Elk herds reduced by wolves
 

Here is an interesting article from the Billings Gazette on the effects of wolves on elk populations.
http://www.billingsgazette.net/artic...te/20-wolf.txt

RE: Elk herds reduced by wolves
 

That is interesting. I have never thought about that aspect before. I am too far removed geographically to make an informed opinion about the wolves, but looking at it from a strictly hunting aspect they don't seem to be good.

RE: Elk herds reduced by wolves
 

They have cut alot of the moose down in western Wyoming as well. Used to see the moose all the time but sightings are much less often now.

RE: Elk herds reduced by wolves
 

Read it and weep.
Tree Huggers 5, and Hunters about -2.... and to think some hunters whole heartedly supported the wolf re-introduction.... what a sales job it was [very romantic idea, but pure poison if you are a hunter].

We were:
Out planned,
Out figured,
Out sold,
Out financed,
Out politic-ed

and if the trend continues, soon....

Out of game..... won't be a need for hunters to keep nature in balanceat this rate [look what happened to the historic "Gardiner Hunt" just outside of Yellowstone.

The "greatest generation" knew exactly what they were doing when they irradicated wolves in the lower 48.... won't be long before the "elk smorgasboard" of Colorado [largest elk herd in the world] will start to be turned intowolfmunchies once the scourge arrives here.....

I'm glad my wife, my boys and I got to see it and hunt it in the "glory days" [maybe a few more years to go and for that I am thankful].

RE: Elk herds reduced by wolves
 

A pack of wolves just killed three of my buddys hound dogs in Avery Idaho last week. Front page of the St. Maries Gazettenews ... wolves came in very close to town while he had jumped a hot cougar track. He had to fight them off by shooting several times over their heads to get his dead dogs out. He sold his last dog for 5,000. People are very misinformed imo. It will take the killing of a child before something is officially done here in this state. The state is taking no action as of now on my friends case. They literally have no fear of humans here because they are protected by the feds.

RE: Elk herds reduced by wolves
 

That's no joke. I used to enjoy counting how many moose I saw heading east from Togwote pass during the summer/fall. I'd see probably 5 moose each time. Now I consider it good luck if I see one moose.

The US Fish and Wildlife Service is a complete joke when it comes to wolf management in the Rocky Mountains. But whats new?

RE: Elk herds reduced by wolves
 

The nature lovers would love to see wolves not hunters manage game populations. Whats so great about lying on the ground having your guts ripped out while you still alive? Wolves are natural predators but even the indians shot wolf out of there area's to increase game populations. They kept them managed just like we are supposed to do. Humans have been apart of the enviromental balance long before any tree hugger ever wrote their first denial of hunting.

Wolves have their place in established area's and need to be regulated regularly :D

RE: Elk herds reduced by wolves
 

Wolves in Idaho have had an additive effect on elk mortality. Additive means in addition do, not causative. Lack of disturbance (logging and fire) had elk populations headed down long before the wolves were a gleam in a tree huggers eye. So, while wolves have certainly taken their fair share you can place most of the blame on the Clinton Roadless Bill, 50 years of fire suppression, and black bears which take up to 90% of elk calves in some areas of Idaho. A healthy elk herd in good habitat could have absorbed the extra mortality from wolves.

The one single thing that hurts the herds the most is losing calves. What we are seeing right now is bears getting the majority of thecalf mortality(under 8 months) and then once they get to 8-10 months wolves get the majority. So, logic dictates that if we can keep more calves alive, when they get to 8-12 months they will be better able to absorb the wolf mortality. It doesn't help the wolves are taking adult cows either.

Again these problem areas were this way long before wolves arrived. They just added to the mortality. It's all a big mess and the truth is never as black and white as most of you would like to make it.

RE: Elk herds reduced by wolves
 

BrutalAttack, you are so arrogant...Re: Additive means in addition! You should have read the article, as it wasspeaking to the lowered pregnancies, not to calf mortality. According to this article, the healthy ratio is way above what seems to be found in areas a wolf population,such as the Park. NO herd can sustain itself with the numbersstated in this article, let's hope the numbers are wrong.....

RE: Elk herds reduced by wolves
 

How can anyone calling themselves hunters be apposed to the reintroduction of wolves. You need more respect for a fellow hunter, thougha 4 legged one. Wolves were eating north american wildlife long before we ever showed up.
I for one have been compeating with wolves for elk and moose my whole life and haven't had any trouble filling my tags. If we were really concerned about moose/elk/caribou being taken by 4 legged preditors, the grizzlies would be the first poisoned off.
Does'nt sould like an ethicall position for any hunter to take.

RE: Elk herds reduced by wolves
 

Tangozulu, you should be aware that there is a bunch more habitat north of the USA than there is in the lower 48 states. Wolves are not much of an issue in Alaska, and in fact there is an open hunting season on them there. The amount of habitat down in the lower 48 can have the wolf, it is just at a greater cost to the other animals in the system.

RE: Elk herds reduced by wolves
 

The thing that really bothers me about this is that ESU is still considered "endangered" and not covered under the 10j and 4(d) rules as are the other wolves in Idaho.

I don't believe in anyone not having the legal right to defend their property against depredations endangered species or not.

RE: Elk herds reduced by wolves
 

Why are you being so sensative? I wasn't even replying to you. I was attempting to explain a very complex issue so that everyone can understand it, and I don't mean that in a superior way. Not everyone understands the issue fully, most only know what their friends say or some trashy periodical publishes and portrays as the "truth".

Not everyone understands that difference between additive and compensatory mortaility as it pertains to population dynamics.

So you think that because I used a big word or something, I'm arrogant?

I think someone has an inferiority complex.....

Seems I can't post anything around here without someone jumping me about every little thing.

Everytime I'm here I wish for someone that wants to have an intelligent conversation rather than a name calling emotionally charged circular argument.

RE: Elk herds reduced by wolves
 

I was against wolves at first. What I have found is the wolves keep the elk moving from what has been traditional, "private Property",locations allowing me to have more chances to harvest my elk. I am seeing elk in places I never used to see in them before. MV out!

P.S. Besides, seeing a wolf in the wild is an experience I am starting to enjoy.

RE: Elk herds reduced by wolves
 

You guys can have them, I have to compete with too many rednecks , and that is enough for me.

RE: Elk herds reduced by wolves
 

BrutalAttack.....In response to the "not replying to you" aspect of your last post, when you post a message on the board, it is open to all to comment on. If you want to address one person only, use the PM method provided, and there will be less confrontationfor you to deal with.

The real issue here is that your original post was off topic. You went off in the mortality rates debate/discussion tangent, as opposed to the topic of the article, which was about elk pregnancies.

Your being arrogant is just an observation of mine, nothing more, nothing less.

RE: Elk herds reduced by wolves
 

well i am glad theres not to many of them hear in colorado.....but i know that can change

RE: Elk herds reduced by wolves
 

Very interesting.
I have heard that some elk/deer-like animals could hold off birth until it was safe....even by a month, but did not realize elk could stop it all together!
I wonder what the next step will be? :eek:

RE: Elk herds reduced by wolves
 

Yeah well I guess for those of us that can handle thinking about more than one component of a highly complex issue at once you can go sit in the corner and be quiet.

You've already shown you aren't bringing anything to the table except name calling and finger pointing.

Opinions are like *******s everyone has one.

RE: Elk herds reduced by wolves
 

The attitude you are showing is why you have so many issues on this forum. I thought I had addressed every point you had raised, and in a fairly concise fashion, and without any real emotion. You seem to not handle someone that doesn't bow toyour opinion very well, and perhaps get a tad bit too upset, as your response would imply. No big deal.....

RE: Elk herds reduced by wolves
 

As far as being able to handle more than one component at a time, you first would need to be "on topic" before your great mind would be of any benefit to us lesser, one topic,minds.

What is there to bring to the proverbial table? It was an article, most of us actually read it, and it was an interesting twist to the wolf issue. Your addition to the topic, or more acurately..."what you brought to the table," was in fact something that had nothing to do with the original article, and should have been brought to a different table, as it was completely off topic.

RE: Elk herds reduced by wolves
 

I think all of us should go to Idaho and anhaillate those wolves!


For such a small price for residents, we should donate to our HNI members to buy as many tags as they can, and they can give them to their buddies!

That way, every Idaho tag will be filled, and those wolves will be with a lower pregnancy rate!:D

RE: Elk herds reduced by wolves
 

They'll have to kill off those wolves, otherwise, they'll totally drive the elk into extinction by 2033.

RE: Elk herds reduced by wolves
 

younggun - it is talk like that that has inflammed the tensions between the states and people within that have to deal with the problem of high population of wolves, the federal gov't and the numerous "greeny" groups that have repeatedly sued in federal courts to stop the delisting of wolves in MN, Wisc., MI and more recently in the western states.
The federal gov't will not at this point allow wolves to be delisted in any state of the lower 48 unless those states' DNR, Dept. of Fish & Game, etc. prove that they have a comprehesive plan that guarantees that what you speak of "annihilation... extinction" doesn't happen.
It's best not to stick you're finger into a hornets nest that has been building for decades. We who live in the states and areas that have the Timber (Grey) Wolf problem have to deal with it.
If you are unfortunate enough to ever have someone from the Dept. of USFW or Interior get the "bright idea" to reintroduce wolves to your neck of TN, you'd find out what a pain to deal with the federal gov't and these non-governmental busy body organizations like WWF, Sierra Club, US Humane Society and other is.