Why pay alot for an Outfitter?
 

I dont know why everyone pays so much for an outfitter when there is so many hunters that are willing to help other hunters out. I live in Montana and the hunting for elk, mule deer and whitetails, and antelope. I would love to sgow people where to hunt and how to get them. I have a few spotted that i keep to myself but i have tons of land that i would show you where the elk are and how to hunt them. I take off all of hunting season and have more time to help. I just this it is bull to pay 4000 for a 7 day elk hunt. If you are interested in the 2003 hunting season in Montana email me, i would love to help. I have some hunting spots with the big bulls also. I sometime have extra room in my camp, unless you are not a nice person. Anyway email me if you want to hunt elk and not pay hugh prices.WHy do i concider doing this, because maybe one day i will get the favor returned. Deadline is March 15 so you must act soon. Email me at [email protected]
Happy hunting to you all, Will
I have alot better bow hunting spots if you are looking for the big bulls.No as many bulls with a gun.

RE: Why pay alot for an Outfitter?
 

Elksniper: Couple questions for ya. Are you swamped with emails yet? Do you have a link to your DNR(?) for season dates? Any Shiras out your way?<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> How are the odds?

RE: Why pay alot for an Outfitter?
 

RE: Why pay alot for an Outfitter?
 

Been my experience thet the fellers thet can afford an outfitter need one. An Outfitter can provide a comfortable camp in good elk country with tame stock and expert guiding and game care. Just planning a pack in elk camp is a full time job. In Wyoming a non-resident is required to hire an outfitter or have a resident guide take him out. Thet's a good enuff reason alone. Add that to the fact that some fellers thet wanna hunt elk cain't crap in the woods 'thout gettin' their Cabelas gaters messed up, an' its plain to see thet the outfitter has an impotent role, even if its jus' keepin' the Search and Rescue guys off overtime.

BJ

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RE: Why pay alot for an Outfitter?
 

Beaver: I know you are tooting your own horn as a guide, which is ok, but to be totally accurate, I don't think the only way a non-resident can hunt in Wyoming is with a guide. As I understand it, they only need to hire a guide to hunt in wilderness areas. Public or private land that is not wilderness can be hunted without a guide. I have a friend from Montana hunts for mule deer in Wyoming every year without a guide. Correct?

Edited by - txhunter58 on 01/06/2003 20:28:24

RE: Why pay alot for an Outfitter?
 

BJ, your WY law is totaly ludicrious! And no you DONT need an outfitter to hunt your state! I did it for almost a hole month last month. What a shame hunting in Wy has become though!

I cant wait for the day Ak goes to ALL Draw for non residents due to states like Wy's scandaling fish and game regs! What a waste of what could be a great state and I am glad there is 49 other states as my last dollar was spent there last fall!

RE: Why pay alot for an Outfitter?
 

True, you can hunt some country 'thout a guide. Don't know why anyone would bother comin' all that way to fight with ATVs, barkin' dogs, an' trailer camps, but its possible. Outfitters get you deeper safely where you can expect more than 25% success rates on spooked animals. Outfitters provide a wilderness experience along with better odds of taking a good animal. The feller I worked for last year had an' off year, and we still filled out 85% of the clients. Now compare that to overall success rates. 25% in Wyoming last I heard. 17% in Utah. An' I ain't guidin' no more, so what I say is cause I believe it, not cause I'm tootin' anythin'!

BJ

RE: Why pay alot for an Outfitter?
 

In order to hunt some species or some areas the law requires you to have a guide.If you want to hunt that species or area you must therefore hire an outfitter.

RE: Why pay alot for an Outfitter?
 

The required guide thing is a great way for the local Guide and outfitters associations to featherbed some clients. These rules have always frosted me a bit.

Case in point I was a pilot in Ak for about 5 years and have brought hunters in and out of some of the roughest most remote country in the state as well as hunted some of it my self. I am no longer a resident so I need to pay some guide $10,000 to go hunt a sheep, goat, or brown bear. But some guy who moved up to Los Anchorage last year from brooklyn and has never hunted a day in his life is qualified to go hunt the Brooks range for Sheep?? And not me??? I don't get it.

The same goes for Wyoming I don't need no stinking guide to hunt a wilderness area in any darn state. It's bunch of BS. If they are really concerned about my safety then why don't they just give me a 25 question wilderness area hunting and survival test and send me on my way.And if hunter numbers are to high then institute a more restrictive lottery.But there is no way to logically defend the required guide laws.

Edited by - surestrike on 01/07/2003 22:42:21

Edited by - surestrike on 01/07/2003 22:45:56

RE: Why pay alot for an Outfitter?
 

Will, that's awesome of you to offer that, and I hope you have as much luck taking people hunting as I have had. I've met some great people, several last year alone, by going hunting with people that I met over the internet. A few guys came up to Alaska on a bou hunt and we had a great time, we shot 7 bou in one day! A couple months later I went on an elk hunt in Montana with two guys off the boards here. Robert Scott was kind enough to invite Don K and I down to share his elk camp in western montana. We had a great time, too many laughs, and made great friendships along the way. Both of them are invited to chase bou on the tundra any time they can get up here to do so.

The guys I took bou hunting this summer are taking me on an elk hunt in Oregon in Sept. They really look forward to getting me out in their country, and the pressure is on. All of them tagged out with great bulls, so they feel they need to return the favor.

I also met a member of the board from hawaii and went deer and goat hunting with him on Molokai. I took the wife down on vacation and while she relaxed on the beach, I sweated my butt off in the mountains chasing spanish goats. We had a great time, and once again got skunked, but those trips with new folks proved to be some of the most memorable.

Good luck with your upcoming season!
ArcticBowMan's Hunting Photo's

RE: Why pay alot for an Outfitter?
 

Problem is Beaver, I can only afford a guided hunt about every 10 years. And your 25% success rate includes all residents in the mix. I would be curious what the nonresident success rate is. I have only been hunting in Wyoming once and it was a guided hunt out of Cody, Wyoming. Both my brother and I got a deer (all we had a tag for) and I would recomend the experience to anyone who can afford it. And I don't think for the most part that outfitters charge to much.

However, I have a strong desire to pursue either deer or elk yearly in some western state, and I can't afford a guide every year. I usually do swap hunts. It is a shame I can't swap with anyone in Wyoming who hunts in a wilderness area unless they have an outfitters license. If I were in your shoes, I would probably feel differently.

My friend that hunts for deer in Wyoming every year runs about 70% success rate in his group. It really boils down to doing your homework and legwork. For those of us who do, we will always beat that 25%.

RE: Why pay alot for an Outfitter?
 

I agree that the 25% success rate is with all the idiots, the lazy hunters, and the wannabe's mixed in. Oh and all those greenhorns too. Too bad common sense ain't to common. If you do some homework and you're not afraid to use your lungs a little bit then that rate will be a lot higher. And thats if you're hunting a area for the first time. If you find a good area it can produce for years for you. Then again all the idiots on the hill just means more for me, that is if one of them doesn't shoot me first.

RE: Why pay alot for an Outfitter?
 

I cain't argue with nuthin' rather an' Tex jus' said. Trouble is, there's a darn lot of them fellers what don't know what there gettin' into. The smart ones call an outfitter. The others, well...let's jus' say they jump right in there, safety an' success be darned. I like the test idear. Guides an outfitters gotta take a test. Why not jus' give non-residents a test an' make 'em sign a waiver. And make that contribution to Search and Rescue mandatory too. That way my EMT buddies won't have as much to complain 'bout.

BJ

RE: Why pay alot for an Outfitter?
 

Well, this topic got of on the wrong foot some how. Beaver is very right with so many thing. Here in Montana people die every year. Die. Now outfitter help keep them safe. Outfitters have the tents and the gear and the know how to help hunters, but it is very pricey. I definetly am not ever telling anyone to but come out west and try to hunt with out alot of know how. Every year we end up helping someone pack out there elk because they did think about it before they shot it and they where not able to get it out. Then there is the weather. I know this Sept. we had several hugh snow storms, and it where didnt have the tents and stoves to help us you could freeze very easy. But then there are alot of people that can come out west because they have the know how. WHat i am trying to start is frineds helping friend find places to hunt that cant afford a outfitter. Outfitter need to feed there familys too, so if you can help them i am sure it will be worth you money, but if you cant, there has to be another way right. And that is where guys like me come in.
Ok about the 25% on hunting. There are alot of variables in that. I killed a 25 inch very nice 4x4 mulie deer this year in one day, and seen 15 more that anyone in there right mines would shoot. And elk is a little harder but you still have over a 50% with a bow and better with a gun. I guess it all depends on the situation.
But think before you jump into things please. Good luck hunting all.

RE: Why pay alot for an Outfitter?
 

txhunter58, If I remember correctly any Wyo. resident can be your guide for a hunt, he doe's not have to be licensed, just has to sign that you are in his charge, usahunter

2-Gun

RE: Why pay alot for an Outfitter?
 

I like the test idea and I say every state ought to do that. I think some sort of class ought to be mandatory too. Its not just safety either thats a problem around here. Last year we had some idiot californian drop a moose with a bow and leave the gut pile right next to a popular restaurant on a ski resort. On the wasatch front hunt that borders Salt Lake City guys were dragging thier deer through peoples driveways. But the one that took the cake was a smart fella from Florida. Stopped at a checkpoint and bragged about the biggest damn deer he'd ever seen and he bagged it earlier that morning. The officer went back to check it out and he had 40' moose in the back of his pickup. Make em take a class please!!!!

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RE: Why pay alot for an Outfitter?
 

The guys that are offering to help the lesser experienced guys should receive some sort of medal. To many guys out there just don't want to share or help anymore. Reminds me of a time I was bass fishing a point when a local told me I could fish someplace else. (Not exactly how he worded it). I dropped a big waterdog on his deck from 50 feet away and moved on. I booked a hunt in Utah this year just to get a feel for what I should be looking for when I go it alone. Have hunted deer in southern CA for 30 years with good success but can't stand showing up in one of my spots to find 15-20 LA idiots that only hunt opening day camped and partying all night and then yelling to one another opening morning. I've tried to use them to my advantage and let them push the deer to me but any self respecting deer left the area when the camp started forming. I've been reluctant to show many people my best spots for fear that next year I'll show up to the above situation. If the Utah thing doesn't work out for me, I'll for sure contact one of you nice fellows next year. Also, it looks as though more states have started requiring hunter safety for the younger folks. That's good, but it doesn't seem to have helped in CA which has required hunter safety for at least 25 years. Of course I'm talking CA, never mind.

RE: Why pay alot for an Outfitter?
 

CA has produces some of my favorie hunters, and mos' of the ones I dread seein'. The tendency to under estimate the danger is pervasive. Guides is taught skills to save people's lives in spite of themselves. Tip good an' often.

BJ

RE: Why pay alot for an Outfitter?
 

Lrac - I'm new to hunting, getting myself set up for next fall. Unfortunately I live near Los Angeles. Hope I don't make the type of blunders that you've seens other LA people make. Regarding the hunter saftey course, I'm sure it helps a little. What's really needed is an intelligence test.

RE: Why pay alot for an Outfitter?
 

Cal,
BJ hit it just about right - it is sooooo easy to be in danger and not know it or at a minimum be screwing up your hunt and not know it. LA, Colorado, Wyoming, or Alaska, it don't matter where you're from, blunders aren't limited to folks from Southern California. Smarts is part of it (and always welcome) but without experience it is still way easy to get into trouble. Good training is most often handed down generation to generation, friend to friend, or sometimes even for hire! Get in with a good group of hunters or learn from an outfitter first. If you're a good student of the hunt you'll pick it up quick especially if you strike the right understanding with those you're hunting with. I prefer hunting with someone with experience and toughness (i.e willingness to spend time, work hard, and put up with discomfort) over a high IQ. Of course, all that AND smart is a plus.

There is nothing wrong with being a new hunter; however, to quote Dirty Harry, &quot;....a man's got to know his limitations.&quot; I've had greenhorns in camp who knew their station and who after one season went home light years ahead of where they started - seasoned veterans? No, but off to a good start. A basic rule: the more remote the camp the more skills that are required.
Good luck!

EKM

Good judgment comes from bad experience! Half of elk hunting is knowing what NOT to do!

Edited by - ELKampMaster on 01/20/2003 01:19:49

RE: Why pay alot for an Outfitter?
 

USA,
You are right and wrong at the same time. There are two types of guide licenses in Wyoming, a professional guide license and a resident guide license. Both are licenses with restrictions and penalties for violating the terms. A resident license entitles a person to guide TWO non-residents, but you have to apply for the license and possess a big game tag of yer own. You cannot take a dime for guiding your friends or family from out of state, and it is only good for 14 days. A professional guide must be employed by a licensed outfitter and must comply with a whole bunch of laws and terms. The test involves many safety related questions and first aid as well. Two distinct licenses, but licenses all the same. I'm guidin' two friends from the internet next year. If it works out ok, I may do it again. The bad part about guiding for money is you cain't pick your clients. That creates a lot of negative feelings and guides get burnt out quickly. The money really isn't the reason people do it. Think about it. Its not that much, and only lasts for a few weeks a year. You have to buy yer own gear, and take time off a real job to do it. What is fun about guiding is seein' dedicated outdoorsmen have the time of their lives. Despite all my talk about PAMBs, I really enjoy helping a guy get that once-in-a-life trophy. The problem is that workin' class fellers raisin' a family cain't afford a guided elk hunt, an they're the ones that get the most outta it. Its a lot of trouble organizing a elk camp for guests, but I think resident hunters on these boards outta try it, jus' to give deservin' sportsmen with families a chance. You cain't explain some things, they're best left for people to know first hand.

BJ

RE: Why pay alot for an Outfitter?
 

If the Wyoming wilderness is so filled with danger that
non residents arent aware of, why do they not need a
guide when they want to hike, camp, or fish in it?
Could this law be in effect soley to make money for
guides?

RE: Why pay alot for an Outfitter?
 

Fair enuff question fer a greenhorn to ask.
1. Fall weather is worse than summer weather. Unpredictable.
2. Horses are needed for huntin'. Only thing worse than a green hunter is a green hunter with a horse.
3. Bears are fattenin' up for winter sleep. Mos' deadly encounters occur with hunters over down game.
4. Hunters don't stay on trails. They also git lost a lot. Hikers an' fishermen git in trouble too, but at least the rescue choppers can find 'em, most the time.
5. Huntin' is strenuous. Fishin' is not. More than one person I know has had a heart attack in hunting camp.
6. Non-residents always underestimate the effects of altitude on their bodies. It can be deadly.
7. Wilderness and game laws. Lettin' folks unfamiliar with the species an' game laws loose with a firearm is askin' for trouble. Someday I'll tell you the story of a outfitter I know who lost a mule to a non-resident moose hunter.

These are a few reasons why huntin' season is more deadly than summer jaunts into the wilderness. I've helped search for hikers thet were later found dead. It ain't a walk in the park even in summertime.

BJ