What does it take to hunt out West?
10-11-2007, 07:42 AM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,358
RE: What does it take to hunt out West?
Ok, now that you've given more information I will toss more out.
I have been on 3 Idaho elk archery hunts with the same outfitter. This outfitter, for archery, runs only out of his lodge which means you sleep in VERY comfortable beds, eat a GREAT meal at mid-day, get breakfast and soup style dinner. You even have time to grab a short nap after lunch before heading out in the afternoon. Altitude is not really a big issue since the lodge is at about 3500 feet, you go up/down a bit from there depending on your hunting spot for the day.
I will tell you this, YOU ARE NOT IN GOOD ENOUGH SHAPE!
You can't be. Two issues: air and hills. What we call hills, they laugh at. Even at 3500 feet, air makes a difference, just not nearly as noticable as 10000 feet.
A "typical" day for my wife and I out there, was:
- up around 4, to eat breakfast
- head out well before light to drive, then ATV, then hike miles into the woods to get away from roads and people.
- Hike, spot/stalk and call for 4-6 miles
- reverse the atv/drive route back to the lodge for a GREAT meal.
- Repeat for the afternoon.
- Back in for dinner around 1 to 2 hours after dark,
- Drop into bed
- Repeat.
You end up hiking somewhere in the 5-10 mile range doing this. they have stands you can sit in, they actually suggest it especially early in the season or if the elk aren't talking.
someone mentioned the "day 3 break". My wife made it to 5, I hunted every day, but at the end of 5 my legs where really screaming for a break. Wife slept in on morning 5 (or 6 not sure) and it did wonders for her.
first off we are in shape. I work out 5 times a week either weights, stair machine or treadmill (40 minutes at a time) and I ref soccer games on weekends which results in another 5+ miles jogged, often times multiple times in a weekend. It's different out there!
Couple things about the "hiking":
- there are only two directions: up and down, flat doesn't exist.
- up/down out there mean totally different things than here. We have flat out here, not up/down
- You think the air doens't matter, til you suddenly have to run to get in position and keep up wiht the guide who lives out there. then you REALLY notice it.
these where elk hunts, with a bow. Deer/antelope will be different, but I've never been on them.
For costs, again for elk, take the outfitter cost and add in licenses, car rental, hotel (if needed before/after the hunt), airlines and butchering (if you are so lucky!). It adds up. Our outfitter for a 7 day archery hunt was a bit under $4K each, for licenses I sent out a check to cover two non-resident license, two elk tags and one deer tag. Cost was about $1400.
It ain't cheap, but using the outfitter gets you his knowledge and equipment. I was lucky enough on trip 2 to take a bull, not even a real big one, a 4x5. When I walked up to it on the ground first thing I thought was "oh my god is this thing big". WAY different than dealing with a whitetail. The outfitter and I had a hard time rolling him over, never mind dragging him (we tried that and couldn't move him).
It costs, but for a first time, I feel is well worth it.
the weather, oh ya. When we got up in the AM it was somewhere between 24-50 degrees. During mid-day around 60-65, then cooled down in the PM. Hiking I was comfortable with two short sleeve shirts and a long sleeve shirt, and long underwear top/bottom. In stands, I put on a sweat shirt. We where there last week of September.
It's a BLAST!
I have been on 3 Idaho elk archery hunts with the same outfitter. This outfitter, for archery, runs only out of his lodge which means you sleep in VERY comfortable beds, eat a GREAT meal at mid-day, get breakfast and soup style dinner. You even have time to grab a short nap after lunch before heading out in the afternoon. Altitude is not really a big issue since the lodge is at about 3500 feet, you go up/down a bit from there depending on your hunting spot for the day.
I will tell you this, YOU ARE NOT IN GOOD ENOUGH SHAPE!
You can't be. Two issues: air and hills. What we call hills, they laugh at. Even at 3500 feet, air makes a difference, just not nearly as noticable as 10000 feet.
A "typical" day for my wife and I out there, was:
- up around 4, to eat breakfast
- head out well before light to drive, then ATV, then hike miles into the woods to get away from roads and people.
- Hike, spot/stalk and call for 4-6 miles
- reverse the atv/drive route back to the lodge for a GREAT meal.
- Repeat for the afternoon.
- Back in for dinner around 1 to 2 hours after dark,
- Drop into bed
- Repeat.
You end up hiking somewhere in the 5-10 mile range doing this. they have stands you can sit in, they actually suggest it especially early in the season or if the elk aren't talking.
someone mentioned the "day 3 break". My wife made it to 5, I hunted every day, but at the end of 5 my legs where really screaming for a break. Wife slept in on morning 5 (or 6 not sure) and it did wonders for her.
first off we are in shape. I work out 5 times a week either weights, stair machine or treadmill (40 minutes at a time) and I ref soccer games on weekends which results in another 5+ miles jogged, often times multiple times in a weekend. It's different out there!
Couple things about the "hiking":
- there are only two directions: up and down, flat doesn't exist.
- up/down out there mean totally different things than here. We have flat out here, not up/down
- You think the air doens't matter, til you suddenly have to run to get in position and keep up wiht the guide who lives out there. then you REALLY notice it.
these where elk hunts, with a bow. Deer/antelope will be different, but I've never been on them.
For costs, again for elk, take the outfitter cost and add in licenses, car rental, hotel (if needed before/after the hunt), airlines and butchering (if you are so lucky!). It adds up. Our outfitter for a 7 day archery hunt was a bit under $4K each, for licenses I sent out a check to cover two non-resident license, two elk tags and one deer tag. Cost was about $1400.
It ain't cheap, but using the outfitter gets you his knowledge and equipment. I was lucky enough on trip 2 to take a bull, not even a real big one, a 4x5. When I walked up to it on the ground first thing I thought was "oh my god is this thing big". WAY different than dealing with a whitetail. The outfitter and I had a hard time rolling him over, never mind dragging him (we tried that and couldn't move him).
It costs, but for a first time, I feel is well worth it.
the weather, oh ya. When we got up in the AM it was somewhere between 24-50 degrees. During mid-day around 60-65, then cooled down in the PM. Hiking I was comfortable with two short sleeve shirts and a long sleeve shirt, and long underwear top/bottom. In stands, I put on a sweat shirt. We where there last week of September.
It's a BLAST!
10-11-2007, 07:46 AM
#12
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,429
RE: What does it take to hunt out West?
ORIGINAL: bald9eagle
What Ihad initiallyenvisioned is lodging at a base camp, taking the pack horses up to a spike camp, and hunting out from there (your typical type trip). I guess what I should have asked (thanks for the antelope tip!) is what would be an idea, and inexpensive trip for a first timer.
What Ihad initiallyenvisioned is lodging at a base camp, taking the pack horses up to a spike camp, and hunting out from there (your typical type trip). I guess what I should have asked (thanks for the antelope tip!) is what would be an idea, and inexpensive trip for a first timer.
You should seriously consider an Antelope hunt. I can hook you up with a guide that does a terrific job. You can camp up in the hills in his wall tent and he will show up each morning in his pickup to take you and your daughter around to find a respectable goat. All of this for about $700 per person for a 3 day hunt. Trust me You can get both your antelope in 3 days. Some friends and myself took our sons out antelope hunting last year. there was 8 of us all together and in 2 days we took8 goats. The only draw back is that he doesn't have any truely big goats. The average is size is about 14 inches. We took a couple of 15's butNo records where broken. It was a very enjoyable trip and the boys loved it.
want the highest opportunity possible for my daughter, even if it's just a small spike or 3x3. This would be far from a trophy hunt.
10-11-2007, 08:50 AM
#14
Spike
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Utah
Posts: 53
RE: What does it take to hunt out West?
I'll again suggest Colorado and New Mexico. Both are the shortest drive for you.
Colorado has the largest elk herd in the lower 48 (If I remeber right) and I'm pretty sure they still have some youth tags that much easier to aquire and cheaper for a DIY hunt. I can also suggest some good guides in Idaho that are friends of mine, if you are interested in that area.
I'm sure your daughter will do fine. I took one of my daughters at 12 years old and she still remembers the thrill of seeing a 6x6 walk out of the trees at 30 yards away. But I did spend a bunch of money on her clothing/boots that she never wore again. She doesn't wear hunting boots to school and they were too small by next year. But it was more important to have her be comfortable in nasty weather and have a good experience.
Check the harvest satistics for the area you want to hunt. Here in Utah on a Spike or Open Bull elk tag the success rates are about 10-12% and the Deer tags are 30%. So there are a lot of people going home empty handed. Come with your expectation set correctly. (If you can draw a Limited Entry tag for a Mature Bull, The success rates are extremely high)
The area I hunt, I usually see 200-400 elk a day. But there are weekend whenI see none. Weather, hunting pressure and who knows what else had move the herd someplace else. Elk are very capable of moving 20-25 miles overnight. I hunted in New Mexico one year. We arrived Thursday afternoon and went scouting. We found 40-50 elk with several nice bulls with in 30 minutes of hiking from our camp. We were excited for Saturday morning. The hunt opened Saturday and during the next 5 days the four of us only saw 6 cow elk. The guides we talked to who claimed they normally had 80-90% success rate were also skunked. We heard of one elk having harvested that week. As non- residents on a DIY hunt, we were unprepared for the sudden move of the elk and didn't know where they had moved.
I think you can have a great time on a DIY hunt if you can accept that you might go home empty handed. If you come out each year, sooner or later you will be successful. For what one guided hunt cost, you could do several DIY hunts. If it's important to you to kill and elk to feel successful, then you should hire a guide.
Another option would be to get a Cow Elk tag. Much easier to buy and you will probably have a greater success in killing a cow. Especially during some of the later depredation hunts.
What it looks like in September during the Rut
What it looks like in October
Bulls crossing ridge
Camp
384 class bull
370 class bull
8 bulls enjoying th sun
Packing out the elk. I leave most of the bones on the mountain
Temperature in the truck when I got the horses unpacked and loaded in the trailer. Yep that's a -3 in late October.
Colorado has the largest elk herd in the lower 48 (If I remeber right) and I'm pretty sure they still have some youth tags that much easier to aquire and cheaper for a DIY hunt. I can also suggest some good guides in Idaho that are friends of mine, if you are interested in that area.
I'm sure your daughter will do fine. I took one of my daughters at 12 years old and she still remembers the thrill of seeing a 6x6 walk out of the trees at 30 yards away. But I did spend a bunch of money on her clothing/boots that she never wore again. She doesn't wear hunting boots to school and they were too small by next year. But it was more important to have her be comfortable in nasty weather and have a good experience.
Check the harvest satistics for the area you want to hunt. Here in Utah on a Spike or Open Bull elk tag the success rates are about 10-12% and the Deer tags are 30%. So there are a lot of people going home empty handed. Come with your expectation set correctly. (If you can draw a Limited Entry tag for a Mature Bull, The success rates are extremely high)
The area I hunt, I usually see 200-400 elk a day. But there are weekend whenI see none. Weather, hunting pressure and who knows what else had move the herd someplace else. Elk are very capable of moving 20-25 miles overnight. I hunted in New Mexico one year. We arrived Thursday afternoon and went scouting. We found 40-50 elk with several nice bulls with in 30 minutes of hiking from our camp. We were excited for Saturday morning. The hunt opened Saturday and during the next 5 days the four of us only saw 6 cow elk. The guides we talked to who claimed they normally had 80-90% success rate were also skunked. We heard of one elk having harvested that week. As non- residents on a DIY hunt, we were unprepared for the sudden move of the elk and didn't know where they had moved.
I think you can have a great time on a DIY hunt if you can accept that you might go home empty handed. If you come out each year, sooner or later you will be successful. For what one guided hunt cost, you could do several DIY hunts. If it's important to you to kill and elk to feel successful, then you should hire a guide.
Another option would be to get a Cow Elk tag. Much easier to buy and you will probably have a greater success in killing a cow. Especially during some of the later depredation hunts.
What it looks like in September during the Rut
What it looks like in October
Bulls crossing ridge
Camp
384 class bull
370 class bull
8 bulls enjoying th sun
Packing out the elk. I leave most of the bones on the mountain
Temperature in the truck when I got the horses unpacked and loaded in the trailer. Yep that's a -3 in late October.
10-11-2007, 09:42 AM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 1,401
RE: What does it take to hunt out West?
ORIGINAL: Hunter_59
One thing to consider is each state has its own requirement for hunter safety certification.
Wyoming: Wyoming statutes "(a) No person born on or after January 1, 1966, may apply for and receive any Wyoming hunting license..."
One thing to consider is each state has its own requirement for hunter safety certification.
Wyoming: Wyoming statutes "(a) No person born on or after January 1, 1966, may apply for and receive any Wyoming hunting license..."
I wonder if there is any official records of hunters saftey courses from 25 years ago?
10-11-2007, 12:22 PM
#16
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: lebanon pa USA
Posts: 652
RE: What does it take to hunt out West?
Ill chime in, as I was in your shoes 6 years ago, never hunted out west for big game. Since then Ive done 4 do it yourself hunts for elk/muledeer. Ill reenforce what alot of other posters have said here. You can jog/hike/climb here in the eastern US till your blue in the face, and still you wont be in shape for hunting out west. Its almost impossible to get yourself in shape for the amount of territory your going to cover and the alttitude. I just got back from a Montana archery elk hunt, and on the average I was walking 16+ miles a day. The altitude will get you everytime, at least for the first day. Every time Ive been to Idaho hunting and climbed up the first mountain, Ive said to myself "what the heck am I doing here" it will be just that bad due to the lack oxygen at elevation. And if your successful and have to pack an elk out OMG, this can and most likely be the hardest most difficult thing youve ever done physically. It is not for the faint of heart. Now for the up side, once you go, youll want to go again and again and again. The scenery, terrian and animals are just awe inspiring. Im a walker when it comes to hunting, and to be able to walk mile after mile without ever crossing another humans tracks is well worth the effort. If I were you, since your daughter is so young, Id seriously look into a guided hunt, or at a minumum a drop camp. The last thing you want to do is have the hunt that is so rigerous that your daughter doenst have an enjoyable hunt.
10-11-2007, 01:35 PM
#17
Typical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 612
RE: What does it take to hunt out West?
Not saying anything new, but we live out here and I pushed my oldest a bit hunting elk and he lost interest. It is a great to hunt in elk country, but is is tough beyond what most can imagine until they've done it, and you want to focus on it being a good experience for your daughter. The antelope hunt is the perfect family hunt. They are out an about all day, so if you are suffering a bit of "jet lag" its okay to sleep in a bit if you want. They tend toward open country so you can glass and spot. If a stalk doesn't work out, you glass up another one or group and try again. Don't underestimate the need for phsyical fitness there either. Some antelope areas are fairly subtle in terrain, others have some serious hills, all will impact you in terms of the altitude (at least in Wyomng). Focus on the hunt being a great experience. Make it a great hunt with dad and your daughter will always remember that hunt with fondness--animal or no animal, either way...
10-16-2007, 09:05 AM
#19
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hatton, Alabama
Posts: 520
RE: What does it take to hunt out West?
I didn't want to imply that we would have no problem with the terrain part, just wanted everyone to know that we weren't out of shape slobs who spent much more time on the computer or couch thanin the woods. I realize it would be an extremely exhausting hunt and would challange everything that we knew about our own bodies.
I really wouldn't care if we took anything or not. Being able to spend time just chasing 'em and getting to see some of the most beautiful land this country has to offer is enough for me.
Alright, let's get a little more specific.
What and where are some of the easiest tags to draw? From the sounds of it, antelope are pretty easy to come by. Is Colorado the best place to start? If so, what units?
What are the Muley opportunities like in South Dakota? The plan is to spend a couple weeks or so on a sight seeing/hunting/ vacation. I want to be flexible so that my wife and youngest daughter aren't left out. Are there any good working cattle/dude ranches that offer hunts? I know I can find a lot of that info online, but still want the comfort of knowing that I would be with a quality guide. If any of you guys know of such it would be great.
BTW, thanks for the great pics. It's stuff llike that that makes the fever all the worse.
I really wouldn't care if we took anything or not. Being able to spend time just chasing 'em and getting to see some of the most beautiful land this country has to offer is enough for me.
Alright, let's get a little more specific.
What and where are some of the easiest tags to draw? From the sounds of it, antelope are pretty easy to come by. Is Colorado the best place to start? If so, what units?
What are the Muley opportunities like in South Dakota? The plan is to spend a couple weeks or so on a sight seeing/hunting/ vacation. I want to be flexible so that my wife and youngest daughter aren't left out. Are there any good working cattle/dude ranches that offer hunts? I know I can find a lot of that info online, but still want the comfort of knowing that I would be with a quality guide. If any of you guys know of such it would be great.
BTW, thanks for the great pics. It's stuff llike that that makes the fever all the worse.
10-16-2007, 06:25 PM
#20
Spike
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Utah
Posts: 53
RE: What does it take to hunt out West?
Wyoming is an easy state to draw Antelope tags in. I'd start there.
I think Colorado still has Youth elk tags. Where youth under 18 don't pay as much and it's easier for them to get a tag. It's been a while since I hunted Colorado, So maybe I'm way wrong here.
I think Colorado still has Youth elk tags. Where youth under 18 don't pay as much and it's easier for them to get a tag. It's been a while since I hunted Colorado, So maybe I'm way wrong here.
