ultimag

I love Wolves. On my fur stretchers

MinnFinn

furgitter - It's not a matter of people here "getting involved". Gray wolves long ago reached and since surpassed and now even with the state and federal wolf counts (which most people in wolf range know are low) have nearly doubled the planned "recovery population" necessary to delist them for the ES list. The trouble is with all of these stick their noses in other peoples business "greeny" groups like Sierra Club, PETA, U.S. Humane Society, WWF and others that file suit in federal court every time federal US and MN state authorities try to complete the process of delisting Gray wolves in MN.
We don't want to totatally eliminate wolves here. We just want our state to have the authority to control their numbers so they don't cause so many problems with game and domestic animals.

Idaho hunter 58

Brutal never responded. Hmmm... maybe i missed in there somwhere.

furgitter

Minnfinn,I feel your pain.I do have a bone to pick with any wild K9 and it kills me that the wolves are protected.Im not going to loose my license over it.Ill also mind my own bussiness if someone wants to take that risk.As a matter of fact,i dont even want to know about it.
Ive always said that farmland is no place for wolves.The big woods has a place for them,and if you go there,expect to see them and deal with it.Dogs will get ate etc.

Dirt2

Don't have time for a full reading of this post, I'll come back later. Just want to say that I know the principals in your story very well. I studied under Dr. Peak before he retired, and I worked for Holly and Jim for two years on a bighorn sheep study in that country. These people are friends of mine.

rack tracker

dirt what does that mean

Dirt2

Okay, having read through the posts I'm ready to makejust a couple points. First, notice the title of the article at the head. It said wolves not DECIMATING the elk population in ID. Read the article. The three "experts" as you like to call them do not say that wolves are not eating elk, or even that they are having no effect on elk populations. It's odd how people take a tiny thread and run off in a million directions with it.

Let me tell you a little about the three experts in that story. As I said, I know them well. Dr. Peak is an elk hunter. He believes, from conversations over campfires that I've had with him, that with all our ingenuity in this modern age, we can figure out how to have both wolves and elk. He believes wolves have value as part of a natural ecosystem (warning! pinko scientist word there!). I agree with him. Jim Akenson is a traditional archery hunter and has a backlog of P&Y muley bucks that I doubt anyone on this website can match. Holly is his wife and I guaranteecan hike 99% of you macho men into the ground. I've never run into another woman anywhereas tough to keep up with on a trail.Just thought I'd try to put a little bit of a human face on a couple people who are "experts" to most of you - apparently that's a real dirty word - but "friends" to me. Do I need to define that for you, Rack Tracker?

rather_be_huntin

I think that's the argument right there. Everyone knows there are several factors that go into a healthy elk population...you know what they are no need to get into them. But many people believe that wolves are the largest factor in DECIMATING elk herds. Many don't believe the expert opinion that they are only a small factor. I know Jason well, aka IdahoElkInstructor, he is a very rational level-headed guy and he has me convinced that is some areas in Idaho wolves are a very real problem.

The thing the experts and possibly you aren't understanding about what some are saying about wolves is that in some areas wolves aren't a problem, barely noticeable. In some areas they are having a mild effect. In some areas they have flat out run the elk into the ground. In some areas wolves don't exist. I don't know what area or areas the experts in this case used for their studies. But I think based on a LARGE number of accounts from level headed sportsman it's clear that SOME areas the have held large number of elk for many years are now elk ghost towns. That can't be ignored and the reason why many here do not buy into the expert opinion that started this thread.

I live in Utah where wolves do not have a large presence. But after reading and hearing these stories I am absolutely terrified of them coming to Utah, and against it. I am convinced that in SOME areas they are a very real problem that can no longer be ignored, dismissed as myth, chalked up to some guy making up stories, a figment of someones imagination, an exageration, or a misunderstanding. There are too many reputable sources that are making too much noise. It can not be dismissed any longer. In mind it's passed the point of debate, we are in a serious fight here and the sooner everyone gets there head out of the sand the sooner we can save the future of hunting. Maybe for us it's just a few of our favorite hunting spots that are suffering but 10- 15years from now I fear we will be fist fighting each other at the sporting goods counter for the small amount of tags there will be sold for the privilege of being able to hunt. And we will look back and wish we did something while we had the chance. We will all be on boards like this whining to each other about how much we took hunting for granted, and how sad we are we can't pass it on to our children and grandchildren.

Wolves are a problem. We need to wake up and do something about it. Can wolves and elk coexist in the lower 48 with allof the land development that is happening? Ican't answer that. But what is happening now is nothing short ofthe slow and methodical extinction of hunters in the USA.

MinnFinn

Dirt2 - I'm sure these "experts" may be experienced in hunting an a number of things. But wolves were only reintroduced into the western states 10 years ago. They've been in our state all along in very heavy concentrations for the past 25 years. They DO have a major impact on the game, espeically the young they feed on.