caselesss5

here read this...i pulled this directly from the IDFG website under there 2006 Big Game Season Prospects



"While the total statewide elk population remains stable, wolves are having impacts in localized areas. Wolf-caused predation can reduce the harvestable surplus of elk, especially in those areas where habitat conditions are poor. As an example, intensive monitoring of elk in the Lolo Zone has documented relatively high wolf-caused mortality among elk. For several years the department has been actively implementing the Clearwater Elk Initiative designed to improve elk habitat and elk populations that historically were the envy of the West. Assistance from local sportsmen, congressional staff, and the U.S. Forest Service is key to returning the Lolo Zone to productive elk habitat.

Not only do wolves prey on individual elk, they also change the behavior of those not preyed upon. Several research projects have been completed during the past few years that offer insight into how elk respond to wolves. A common theme is that elk make themselves less detectable by spending more time in dense cover, being less vocal, and traveling in smaller groups. Besides reducing chances of being detected by wolves, this behavior also reduces chances of being found by a hunter. Additionally, the presence of wolves can cause elk to move long distances and use different habitats. Many hunters have adapted new hunting techniques to improve their chances of a successful elk hunt where wolves occur.
"

see fish and game knows exactly what we know....the wolves have got to go!!


http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/cms/news/fg_news/sep06_season_prospects.cfm

trouthunter

I'm a recent transplant to Oregon (living on the Idaho/Oregon border in Hells Canyon)but spent all my life hunting elk in Idaho, and still put in for the hunts there. My new Oregon hunting buddies haven't felt the effect of the wolves, but it is only a matter of time before a pack swims the river. I'm in agreeance with Idahoelkinstructor...I've seen the predation effects first hand in some of my favorite old elk haunts. I say haunts because now all there is are elk "ghosts" left...

SSS

Idaho hunter 58

@ brutal.

I think everything i would say as already been said.

Jeff Ovington

Well than start shootin them........
The worst case scenario is a charge.....
Take the matter to court, with the evidence you have all put on this forum and see if it gets over turned.
At least your standing up for what you believe in.....
Do what you forfathers did before you..Remember the Boston Tea Party,
and the American Revolution...
Nothing is just givin to you,take a stsand and fight....
My buddy lost 16 newborn calves to 5 Bald Eagles.....
He reported it to the Conservation Dept...Which in turn did nothing...
So he took it upon himself to shoot them...
Now this went Story went across Can, and may have even across the boarder,
he ended with a$10,000 dollar fine which he says was a small price to pay considering the amount of money he'd loose in years to come...
The British Columbia Cattlemans Assc. came up with the money for the fine...
I bet your bottem dollar if what you say is true, some hunting org will come bail you out...

ShatoDavis

Wasn't there a "scientist" in alaska that said that Brown bears weren't dangerous. That was until he was eaten.

Just because someone has a title like "scientist" or "doctor" or "senator" doesn't mean that they aren't full of sheep dip!I mean think about it for a second. They spend 6-8 years reading some books, and listening to some other egghead spew his "book learning" and suddenly they are "experts". Maybe, they actually know what they're talking about. Then again, maybe, they have no clue! I don't know, but I tend to listen to folks who spend there days outside, rather than indoors.

Its kind of like the "scientists" and 'experts" that the local cattleman's association is always bringing around. They have all these great ideas, and know what needs to be done... Problem is they may or may not of ever worked on a cattle ranch.

Or the "Engineer" who told me how to build his house. He wanted me to free span a 24 foot wide area. I told him that it would sag. He told me that he was the engineer and he had calculated it and knew that it wouldn't sag. I told him that I've been doing it for years and it would. He said do it anyway. I done it, and guess what? IT SAGGED.

My point is: There are good and knowledgeable people in this world. Some with degrees, some without. There are also a lot more morons out there. Some with degrees, some without!

furgitter

Anyone can have an opinion,even if there not a brainiac.People who are acting hot under the collar are the ones least listened to.Yall just need prozac or something.BOSTON TEA PARTY? What? And you want someone to hear you?Good luck.

ShatoDavis

furgitter,

i agree totally. people may not like the system, but that doesn't change the fact that its what we have. You have to work within the confines of the law. I gave people an option on how to get there voices heard. But, they would rather complain than take action. I say once again, join SCI and get in the fight rather than watching from the sidelines and complaining.

CervidSlayer

I have never hunted elk, but I am in 100% agreement with all of you that support the fact that the wolves are doing more harm than good...especially you Idahoelkinstructor. I am originally from Texas, where there is a wolf problem in the marsh regions of SE Texas. not as much as there used to be, but still a prob. My grandfather has a beach house in SE Texas, and Ihave watched(as a child and an adult)himlose countless dogs and cats to wolf packs, because the Govt protects a species that is getting closer and closer to urban areas. This place I speak of...50 minute drive from Houston.
Why dont some of you freakin tree-hugging sorry excuses forpeople watch a wolf eat your dog/cat and explain to your crying children/granchildrenwhy you didnt shoot the animal...just let it go because your too afraid of what uncle Sam will do to you if you stand up for yourselves. By the way the wolves that are "protected" have their pelts hanging in the duck camp because they got too close to the house...and ate our dogs/cats.
Down here...we dont wait for something to be done...we DO IT AND IF WE FEEL THAT IT WAS RIGHT...DAMN THE CONSEQUENCES AND THE GOVERNMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wake up people...stop being a political puppet with easily pulled strings!

rather_be_huntin

"The teleconference was hosted by Defenders of Wildlife"

That says all you need to know about this "expert opinion".

I have changed my stance on wolves. It's not often I say I'm wrong but I need to say it here. I used to think that wolves would at most midly impact elk and deer populations. I thought that soon we'd hunt them and control them like every other predator.

I still don't think that wolves aresome sort ofsuper predator but I have realized their relevance, what the point of having them reintroduced actually was. I never supported reintroduction but I didn't think it was that big of a deal either. Now I realize it was move by bunny huggers to get rid of hunting, they put us in check and if we aren't careful it will be check mate. I now realize for the rest of my days we will be fighting some court battle somewhere and we will see wolves spreading unchecked somewhere in this country and I know it will eventually be in my backyard. Reintroducing wolves was a political move and we will for years to come have a very serious political battle on our hands. The political implications of this are in my opinion decimating elk herds and when the food runs out for wolves they won't die off so the elk populations can rebound the wolves will move to more bountiful hunting grounds.

SSS! That's all I have to say.

trouthunter

Both good points, but those of us from Idaho remember back about 12 years ago when this little wolf experiment got started. Wolves were all but a memory back then, and that is exactly how the re-introduction started. As and "experiment". The so called experts didn't believe the small population initially introduced would grow, and that the then collared and tracked "small" wolfpacks would have little impact on the current enviroment (elk herd). The so called experts were wonderously happy when the wolf packs grew expenentially and "addapted so well to thier new environments, withnew litters starting their own little packs". 12 years later we have a considerably large wolf population, and the elkpopulation has decreased 30%since the re-introduction (check Idaho Fish and Game reports for all the numbers). Biologists (Federal) have tried to explain the elk reduction on anything from oversales on tags to global warming, and trying everything to skirt the posibility of wolf predation.

All that aside,Idaho's (as well as Montana andWyoming) general pubic had no say in the re-introduction. Sportsman, ranchers, land owners and the like all had to sit and watch as the Endangered Species Act, backed by Federal and special interest groups, force fed us the re-introduction. There was no"say" for us to have. We had to follow the "letter of the law" becauseare hands were tied. It wasn't a matter of a fine and a slap on the hand for shooting a wolf. It was a huge fine and significant jail time. The wolves wereFederally protected , which is a whole other "BostonTea Party", to the point of shooting a wolf could come down to another Randy Weaver incident. Idahoans were already under the gun with ourWeavers, our Skinheads,our Claude Dallas's.Getmy drift??

Idaho sportsman nowjust have to sit and wait for wolf control, which is in the works. The wolves are de-listed (hmmm...population boom= lots of wolves = no longer endangered). The Feds are still holding the cards, but IDFG wants to start control, even to the point ofan open wolf season.

BUT...the damage to the elk herds has all ready been done. Any control now is just too little to late.

There is my soapbox, bitch, whine, and complaint! Take it for what it is worth...

SSS