An Outcry for Equal Access Hunting on Federal Land in WY
10-04-2007, 11:57 AM
#11
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location:
Posts: 164
RE: An Outcry for Equal Access Hunting on Federal Land in WY
Howler there is a place on the app's for a voluntery donation to S&R.
This is the dumest law in wyo. and I'm a res. here. it is nothing more than a law the outfitters pushed thew to make non-res have to use them. A non-res can hike,fish and even hunt small game in the wilderness but not big game.
I'm sorry But I think you miss read the Data you got on populations of elk and were they summer.
To make a long story short, I paid outrageous fees, and found few elk to speak of. I hunted the best USFS land in Greys River, units west of Gros Ventre, the head of the Wind River, even the Sierra Madre and found few elk number and poor herd structure.
Only 1 of those areas is even close to being below that they want the herds to be. I'm not sure what you think the numbersshould be, but they have over 600 cow /calf tags in area 21 (west side of the Madre's) and from the 25th the till the 31th you can shot cow on a gen. lic.. you canhunt cows until the 15th of Nov in 13 and I'll bet 15 is close to that.
I agree the non-res law is bad But don't make up stories to try and fire people up.
This is the dumest law in wyo. and I'm a res. here. it is nothing more than a law the outfitters pushed thew to make non-res have to use them. A non-res can hike,fish and even hunt small game in the wilderness but not big game.
I'm sorry But I think you miss read the Data you got on populations of elk and were they summer.
To make a long story short, I paid outrageous fees, and found few elk to speak of. I hunted the best USFS land in Greys River, units west of Gros Ventre, the head of the Wind River, even the Sierra Madre and found few elk number and poor herd structure.
Only 1 of those areas is even close to being below that they want the herds to be. I'm not sure what you think the numbersshould be, but they have over 600 cow /calf tags in area 21 (west side of the Madre's) and from the 25th the till the 31th you can shot cow on a gen. lic.. you canhunt cows until the 15th of Nov in 13 and I'll bet 15 is close to that.
I agree the non-res law is bad But don't make up stories to try and fire people up.
10-04-2007, 12:02 PM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,358
RE: An Outcry for Equal Access Hunting on Federal Land in WY
I seriously doubt there is ANYTHING about hunting that is constitutional or not, ok life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
the feds, I believe, have governed the states with managing the wildlife in that state, rightfully so (well except for forcing introductions of wolves etc, endangered lists etc. ) So the state can control how the wildlife is managed.
The difference between hunting and hiking camping is the usage or pursuit of that wildlife, one does and one doesn't. That is the key difference.
Do I thikn the law is fair? Heck no, I think its a creation of the outfitters lobbying, but is it unconstitutional? doubt it.
the feds, I believe, have governed the states with managing the wildlife in that state, rightfully so (well except for forcing introductions of wolves etc, endangered lists etc. ) So the state can control how the wildlife is managed.
The difference between hunting and hiking camping is the usage or pursuit of that wildlife, one does and one doesn't. That is the key difference.
Do I thikn the law is fair? Heck no, I think its a creation of the outfitters lobbying, but is it unconstitutional? doubt it.
10-04-2007, 12:40 PM
#13
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: WYOMING
Posts: 39
RE: An Outcry for Equal Access Hunting on Federal Land in WY
I personally don't saee the problem. If I want to hunt the Wilderness I need horses (I don't have). Therefore I don't hunt there. I don't have problems getting my Elk when I go Hunting. I also don't hunt areas where the Wolves ave had an impact on the Elk herds.
If you want even access then we should build roads in the Wilderness so that ALL can go there. Also, Push for unlimited access to Yellowstone National Park. Just see how many are allowed in the winter. They also just announced they are closing the East Entrance in the winter. So now if I want to go to Yellowstone I will have to drive hours to get to the Entrance that I will be allowed, provided there is a guide (federal law) and they haven't reached the capacity allowed for that day. Yes all of this is an inconveinance and will cost me more to visit YNP, but that is what I will have to do if I wish to visit in the winter. Not many have raised concerns as it doesn't affect them personally. But in the long run it affects us all as presidence has been set.
How many states discriminate against NR Hunters. ALL, even yours.
GOOD LUCK
WYOWIRES
If you want even access then we should build roads in the Wilderness so that ALL can go there. Also, Push for unlimited access to Yellowstone National Park. Just see how many are allowed in the winter. They also just announced they are closing the East Entrance in the winter. So now if I want to go to Yellowstone I will have to drive hours to get to the Entrance that I will be allowed, provided there is a guide (federal law) and they haven't reached the capacity allowed for that day. Yes all of this is an inconveinance and will cost me more to visit YNP, but that is what I will have to do if I wish to visit in the winter. Not many have raised concerns as it doesn't affect them personally. But in the long run it affects us all as presidence has been set.
How many states discriminate against NR Hunters. ALL, even yours.
GOOD LUCK
WYOWIRES
10-04-2007, 01:48 PM
#14
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cheyoming
Posts: 870
RE: An Outcry for Equal Access Hunting on Federal Land in WY
My firswt response is; "Hunt colorado, or Montana, pr Idaho then. But that's because I live and love it here and I am a homer!
Your gripe is with the Outfitters Association when they got the G&F to agree to such a stupid regulation . . . (Non-residents can't hunt fed wilderness without a guide).
BUT! In exchange, the G&F does distinguish that "ANY RESIDENT LICENSED HUNTER HAS TEMPORARY STATIS AS AN OUTFITTER/GUIDE". You could go in with a licensed resident and be legal.
You can study every scrap of info for the rest of your life and never know where the elk are. They are not in the same placeweek to week, month to month, year to year, etc. The old timers here will tell you, "The elk are where you find them." They are not whitetails and have no similar predictabilities.
That's all just part of hunting out in the west. No 40 acre woods, no feeders, no food plots, just millions of acres of elk habitat. Hope your next hunt turns out better.
Your gripe is with the Outfitters Association when they got the G&F to agree to such a stupid regulation . . . (Non-residents can't hunt fed wilderness without a guide).
BUT! In exchange, the G&F does distinguish that "ANY RESIDENT LICENSED HUNTER HAS TEMPORARY STATIS AS AN OUTFITTER/GUIDE". You could go in with a licensed resident and be legal.
You can study every scrap of info for the rest of your life and never know where the elk are. They are not in the same placeweek to week, month to month, year to year, etc. The old timers here will tell you, "The elk are where you find them." They are not whitetails and have no similar predictabilities.
That's all just part of hunting out in the west. No 40 acre woods, no feeders, no food plots, just millions of acres of elk habitat. Hope your next hunt turns out better.
10-04-2007, 04:25 PM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: WV
Posts: 4,485
RE: An Outcry for Equal Access Hunting on Federal Land in WY
good post game4lunch.
Some "discriminatory"thread about Western Hunting arises around hereon a regular basis. Most, talk about the variance in fees between residents/nonresidents(which the initial post here mentions) and the assertion that the state really has no domain over federal land contained in its borders. These are the ones, I feel, are generally full of BS.
Non residents should NOT enjoy the same priveleges, in general,as residents. If you want preferential treatment...MOVE.
The issue about a mandatory guide service in a wilderness area, however, isdifferent. Since a mandatory guide is not required to hike/camp/fish in a wilderness area, they certainly should not be required to hunt. If anyone has a logical point why the current "guide regulation" is valid, I would like to hear it. I like the fact that WY allows a regular resident hunter to act as a "guide" in this case, but it's not quite enough.
Non resident should pay more for licensingand get less preferential treatment in terms of tags and special permits, but they should not be required to hire a guide to hunt WHEN they are not required to have one to birdwatch in the same area.
Generally I'd say that non-resident hunters would have a less likely need for rescue then non-resident birdwatchers
Some "discriminatory"thread about Western Hunting arises around hereon a regular basis. Most, talk about the variance in fees between residents/nonresidents(which the initial post here mentions) and the assertion that the state really has no domain over federal land contained in its borders. These are the ones, I feel, are generally full of BS.
Non residents should NOT enjoy the same priveleges, in general,as residents. If you want preferential treatment...MOVE.
The issue about a mandatory guide service in a wilderness area, however, isdifferent. Since a mandatory guide is not required to hike/camp/fish in a wilderness area, they certainly should not be required to hunt. If anyone has a logical point why the current "guide regulation" is valid, I would like to hear it. I like the fact that WY allows a regular resident hunter to act as a "guide" in this case, but it's not quite enough.
Non resident should pay more for licensingand get less preferential treatment in terms of tags and special permits, but they should not be required to hire a guide to hunt WHEN they are not required to have one to birdwatch in the same area.
Generally I'd say that non-resident hunters would have a less likely need for rescue then non-resident birdwatchers
10-04-2007, 08:39 PM
#16
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: WYO
Posts: 2,298
RE: An Outcry for Equal Access Hunting on Federal Land in WY
ORIGINAL: game4lunch
My firswt response is; "Hunt colorado, or Montana, pr Idaho then. But that's because I live and love it here and I am a homer!
Your gripe is with the Outfitters Association when they got the G&F to agree to such a stupid regulation . . . (Non-residents can't hunt fed wilderness without a guide).
BUT! In exchange, the G&F does distinguish that "ANY RESIDENT LICENSED HUNTER HAS TEMPORARY STATIS AS AN OUTFITTER/GUIDE". You could go in with a licensed resident and be legal.
You can study every scrap of info for the rest of your life and never know where the elk are. They are not in the same placeweek to week, month to month, year to year, etc. The old timers here will tell you, "The elk are where you find them." They are not whitetails and have no similar predictabilities.
That's all just part of hunting out in the west. No 40 acre woods, no feeders, no food plots, just millions of acres of elk habitat. Hope your next hunt turns out better.
My firswt response is; "Hunt colorado, or Montana, pr Idaho then. But that's because I live and love it here and I am a homer!
Your gripe is with the Outfitters Association when they got the G&F to agree to such a stupid regulation . . . (Non-residents can't hunt fed wilderness without a guide).
BUT! In exchange, the G&F does distinguish that "ANY RESIDENT LICENSED HUNTER HAS TEMPORARY STATIS AS AN OUTFITTER/GUIDE". You could go in with a licensed resident and be legal.
You can study every scrap of info for the rest of your life and never know where the elk are. They are not in the same placeweek to week, month to month, year to year, etc. The old timers here will tell you, "The elk are where you find them." They are not whitetails and have no similar predictabilities.
That's all just part of hunting out in the west. No 40 acre woods, no feeders, no food plots, just millions of acres of elk habitat. Hope your next hunt turns out better.
10-04-2007, 09:08 PM
#17
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NW Wyoming
Posts: 312
RE: An Outcry for Equal Access Hunting on Federal Land in WY
THis horse has been beat todust! I agree, you can come here from pennsatuckia, go to a wilderness area, fish, hike, ride horses, trap,ski, hump bull frogs, any time of the year,but you can't hunt! Totally wrong. Lawyers have challenged it, the last one, was from Florida, and he was a past Wy native and resident. He lost in court. I just don't understand it. It is totally protection for outfitters, plain and simple.
10-05-2007, 08:09 AM
#18
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,429
RE: An Outcry for Equal Access Hunting on Federal Land in WY
ORIGINAL: hillbillyhunter1
The issue about a mandatory guide service in a wilderness area, however, isdifferent. Since a mandatory guide is not required to hike/camp/fish in a wilderness area, they certainly should not be required to hunt. If anyone has a logical point why the current "guide regulation" is valid, I would like to hear it. I like the fact that WY allows a regular resident hunter to act as a "guide" in this case, but it's not quite enough.
Non resident should pay more for licensingand get less preferential treatment in terms of tags and special permits, but they should not be required to hire a guide to hunt WHEN they are not required to have one to birdwatch in the same area.
The issue about a mandatory guide service in a wilderness area, however, isdifferent. Since a mandatory guide is not required to hike/camp/fish in a wilderness area, they certainly should not be required to hunt. If anyone has a logical point why the current "guide regulation" is valid, I would like to hear it. I like the fact that WY allows a regular resident hunter to act as a "guide" in this case, but it's not quite enough.
Non resident should pay more for licensingand get less preferential treatment in terms of tags and special permits, but they should not be required to hire a guide to hunt WHEN they are not required to have one to birdwatch in the same area.
10-07-2007, 05:52 PM
#19
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location:
Posts: 164
RE: An Outcry for Equal Access Hunting on Federal Land in WY
I email my local legislature and was surprized he got back to me that day, He agreed it's BS and will try to change it in the 09 session. there is only a 20 day session in 08. So there may be hope.
10-07-2007, 06:12 PM
#20
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 365
RE: An Outcry for Equal Access Hunting on Federal Land in WY
Stick bow - All I can tell you is to contact your federal delegates in Washington. Also there was a member of Congress that wanted to reduce license fees for non-residents on federal land, I bet he would like to hear about this.
I don't remember who was talking earlier in the thread about the right of the federal government to own land in the states, yes it might not be in the Constitution but I'm glad the feds have it. Might be our nation's greatest resource!!!
I don't remember who was talking earlier in the thread about the right of the federal government to own land in the states, yes it might not be in the Constitution but I'm glad the feds have it. Might be our nation's greatest resource!!!