Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
06-04-2007, 10:12 PM
#22
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
Why does everyone have it in their heads that you must have a cannon to put down an elk? Does it come from the magazine writers or just figure bigger has to be better? I have seen lots of elk killed with 243, 257, and 270 caliber rifles some even smaller. The 243 was my elk rifle for along time until my wife started useing it.
I am curious what kind of shots you guys that are with the big caliber crowd are taking? I am not bagging on your shooting just wondering if your shooting the hind quarters, rakeing shots , or throught the front shoulders? I will admit that if you aren't hitting the vitals the smaller calibers aren't going to kill an elk, but the big ones aren't going to either, your just wasting an awful lot of tasty meat. I saw a friend with a 300 win mag shoot a hole through an elks hind quarters that you could see daylight through. The elk went down and he killed it next shot but didn't get much meat from him either.
I read in a magazine that you should always shoot elk through the front shoulders. I thought he was crazy, with a 30 caliber rifle the bullet should exit the other side and you just ruined a half an elk. I guess that if you aren't worried about the meat or like to eat bloodshot elk than more power to you. I love to eat elk meat if you haven't guessed.
I understand if you have drawn a bull tag and have a chance at a 400 bull you don't care where you hit him as long as he goes down, but not everybody draws a bull tag every year and alot of people shoot cows. So what other purpose of shooting a cow elk is there other than eating it? So you want to waste as little meat as possible right?
I have shot my share of elk and never had one get away from me. Have made my share of bad shots too but a quick follow up shot and I was punching my tag. I am not trying to join the site and pick a fight so don't take it the wrong way. I am just trying to understand the logic behind the 30 cal minimum for elk.
I am curious what kind of shots you guys that are with the big caliber crowd are taking? I am not bagging on your shooting just wondering if your shooting the hind quarters, rakeing shots , or throught the front shoulders? I will admit that if you aren't hitting the vitals the smaller calibers aren't going to kill an elk, but the big ones aren't going to either, your just wasting an awful lot of tasty meat. I saw a friend with a 300 win mag shoot a hole through an elks hind quarters that you could see daylight through. The elk went down and he killed it next shot but didn't get much meat from him either.
I read in a magazine that you should always shoot elk through the front shoulders. I thought he was crazy, with a 30 caliber rifle the bullet should exit the other side and you just ruined a half an elk. I guess that if you aren't worried about the meat or like to eat bloodshot elk than more power to you. I love to eat elk meat if you haven't guessed.
I understand if you have drawn a bull tag and have a chance at a 400 bull you don't care where you hit him as long as he goes down, but not everybody draws a bull tag every year and alot of people shoot cows. So what other purpose of shooting a cow elk is there other than eating it? So you want to waste as little meat as possible right?
I have shot my share of elk and never had one get away from me. Have made my share of bad shots too but a quick follow up shot and I was punching my tag. I am not trying to join the site and pick a fight so don't take it the wrong way. I am just trying to understand the logic behind the 30 cal minimum for elk.
06-04-2007, 10:59 PM
#23
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 599
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
Well, since it is a blanket question and its all been covered before....
here you go....
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1006124&mpage=1
REFERENCE: 270's & Elk, 270's & Elk.... Think I'm Gonna Puke!
This Index....Since the "270 For Elk?" question is never ending and the answers end up being essentially all the same every time it comes around, I started this thread to "round up all the 270 cliches" [270Win that is] that I could in one place and give the "30-06 power and up for elk" folks an easier way to answer the never ending question "270 For Elk?". Feel free to cut and paste any of my posts into the most recent "270 For Elk?" thread so long as you feel what I wrote is appropriate as an answer or response.
================================================== =====
INDEX FOR THIS THREAD FOR:
Folks Who Like To See A Bit More Power For Elk & Are Considering Responding To "270 For Elk?" Threads:
Page 1 (Top) EKM - Why the "disconnect"? Is it even worth the bother trying to "reconnect" them?
****** Part 1: Few Have Experience With Wide Range Of Cartridges AND With Big, Big Game. Many Have Neither!
****** Part 2: Magnums Okay For Geese (Understand Just Fine), Magnums For Elk (They Don't Understand At All)!
****** Part 3: One Elk Camp's Solution After Years Of "270 Experience". (Means 30-06 plus and They're Not Alone.)
****** Part 4: Pretty Emotional Subject --- Takes A Lot Of Time To Write Up Anything Worthwhile, Most Of Your Audience Won't Want To Hear Much Of What You Say, Are You Sure You Even Want To "Discuss" It With Them?
****** Part 5: A Good Alternative To Answering That "270 For Elk?" Thread & You'll Feel Good Too....
Page 5 (Low) EKM - Magnum Shot Placement - Visualize It And Then Put It Right Thru Into The Boiler Room: Any Angle, Any Bone, Any Time!
Page 6 (Mid) SpyroAndes - Its About Being Unhindered By Your Weapon!
Page 7 (Mid) Rather Be Hunting - Dead Is Dead.... Oh, Really? Is That The Whole Story?
Page 7 (Low) BareBackJack - Jack O'Connor's 270 Was His Ultimate SHEEP Rifle! Oops!
Page 8 (Top) EKM - Making Sense Of Rifles: Varmit Rifles, Deer Rifles, Cross-over Rifles, Elk Rifles, Elk Hammers!
Page 8 (Top) EKM - The Response To "Its Not What You've Got, It's How You Use It" line.
Page 8 (Low) RatherBeHunting - Cows and Rags Don't Equal Big Bull Elk, A Bit Different Toughness Factor!
Page 9 (Low) ELKINMTCWB - 270's, You shoot'em, They Run, Someone Else Tags'em, Is That What You Want?
Page 11 (Low) EKM - Other "270 Details" That Just Kinda Don't Quite Add Up:
****** Part 1 - Why Do The “devout 270'ers” turn around and buy….. "Magnums?"
****** Part 2 - Ratchet Factor: Why, Why, Why Do "Magnum Fans" NOT Want To Go Back To The "Good Old Days," Even Though They Own 270's Left Over From The "Good Old Days"?
****** Part 3 - The Bias Factor: As Time Goes On, "Some Folks Just Can’t Handle Their "Magnums" Anymore!"
Page 12 (Mid) Jeep4x4 - Case In Point (Experience): Using Elk Hunting Shows As The Source Of One's Information!
Page 15 (Top) NVMIKE - 270's: Where There's Smoke, There Is Likely To Be Some Fire....
Page 17 (Bottom) Hunter_59 - More Where There's Smoke, There Is Likely To Be Some Fire....
Page 19 (Mid) EKM - Taylor Index and Elk Hunting: 30-06 Power and Up!
================================================== =====
here you go....
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1006124&mpage=1
REFERENCE: 270's & Elk, 270's & Elk.... Think I'm Gonna Puke!
This Index....Since the "270 For Elk?" question is never ending and the answers end up being essentially all the same every time it comes around, I started this thread to "round up all the 270 cliches" [270Win that is] that I could in one place and give the "30-06 power and up for elk" folks an easier way to answer the never ending question "270 For Elk?". Feel free to cut and paste any of my posts into the most recent "270 For Elk?" thread so long as you feel what I wrote is appropriate as an answer or response.
================================================== =====
INDEX FOR THIS THREAD FOR:
Folks Who Like To See A Bit More Power For Elk & Are Considering Responding To "270 For Elk?" Threads:
Page 1 (Top) EKM - Why the "disconnect"? Is it even worth the bother trying to "reconnect" them?
****** Part 1: Few Have Experience With Wide Range Of Cartridges AND With Big, Big Game. Many Have Neither!
****** Part 2: Magnums Okay For Geese (Understand Just Fine), Magnums For Elk (They Don't Understand At All)!
****** Part 3: One Elk Camp's Solution After Years Of "270 Experience". (Means 30-06 plus and They're Not Alone.)
****** Part 4: Pretty Emotional Subject --- Takes A Lot Of Time To Write Up Anything Worthwhile, Most Of Your Audience Won't Want To Hear Much Of What You Say, Are You Sure You Even Want To "Discuss" It With Them?
****** Part 5: A Good Alternative To Answering That "270 For Elk?" Thread & You'll Feel Good Too....
Page 5 (Low) EKM - Magnum Shot Placement - Visualize It And Then Put It Right Thru Into The Boiler Room: Any Angle, Any Bone, Any Time!
Page 6 (Mid) SpyroAndes - Its About Being Unhindered By Your Weapon!
Page 7 (Mid) Rather Be Hunting - Dead Is Dead.... Oh, Really? Is That The Whole Story?
Page 7 (Low) BareBackJack - Jack O'Connor's 270 Was His Ultimate SHEEP Rifle! Oops!
Page 8 (Top) EKM - Making Sense Of Rifles: Varmit Rifles, Deer Rifles, Cross-over Rifles, Elk Rifles, Elk Hammers!
Page 8 (Top) EKM - The Response To "Its Not What You've Got, It's How You Use It" line.
Page 8 (Low) RatherBeHunting - Cows and Rags Don't Equal Big Bull Elk, A Bit Different Toughness Factor!
Page 9 (Low) ELKINMTCWB - 270's, You shoot'em, They Run, Someone Else Tags'em, Is That What You Want?
Page 11 (Low) EKM - Other "270 Details" That Just Kinda Don't Quite Add Up:
****** Part 1 - Why Do The “devout 270'ers” turn around and buy….. "Magnums?"
****** Part 2 - Ratchet Factor: Why, Why, Why Do "Magnum Fans" NOT Want To Go Back To The "Good Old Days," Even Though They Own 270's Left Over From The "Good Old Days"?
****** Part 3 - The Bias Factor: As Time Goes On, "Some Folks Just Can’t Handle Their "Magnums" Anymore!"
Page 12 (Mid) Jeep4x4 - Case In Point (Experience): Using Elk Hunting Shows As The Source Of One's Information!
Page 15 (Top) NVMIKE - 270's: Where There's Smoke, There Is Likely To Be Some Fire....
Page 17 (Bottom) Hunter_59 - More Where There's Smoke, There Is Likely To Be Some Fire....
Page 19 (Mid) EKM - Taylor Index and Elk Hunting: 30-06 Power and Up!
================================================== =====
06-05-2007, 03:19 AM
#24
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 4,264
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
ORIGINAL: ross220
Why does everyone have it in their heads that you must have a cannon to put down an elk? Does it come from the magazine writers or just figure bigger has to be better? I have seen lots of elk killed with 243, 257, and 270 caliber rifles some even smaller. The 243 was my elk rifle for along time until my wife started useing it.
I am curious what kind of shots you guys that are with the big caliber crowd are taking? I am not bagging on your shooting just wondering if your shooting the hind quarters, rakeing shots , or throught the front shoulders? I will admit that if you aren't hitting the vitals the smaller calibers aren't going to kill an elk, but the big ones aren't going to either, your just wasting an awful lot of tasty meat. I saw a friend with a 300 win mag shoot a hole through an elks hind quarters that you could see daylight through. The elk went down and he killed it next shot but didn't get much meat from him either.
I read in a magazine that you should always shoot elk through the front shoulders. I thought he was crazy, with a 30 caliber rifle the bullet should exit the other side and you just ruined a half an elk. I guess that if you aren't worried about the meat or like to eat bloodshot elk than more power to you. I love to eat elk meat if you haven't guessed.
I understand if you have drawn a bull tag and have a chance at a 400 bull you don't care where you hit him as long as he goes down, but not everybody draws a bull tag every year and alot of people shoot cows. So what other purpose of shooting a cow elk is there other than eating it? So you want to waste as little meat as possible right?
I have shot my share of elk and never had one get away from me. Have made my share of bad shots too but a quick follow up shot and I was punching my tag. I am not trying to join the site and pick a fight so don't take it the wrong way. I am just trying to understand the logic behind the 30 cal minimum for elk.
Why does everyone have it in their heads that you must have a cannon to put down an elk? Does it come from the magazine writers or just figure bigger has to be better? I have seen lots of elk killed with 243, 257, and 270 caliber rifles some even smaller. The 243 was my elk rifle for along time until my wife started useing it.
I am curious what kind of shots you guys that are with the big caliber crowd are taking? I am not bagging on your shooting just wondering if your shooting the hind quarters, rakeing shots , or throught the front shoulders? I will admit that if you aren't hitting the vitals the smaller calibers aren't going to kill an elk, but the big ones aren't going to either, your just wasting an awful lot of tasty meat. I saw a friend with a 300 win mag shoot a hole through an elks hind quarters that you could see daylight through. The elk went down and he killed it next shot but didn't get much meat from him either.
I read in a magazine that you should always shoot elk through the front shoulders. I thought he was crazy, with a 30 caliber rifle the bullet should exit the other side and you just ruined a half an elk. I guess that if you aren't worried about the meat or like to eat bloodshot elk than more power to you. I love to eat elk meat if you haven't guessed.
I understand if you have drawn a bull tag and have a chance at a 400 bull you don't care where you hit him as long as he goes down, but not everybody draws a bull tag every year and alot of people shoot cows. So what other purpose of shooting a cow elk is there other than eating it? So you want to waste as little meat as possible right?
I have shot my share of elk and never had one get away from me. Have made my share of bad shots too but a quick follow up shot and I was punching my tag. I am not trying to join the site and pick a fight so don't take it the wrong way. I am just trying to understand the logic behind the 30 cal minimum for elk.
Well let me ask you a question, why is it, that you .243 fanatics, intentionally find the tiniest big gamecartridge you can find, and hunt with that, as use the gun as a battle cry?
"The elk went down but he didn't get much meat from him either."
How can you not get much meat from an elk? One deer will last a long time, and take a long time to eat.And elk are like 6 times bigger.
And what's all that insanity about losing one half of an elk by shooting it in the shoulder? Yeah,it'll happen, supposingyouhave a 40mm artillery piece.
If you shootDEER in the shoulder, you don't even lose one 5th of the meat, 300 Win Mag works good on deer, and you really can't in any way say there's such a thing with standard calibers, as overkill on deer, my uncle has a friend who shot a whitetail in Nebraska using a .338 Win. Mag., and the shockwave broke it's back, but he lost little or no meat in comparision to what he would've lost if he were using a small caliber.
You're just not making any sense. Elk, and Moose, have lots of meat, and the only way you can waste meat while in the process of killing the animal is if you're using a Browining .50-cal BMG machine gun, or the .30cal machine gun, and I seriously doubt anyone will be having to worry about a "Machine Gun hunting" fad anytime in this century.
Honestly, shame on you for using a varmit rifle, and the bare minimum rifle for deer, on elk, that's just stupid, it's like this one kid who posted, and shot a Grizzly Bear with a Mini-14, that's right, a .223, are you telling me, that an adult such as yourself, was uncapable of accurately shooting a .30 cal, or at least a .270, for elk? I seriously doubt it.
It's most ethical to shoot the biggest cartridge you can, ACCURATELY.
Most people that are mature can shoot a 30-06, or at least a .308 accurately, and if recoil still bothers you, you can get a Sims Limbsaver Recoil Pad, and it works great, or, if you're shooting magnums, get a muzzlebreak, or both, and it'll work, and if your gun weighs at least 8 pounds, you're already reducing recoil.
06-05-2007, 12:43 PM
#25
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kodiak, AK
Posts: 2,877
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
ORIGINAL: eldeguello
I suspect you'd be surprised to know how much big/dangerous game whas been killed with the lowly .303 British!
I suspect you'd be surprised to know how much big/dangerous game whas been killed with the lowly .303 British!
06-05-2007, 02:14 PM
#26
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 2,414
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
I'd have to say that I disagree with you. Using a premium bullet Jabba can easily be hunted with the 243. See I think you could get the penetration into the vitals and with jabba there is very little chance of him going very far after the shot. Heck there isnt much chance of him going very far before the shot.
06-05-2007, 02:32 PM
#27
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,429
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
I've never claimed that the 270 is too light to kill an elk. I've stated quite often that "I" wouldn't carry one.
Does premium bullets change the equation? well, sort of. I wouldn't even consider a 300 magnum with inferior bullets. When talking of big game I think that the use of premium controlled expansion bullets must be a constant. Highly frangible bullets such as ballistic tips have no place other than in the varmint field.
Does a 270 loaded with 150 gr. TSX's make a better elk weapon than it would loaded with 130 gr coreloks? I think the answer is yes. Would I prefer it to my 338 win loaded with 225 gr. partitions? NO!
Will a 243 kill an elk? you bet it will. Does the average joe who drives out to colorado to elk hunt and sees a five point 300 yards off quartering away have the proxy to pass the shot because he's carrying a 243? I highly doubt it.
Take my scenario a step further: same 300 yard quartering away shot. Lets say that I take that shot and I forget to account for a cross wind and the shot drifts 4 inches to the rear into the "gut shot" region.
1.With a 243 what results can we expect? Will the bullet penetrate sufficient to take out the back of the offside lung? I doubt it
2. With a 270 and corelokts, same question? Maybe, but doubtfull.
3.with 270 and TSX's? Possible
4. with a 30-06? decent possiblity
5. With 338 win mag? I'd bet on it!
So which makes you fell better? I doubt it, Maybe,possibly, or You bet? Thats not to say that I advocate taking questionable shots, quite the opposite is true. I just like the idea of the added margin for error, when the need arises.
go ahead and flame away!
06-05-2007, 08:17 PM
#28
Fork Horn
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamiltucky, OH
Posts: 485
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
ORIGINAL: KodiakArcher
"what will get the job done PRUDENTLY". It's just not prudent to go chasing elephants with a 6.5mm or elk with a .243 for that matter.
"what will get the job done PRUDENTLY". It's just not prudent to go chasing elephants with a 6.5mm or elk with a .243 for that matter.
So either you can revel in being a true minimalist, & try to scare the life out of the biggest critter you can find using only the muzzle blast of the smallest projectileavailable. Or, you can go out & buy the biggest "What-Am-I-Compensating-For" Ultra Mag, hoping to leave flames leaping from the carcass after the slug passes through at Mach 5 on its way into a low-earth orbit.
Heaven FORBID there should be a middle ground... especially if it were "prudent"!
Sorry for the sarcasm. I've got to prep for another trip to the range with my '06...
FC
06-05-2007, 10:10 PM
#29
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
Sorry young gun, I but just can't see how I am not ethical because I have shot elk with a 243. If there is no way anyone should shoot an elk with anything less than a 30 cal. than how does one go about killing an elk with a little ol' bow and arrow? I can't figure that one. How many foot pounds does a60 lb bow make anyway.
I killed myfirst elk with a 243 when I was 13.Now I probably could have shota 300 weatherby mag at that age, but Iprobably wouldhave had a seriously bad flinching problem to get over too. Whenmy son gets old enough to hunt you can bet he will kill his first elk with a 243. That way he can learn how to shoot a gun properly withoutthinking about the recoil.After shooting his gun enough to know it's limitations and what ranges he can shoot accurately at, he can go hunting.Now teaching someone to pass up on a shot because he can't shoot that far or should wait for a better shot, that sounds like the ethics that you are speaking of.
I think shooting a smaller rifle that you can drive tacks with is no less ethical than shooting abig gunthat you don't shoot as well.
As for not being able to handle the recoil of a bigger rifle, well why don't you just say something bad about my mother while your at it. I do have a 300 H&H andhave killed some elkanddeer with it.
Maybewe just come from different places so it's hard to get where the other is coming from. When I was young I had two guns a 22lr and a handed down 243. Didn't have much other choice, so I shot that 243 at everything I could and learned how to shoot pretty well with it. Maybe that is why I think the243 can do things that you don't isI shot one for a long time and know what it can do and what it can't.I also live out in the sticks so I can go hunting all season long I don't just have a week like someone comeing from town would. Iguess that would play into thingsalso ifone didn't havealot of time to go hunting and didn't want to pass on some shots. Where I live in the same area I hunt Ican pass on a bad shot if I don't think I can get the animal killed. ( more of your ethics )
I don't know how old you are or how you grew up, if you live in a city or the country so don't think I am figureing you for some rich city kid or something. I am just trying to tell you how I came upon my conclusions about the 243. It wasn't from shooting a coyote at 300 yards and saying hey, I could kill and elk with this thing.
As far asthe meat thing goes, I have cut up andate some shoulder shot and arse shot animals andwhen that bullet hits abig shoulder bone it doesn't do the meat any favors. Last year I saw some hunters my friend knows, all shooting at least a 30 cal.,take home therecow that didn't have a quarter without at least one bullet hole in it. You can't tell me that I didn't get more meat from the cow I killed with a 243 and one shot in the neck.We gave them a pretty good ribbing about their shooting. So we will agree to disagree on that.
I killed myfirst elk with a 243 when I was 13.Now I probably could have shota 300 weatherby mag at that age, but Iprobably wouldhave had a seriously bad flinching problem to get over too. Whenmy son gets old enough to hunt you can bet he will kill his first elk with a 243. That way he can learn how to shoot a gun properly withoutthinking about the recoil.After shooting his gun enough to know it's limitations and what ranges he can shoot accurately at, he can go hunting.Now teaching someone to pass up on a shot because he can't shoot that far or should wait for a better shot, that sounds like the ethics that you are speaking of.
I think shooting a smaller rifle that you can drive tacks with is no less ethical than shooting abig gunthat you don't shoot as well.
As for not being able to handle the recoil of a bigger rifle, well why don't you just say something bad about my mother while your at it. I do have a 300 H&H andhave killed some elkanddeer with it.
Maybewe just come from different places so it's hard to get where the other is coming from. When I was young I had two guns a 22lr and a handed down 243. Didn't have much other choice, so I shot that 243 at everything I could and learned how to shoot pretty well with it. Maybe that is why I think the243 can do things that you don't isI shot one for a long time and know what it can do and what it can't.I also live out in the sticks so I can go hunting all season long I don't just have a week like someone comeing from town would. Iguess that would play into thingsalso ifone didn't havealot of time to go hunting and didn't want to pass on some shots. Where I live in the same area I hunt Ican pass on a bad shot if I don't think I can get the animal killed. ( more of your ethics )
I don't know how old you are or how you grew up, if you live in a city or the country so don't think I am figureing you for some rich city kid or something. I am just trying to tell you how I came upon my conclusions about the 243. It wasn't from shooting a coyote at 300 yards and saying hey, I could kill and elk with this thing.
As far asthe meat thing goes, I have cut up andate some shoulder shot and arse shot animals andwhen that bullet hits abig shoulder bone it doesn't do the meat any favors. Last year I saw some hunters my friend knows, all shooting at least a 30 cal.,take home therecow that didn't have a quarter without at least one bullet hole in it. You can't tell me that I didn't get more meat from the cow I killed with a 243 and one shot in the neck.We gave them a pretty good ribbing about their shooting. So we will agree to disagree on that.
06-05-2007, 10:34 PM
#30
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Simcoe, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 104
RE: Caliber for Elk/Bear/Elephant/JabbatheHut
ORIGINAL: ross220
Sorry young gun, I but just can't see how I am not ethical because I have shot elk with a 243. If there is no way anyone should shoot an elk with anything less than a 30 cal. than how does one go about killing an elk with a little ol' bow and arrow? I can't figure that one. How many foot pounds does a60 lb bow make anyway.
I killed myfirst elk with a 243 when I was 13.Now I probably could have shota 300 weatherby mag at that age, but Iprobably wouldhave had a seriously bad flinching problem to get over too. Whenmy son gets old enough to hunt you can bet he will kill his first elk with a 243. That way he can learn how to shoot a gun properly withoutthinking about the recoil.After shooting his gun enough to know it's limitations and what ranges he can shoot accurately at, he can go hunting.Now teaching someone to pass up on a shot because he can't shoot that far or should wait for a better shot, that sounds like the ethics that you are speaking of.
I think shooting a smaller rifle that you can drive tacks with is no less ethical than shooting abig gunthat you don't shoot as well.
As for not being able to handle the recoil of a bigger rifle, well why don't you just say something bad about my mother while your at it. I do have a 300 H&H andhave killed some elkanddeer with it.
Maybewe just come from different places so it's hard to get where the other is coming from. When I was young I had two guns a 22lr and a handed down 243. Didn't have much other choice, so I shot that 243 at everything I could and learned how to shoot pretty well with it. Maybe that is why I think the243 can do things that you don't isI shot one for a long time and know what it can do and what it can't.I also live out in the sticks so I can go hunting all season long I don't just have a week like someone comeing from town would. Iguess that would play into thingsalso ifone didn't havealot of time to go hunting and didn't want to pass on some shots. Where I live in the same area I hunt Ican pass on a bad shot if I don't think I can get the animal killed. ( more of your ethics )
I don't know how old you are or how you grew up, if you live in a city or the country so don't think I am figureing you for some rich city kid or something. I am just trying to tell you how I came upon my conclusions about the 243. It wasn't from shooting a coyote at 300 yards and saying hey, I could kill and elk with this thing.
As far asthe meat thing goes, I have cut up andate some shoulder shot and arse shot animals andwhen that bullet hits abig shoulder bone it doesn't do the meat any favors. Last year I saw some hunters my friend knows, all shooting at least a 30 cal.,take home therecow that didn't have a quarter without at least one bullet hole in it. You can't tell me that I didn't get more meat from the cow I killed with a 243 and one shot in the neck.We gave them a pretty good ribbing about their shooting. So we will agree to disagree on that.
Sorry young gun, I but just can't see how I am not ethical because I have shot elk with a 243. If there is no way anyone should shoot an elk with anything less than a 30 cal. than how does one go about killing an elk with a little ol' bow and arrow? I can't figure that one. How many foot pounds does a60 lb bow make anyway.
I killed myfirst elk with a 243 when I was 13.Now I probably could have shota 300 weatherby mag at that age, but Iprobably wouldhave had a seriously bad flinching problem to get over too. Whenmy son gets old enough to hunt you can bet he will kill his first elk with a 243. That way he can learn how to shoot a gun properly withoutthinking about the recoil.After shooting his gun enough to know it's limitations and what ranges he can shoot accurately at, he can go hunting.Now teaching someone to pass up on a shot because he can't shoot that far or should wait for a better shot, that sounds like the ethics that you are speaking of.
I think shooting a smaller rifle that you can drive tacks with is no less ethical than shooting abig gunthat you don't shoot as well.
As for not being able to handle the recoil of a bigger rifle, well why don't you just say something bad about my mother while your at it. I do have a 300 H&H andhave killed some elkanddeer with it.
Maybewe just come from different places so it's hard to get where the other is coming from. When I was young I had two guns a 22lr and a handed down 243. Didn't have much other choice, so I shot that 243 at everything I could and learned how to shoot pretty well with it. Maybe that is why I think the243 can do things that you don't isI shot one for a long time and know what it can do and what it can't.I also live out in the sticks so I can go hunting all season long I don't just have a week like someone comeing from town would. Iguess that would play into thingsalso ifone didn't havealot of time to go hunting and didn't want to pass on some shots. Where I live in the same area I hunt Ican pass on a bad shot if I don't think I can get the animal killed. ( more of your ethics )
I don't know how old you are or how you grew up, if you live in a city or the country so don't think I am figureing you for some rich city kid or something. I am just trying to tell you how I came upon my conclusions about the 243. It wasn't from shooting a coyote at 300 yards and saying hey, I could kill and elk with this thing.
As far asthe meat thing goes, I have cut up andate some shoulder shot and arse shot animals andwhen that bullet hits abig shoulder bone it doesn't do the meat any favors. Last year I saw some hunters my friend knows, all shooting at least a 30 cal.,take home therecow that didn't have a quarter without at least one bullet hole in it. You can't tell me that I didn't get more meat from the cow I killed with a 243 and one shot in the neck.We gave them a pretty good ribbing about their shooting. So we will agree to disagree on that.