you notice that when they get there, the throat has already been cut!
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RE: why not show the kill shot???
just my opinion but i think it bothers many when it takes the animal a while to die.some have required several shots. also some of the animals lay on the ground kicking. as a hunter it still bothers me but i let it pass.nothing bothers me more than not to make a clean shot or when the animals takes a long time to die. i practice alot with hopes my shots will be clean ones.
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