RE: 30-30 for elk?
 

Nope, the question is "why is a 30-30 NOT a pathetic caliber for elk?" (In short, show me its good for elk.) It IS NOT about deer hunting with a 30-30, its not about black bear hunting with a 30-30. IT IS ABOUT ELK HUNTING WITH A 30-30! No extrapolating that "if it was good enough for deer" then it must be good enough for elk! By the way, what do those Georgia deer weigh? 600 lbs for a "fair" bull versus what they weigh isn't even close never mind twice the toughness!

I'm willing to bet that a "small" portion of folks making elk commentary haven't hunted elk on public ground out West, with the related hunting pressure, and skittishness of game (read longer shots), but rather are just extrapolating their deer and deer gun experience into elk country - this "ain't" Bambi popping!

You haven't lived until.... nor will you believe your eyes when.... you see someone put the perfect behind the shoulder "deer shot" on a cow elk (maybe only 450lbs) with a .270 and she turns and runs off without so much a flinch nor a limp and then after tracking her through places a man shouldn't have to go (brush and black timber) and finally catch up with her a mile and a quarter later where she lay bled out and the earth, grass, and weeds tore up by her death throws. Sobering moment, pathetic (just to re-use an adjective) moment. Glad we found her, but.... "ain't" right. (And now we are talking 30-30's?)

Add the following to my "tag line" -- "Not using enough gun is one of those things NOT to do."

EKM

Good judgment comes from bad experience! Half of elk hunting is knowing what NOT to do!

Edited by - ELKampMaster on 01/24/2003 02:32:36

RE: 30-30 for elk?
 

Elkamp,
You have changed my mind about elk hunting with a 30-30. Looking back, picturing that bull at 50 yards, I would feel undergunned with a 30-30. I can't think of one reason to take a 30-30 elk hunting if there are any other rifles to be had. There are just too many other options I can think of that are more suited for elk.

crobride, I'm not above adimitting when I am wrong. Please excuse my previous posts.
If I were you, I would tell your friend that elk are not deer. And it would best to use another gun than to use a 30-30 and possibly ruin a great hunt. Good luck.

"Hey ya'll, watch this"

Edited by - Kodiakhuntmaster on 01/24/2003 03:46:01

RE: 30-30 for elk?
 

ELKampMaster First of all I want to say I respect & congratulate you on the fact that you strive for quick humane kills. Your choice of weapon that you choose to accomplish this is just that your choice, not the standard everyone must follow. But in response to your question, not at any time did I make mention that the 30/30 would be the caliber of my choice to hunt elk. Not only that I did not recommend it to Crobide either, all you have to do is go back and read my 3 previous posts, you'll find I told him he would be better off with a larger caliber such as the 30/06 that he himself was using. Did I recommend the 30/30 , NO. Would it be my choice of weapon,NO. Is it a pathetic weapon NO. I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth that I never said. As far as first hand experience in killing elk I have as much as anyone on this site. Including you. I've seen elk taken with 30/30, 243, 270, 30/06, 7mm, 300mag and others. All elk were equally as dead with each caliber. I also bowhunt and have either taken or personally called in many elk that have fallen prey from 40lb bows to 90lb bows. Am I recommending ones to hunt with 40or50lb bows NO. But just the same it will kill them, BUT YOUR RANGE IS LIMITED JUST AS IS THE 30/30. This was my original comment about the 30/30 it will work but I would use something bigger. elknut1.

www.elknut.com
Bugling Bulls & Beyond!

RE: 30-30 for elk?
 

I wanted to comment on some of the things a few have said. There are a few people out there that probably could out shoot anyone with their old 30-30 but that is definitely the exception. For gods sake what are you people thinking encouraging some guy from back east, or at least not from elk country, to come out here and start shooting our elk with a damn 30-30? Give me a break. This guy doesn't know a thing about elk, leave the 30-30 at home and respect the animal!!! A 30-30 will kill an elk but your chances of wounding an animal are extremely high compared to other rifles and this guy is a greenhorn. Don't even bring up the bow, ain't gotta thing to do with this discussion. They kill in a different manner than a bullet. A bullet is the size of a thumbnail and its gotta be traveling a helleva lot faster than an arrow and the 30-30 is like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

RE: 30-30 for elk?
 

Elkcampmaster, about your 270 and cow elk shot, ive seen and heard of that happening with the 30 cal rifles to and ive also seen first hand and heard of many people having 1 shot kills with the 270. Every animal dies differently. There all not going to just lay down when shot behind the front shoulder with any caliber. Im a 270 shooter, killed a big 7x8 with one shot. My cousin shot a spike elk this year with his 7 mag, it bucked a little and took off with the herd and a guy above him ended up getting it. So was the 7 mag to small or was a big 30 cal magnum needed.

RE: 30-30 for elk?
 

A hunting rifle is a tool, not a WEAPON. Weapon implies combat or violent intent. Neither of which applies to hunting. 30-30s are hunting rifles, not WEAPONS - except in the hands of criminals, in whose hands cooking utilsels and sporting equipment can also be weapons.

BJ

RE: 30-30 for elk?
 

Elknut1,

Thanks for the first line, it’s the sign of a level head that can give the other side some credit. Reading between your lines it appears to me that we’re closer to being on the same side of this issue than we are apart – just that little “pathetic” word, just perhaps different opinions as to how expressive one is allowed to be……

Everyone was freely expressing their opinions … some politically correct (wouldn’t want anyone to feel bad about their gun) … some wishy-washy (well, you could use a 30-30, but, but, but) … some very direct with no room for misinterpretation (No, Bad, Don’t)…. [Some folks take this stuff at face value and “go out and do it” – Oh man, what a wreck, that wasn’t such a good idea – Well they didn’t say I couldn’t/shouldn’t do it – I thought I had some leeway if I was careful……but, then….]

And then things got a little personal (maybe tender ego on my part),

You took off the gauntlet, slap-slap, and dropped it at my feet……..
“ElkampMaster I usually don't make comments like this but in this case I for one have to say something. I think the comment you made about the 30/30 was pathetic at best.” (then, moved on to my camp mates…) (then.... ABSOLUTLEY RIDICULOUS)

I picked that gauntlet up, and the introspection continues,....so,

Quote: “…. Not at any time did I make mention that the 30/30 would be the caliber of my choice to hunt elk.” Okay then why, specifically, on point, no dodging here, was my put down of the 30/30 (if accurate) pathetic? Because I was blunt and put it in terms that left no doubt in anyone’s mind as to my recommendation?

Quote: “…. Is it a pathetic weapon NO.” You’re dodging (even though it may not have been intended), it may indeed be a good weapon for something, not the same – steered off course a bit. The issue at hand is “Is or is not a 30-30 a pathetic caliber FOR ELK?” So far I haven’t heard a single first hand "still using the 30-30 on elk" validation of using it to ethically hunt elk (except for the one tied to the tree).

“…..All elk were equally as dead with each caliber.” I’m not sure where that proves anything. I don’t expect to find a live elk hanging in your camp or mine. Like BJ said, “Killin' an' elk and finding a kilt elk are two differnt things.” It’s the ones that get away only to die a slow death that we’re concerned about here. Not only do we have the tragedy of the lost animal – then the same hunter goes on to look for his next victim.

Let’s see if I can “sugar coat” my position to make it a bit more palatable.

30-30 has to be a coyote’s favorite rifle, you’re not likely to shoot the coyote with it and it provides the coyote with plenty of intact elk carcasses that hunters never find. There, I sized up my opinion of a 30-30 without calling it a pathetic elk cartridge. Hopefully that will be a little more politically correct and won’t make folks feel bad about a 30-30 they have that may indeed be good for some things and definitely not good for others.

EKM


Good judgment comes from bad experience! Half of elk hunting is knowing what NOT to do!

RE: 30-30 for elk?
 

Here's my .02. First elk I got I shot with a .270 using 140
grain bullets. Elk walked off and dropped dead within 40 yds.
The 2nd one I put 7 bullets into it before it dropped. I high
fived the guide gave him my gun and headed to where we had
tied the mules to get my camera. I'm halfway to the mules
and I hear him start shooting. When I get back he asks me
if I had any more bullets because the elk had got up and
ran off. We caught up to the elk and I had to put another
bullet into it before it died. When we skinned it, we saw
numerous shots right in the vitals. Go figure 1 bull drops
and the other takes a whole lot of killing. I bought a .338
the next year. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: 30-30 for elk?
 

kirkl,
We pretty well covered that one in the &quot;is a 270 an elk whacker?&quot; thread a couple months ago. I went back and found that one and bumped it to the top for those that are interested in that discussion.

With that said, I'm doubting if many people would put a 30-30 and a 270 in the same class.

EKM


Good judgment comes from bad experience! Half of elk hunting is knowing what NOT to do!

RE: 30-30 for elk?
 

stickerpt,
You and I have both seen it - it hard to believe even when you are a first hand witness! Of course then it's too late, wounded elk on the move, the only question is how far is it going to go and how lucky are you going to be in your tracking! I'm betting all other things equal: the lighter the round the further it will go and the heavier the round the shorter the distance.

Good choice on the 338Mag, can't have too much of that any angle/bone crushing &quot;slap down&quot; power!

EKM

Good judgment comes from bad experience! Half of elk hunting is knowing what NOT to do!