RE: 30-30 for elk?
 

Captain Brad,
There is some truth in what you say. They say don't get in a pissing match with a skunk - and with that "father-son" son team (if thats what they are - I'm not sure) I sure enough did and the whole thing stunk before it was over. As I was going toe to toe with them, it was in the back of my mind that this thread isn't just between me and "them" but other folks are reading too, but things had just kinda taken on a life of their own. Sorry if the "god like" halo came out while the "discussion" raged - just competitive - I'll put it away.

Bit confused about the "share experiences" part. I think you'll find more "soul bearing" and experience sharing in my stuff than in most the thread - of course when you do that your labelled "long winded" (which is true by the way). I felt like the fire department following in the trail of an arsonist. Its easy for the arsonist to set the fires. It is harder and takes longer for the fire department to put them out and I was determined to "stomp out" each little ember.

You have accurately noted that BJ and I frequently end up on the same thread. Writing anything meaningful takes time and mental energy and one has to pick issues that are worth the effort and let the rest go. When I quickly skim the forum and see BJ's (and some others I watch for) handle on a thread I know it might be of interest and worth while - since I write long I have to at least be efficient in where I go. If you watch you'll notice we don't always end up on the same side.

The scoring system? When you can't get anyone to finish a point of discussion before they go "yapping" off to something else (the arsonist analogy) sometimes all you can do is attempt to point out that their position is essentially unsupported.

It's nice to be liked. I don't consider myself a troll, but I'm not here for a popularity contest. ESPECIALLY, when it comes to irresponsible actions that have a high probability of wasting our precious resoure - the elk - who by the way have no rights but sure deserve more than what they're getting.

Never Undergunned,
EKM

Good judgment comes from bad experience! Half of elk hunting is knowing what NOT to do!

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RE: 30-30 for elk?
 

Ok, now this is getting to be a pain. John, of course shot placement is more important than magnum power. And using a magnum rifle isn't about chest thumping oo's and ahh's from your buddies. Yes a 30-30 will work. But some people like to use equipment suited (specialized) to the game they hunt. That's what it's all about.

"Hey ya'll, watch this"

RE: 30-30 for elk?
 

Under field conditions, shot placement is over-rated. When shootin' offhand or anytime 'cept from a rest, you AIM for the middle of the kill zone presented, you don't place nuthin'. You anitcipate that yer shot will be off a lil', not perfectly PLACED. Dumb idear, this shot placement, in my book.

BJ

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RE: 30-30 for elk?
 

If the cost of ammo lies between you and practice then you won't be going elk hunting anyway as elk hunting isn't cheap even when you live in state and hunt on public land. Too much pretend elk hunting talk going on here.

Leapin' Lizards Batman - He shoots a magnum and he's accurate! What will we do now?

EKM

Good judgment comes from bad experience! Half of elk hunting is knowing what NOT to do!

Edited by - ELKampMaster on 01/27/2003 12:02:49

RE: 30-30 for elk?
 

John makes a good point, jus' in a radical sort of way. Anybody what knows me knows I support cartridges of moderation. Like goldy locks, not too small, not too big, but jus' right. The cartidges based on the '06 case are my favorites. The '06 is shootable for mos' people, changin' a lil' up or down is easy to manage and maintain skill level with modest practice. Mags are for big fellers thet practice a lot. But once you drop unner the 270, you drop outta the dependable kill level for elk, an' skill grows in importance again, but for a differnt reason. I know this is old hat fer everbody, but there's jus' so many topics, an' nobody likes talkin' bout the outdoors cause they ain't been raised there. Guns an' gadgets git re-done to death an' I'm almost numb from it. I think I'll take a break from the boards an' work on insulatin' my house an' keepin' my blood alchohol level up for the balance of the winter. Adios.

BJ

RE: 30-30 for elk?
 

This topic has gone way off course. Lets examine the facts.

Fact#1) The original post was a gentleman asking if his friend who has only hunted whitetails should come and west and shoot an elk with a 30-30.

Fact#2) There are people than can consistenty and cleanly kill an elk with a 30-30.

Fact#3) Compared to other rifles the 30-30 is a poor choice for elk.

Everyone keeps bringing up these points but most of you are not making the connection and are not seeing the point. BeaverJack is saying pretty good and so is Elkampmaster. The 30-30 WILL kill an elk and in the hands of the RIGHT individual the 30-30 can be as deadly as any weapon. But the point is when someone new is coming out west, never hunted elk before, they should be using something better suited for elk. In every aspect of life there are people who are experts with extraordinary talents but I don't want this guy finding out on MY elk whether hes good at killing em with a 30-30. The angle some of you are taking is I've killed lots of elk with a 30-30 so its ok for everyone to use one and that is not true. If you can consistantly kill an elk with a 30-30 you have above average talent. That is why it should be phased out. NO ONE who is new to hunting should be using a 30-30 on elk. Another arguement is that a 30-30 has killed more elk than anything, I'm not sure that is true or not but I do know that 30-30's have wounded more elk than any other rifle.

Shot placement is important but again I can't believe that anyone who has hunted for many years would instruct a beginner that it's "everything". These are not Texas whitetails and the terrain is comepletely different. You judge distances wrong, maybe the animal is moving or not completely broadside and angling. Maybe your in the trees shooting and misjudge the wind. My point is that you can't always count on making a perfect shot, you should have a rifle that will punch thru a shoulder blade and a 30-30 cannot do that consistantly at any range. There are those out there that are so talented that they almost never miss but this is the real world folks. The average Joe is an average shot. That means if everyone used a 30-30 on elk the rate of wounded animals would go way up.

If someone is new we should instruct him to use something more effecient. I have seen many wounded animals and its a horrible sight. Too many out of staters that have wounded animals around here and then go out and kill another cause they couldn't find the first. Every year in the mountains above my house I find a half dozen or so animals with bullet holes in them that some one couldn't find. Congratulations to those of you who have mastered the 30-30 on elk and its ok with me for you to continue using them. But I hope you are a dying breed because I don't want the INexperienced and UNtalented out here practicing on the elk herd around here. I too have seen too many animals wounded with good shot placements with lesser rifles. I have also seen it with better rifles but it is much more rare.

Respect for the game says this is the right thing to do.

RE: 30-30 for elk?
 

Thank you, rather.... reason without emotion makes for a far more logical argument. We're all passionate about this stuff, but in a technical argument/debate, it makes it hard to stay on track. As an aside, the antis must just love seeing these discussions into "who's killed more?" contests...

RE: 30-30 for elk?
 

Thanks to all for your input. I am going to ask my friend to "step up'" his rifle before joining me in Wyoming. I have the utmost respect for the shooter that is confident with stalking within range and shot placement, even if some consider the 30-30 less than ideal. I personally try to get within 200 yards or better and very much enjoy the weight , accuracy and power of my model 700 30-06, in 180 grain. Thanks again and shoot straight! C.Rob