Wolf, to shoot or not to shoot, that is the question?
12-28-2006, 12:53 PM
#71
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
RE: Wolf, to shoot or not to shoot, that is the question?
Are you people so stupid not to realize that you are only defeating yourselves with this shoot shovel shut up crap? Why do you think they are a protected species in the first place? Because your ancestors shot, shoveled, and shut up many years ago and wiped them out. As long as every one is shooting shoveling and shutting up they will never get delisted and you will never have a hunting season on them and the problem will continue to grow larger and larger with theelk, moose and deer populations continuing to grow smaller and smaller.
You people are the only reason we have this problem today and are even talking about it.
The endangered species act of 1973 was created to protectALL of theanimals that are in danger of becoming extinct. You don't get to pick and choose which animals to protect.
Animals that have been saved because of this act include................
Grizzly bear, Black bear, Bison, bobcat, woodland caribou, bald eagle, key deer, American alligator, sea turtles, and hundreds upon hundreds of more animals and plants around the world.
So quit your damn bitching and work with your politicians to get hunting seasons and regulations established for the wolf and abide by those regulations just like you would any other animal that you would hunt. Cause thetrack you all areon you will never get there.
You people are the only reason we have this problem today and are even talking about it.
The endangered species act of 1973 was created to protectALL of theanimals that are in danger of becoming extinct. You don't get to pick and choose which animals to protect.
Animals that have been saved because of this act include................
Grizzly bear, Black bear, Bison, bobcat, woodland caribou, bald eagle, key deer, American alligator, sea turtles, and hundreds upon hundreds of more animals and plants around the world.
So quit your damn bitching and work with your politicians to get hunting seasons and regulations established for the wolf and abide by those regulations just like you would any other animal that you would hunt. Cause thetrack you all areon you will never get there.
12-28-2006, 01:12 PM
#72
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Posts: 2,555
RE: Wolf, to shoot or not to shoot, that is the question?
Personally, I think wolves are cool, and I don't think I'll be shooting one anytime soon. Had one at 15 yards last year, it never even saw me. Me and my dad could hear the whole pack all morning. It was cool. Wrecked our morning for hunting, but it was a cool experience.
12-28-2006, 01:24 PM
#73
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Posts: 2,555
RE: Wolf, to shoot or not to shoot, that is the question?
endangered species act of 1973 was created to protectALL of theanimals that are in danger of becoming extinct
12-28-2006, 02:48 PM
#74
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: WV
Posts: 4,485
RE: Wolf, to shoot or not to shoot, that is the question?
Good Point Jason.
BTW. The wolves that were "introduced" lately were, I believe, actually the Canadian sub-species, whichare significantly larger than the western sub-species was.
.......................and I don't think they are in danger of becoming extinct at all, are they??
Not logical Captain[8D]
BTW, Was the black bear ever on that list??? I have a hard time imagining that
BTW. The wolves that were "introduced" lately were, I believe, actually the Canadian sub-species, whichare significantly larger than the western sub-species was.
.......................and I don't think they are in danger of becoming extinct at all, are they??
You people are the only reason we have this problem today and are even talking about it.
BTW, Was the black bear ever on that list??? I have a hard time imagining that
12-28-2006, 04:02 PM
#75
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
RE: Wolf, to shoot or not to shoot, that is the question?
After all I don't see many african animals running around in the Idaho mountains.
BTW, Was the black bear ever on that list??? I have a hard time imagining that
And so was the Columbianwhite tail deer, several species of fox, Jaguar, spotted owls.
Here is the current list of endangered species of the world.
http://ecos.fws.gov/tess_public/SpeciesReport.do?dsource=animals
Not logical Captain[8D]
There are extremes to all sides of any debate. People like those of you who want to SSS are the reason they became endangered to begin with and the reason the endangered species was even created. The tree huggers that figure out how to use things like the ESA are the extreme on the other side of the debate and are the ones causing the problems today by wanting to keep them listed. If the two extreme sides would just shut up andget out of it all together a whole bunch of problems could be solved and much quicker than it is currently taking today.
12-28-2006, 09:40 PM
#76
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Beautiful Western Montana
Posts: 2,308
RE: Wolf, to shoot or not to shoot, that is the question?
ORIGINAL: bigbulls
Well that's becasue the African animals are native to Africa. The grey and red wolfs are native to the lower 48.
Yes the Louisiana black bear was endangered.
And so was the Columbianwhite tail deer, several species of fox, Jaguar, spotted owls.
Here is the current list of endangered species of the world.
http://ecos.fws.gov/tess_public/SpeciesReport.do?dsource=animals
100% logical. If it were not for the greed of the humans that killed them off to begin with we wouldn't need to be having this conversation.
There are extremes to all sides of any debate. People like those of you who want to SSS are the reason they became endangered to begin with and the reason the endangered species was even created. The tree huggers that figure out how to use things like the ESA are the extreme on the other side of the debate and are the ones causing the problems today by wanting to keep them listed. If the two extreme sides would just shut up andget out of it all together a whole bunch of problems could be solved and much quicker than it is currently taking today.
After all I don't see many african animals running around in the Idaho mountains.
BTW, Was the black bear ever on that list??? I have a hard time imagining that
And so was the Columbianwhite tail deer, several species of fox, Jaguar, spotted owls.
Here is the current list of endangered species of the world.
http://ecos.fws.gov/tess_public/SpeciesReport.do?dsource=animals
Not logical Captain[8D]
There are extremes to all sides of any debate. People like those of you who want to SSS are the reason they became endangered to begin with and the reason the endangered species was even created. The tree huggers that figure out how to use things like the ESA are the extreme on the other side of the debate and are the ones causing the problems today by wanting to keep them listed. If the two extreme sides would just shut up andget out of it all together a whole bunch of problems could be solved and much quicker than it is currently taking today.
12-28-2006, 09:47 PM
#77
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Beautiful Western Montana
Posts: 2,308
RE: Wolf, to shoot or not to shoot, that is the question?
ORIGINAL: elkslayer338
I have never violated the law or taken game wrongfully so I could not shoot one unless it was legal.
I have never violated the law or taken game wrongfully so I could not shoot one unless it was legal.
12-29-2006, 08:19 AM
#78
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location:
Posts: 249
RE: Wolf, to shoot or not to shoot, that is the question?
ORIGINAL: muley69
Whats moral and legal are often not the same thing. I have no issue with a man violating the law to do what is universally moral. I wouldn't hesitate to use my constitutional right of jury nullfication if brought forth in court and I were on the jury.
ORIGINAL: elkslayer338
I have never violated the law or taken game wrongfully so I could not shoot one unless it was legal.
I have never violated the law or taken game wrongfully so I could not shoot one unless it was legal.
12-29-2006, 02:11 PM
#79
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
RE: Wolf, to shoot or not to shoot, that is the question?
Muley, I never said I like or disliked any thing about the ESA.
But the fact is if it werenot forhumans killing off different species of animals there would have never been any need for the ESA to begin with. The ESA is theonly reason there are now huntable populations of animals, like the Grizzly, numerous seal species, numerous whale species, numerous salmon speciesthat were once on the brink of extinction. Other wise the humans would have continued killing these animals until they actually did become extinct and we wouldn't have anything to complain about cause there would be no animals left.
The elk once roamed 90% of this country but now only lives in about 10% of its original range thanks to the greed of humans. It damn sure wasn't the wolf that killed off the elk. It was us. So quit bitching about the wolf, go look in the mirror and realize where the true and original problem lies.
Animal conservation goes full circle, predators and prey. They both belong and IMO would be a shame to loose any of them for ever. I have no desire to kill off the predators so that I may have all the prey to myself.
You and others with your same attitude continue to be on the extreme side of kill-em-all and there will continue to be the tree huggers that are there to protect every animal from everything. Your thought process about issues like this are exactly why we are in this situation in the first place.
I find it fascinating how many people arethe moral and ethicspolice when it comes to deer, elk, moose, others trespassing on their property, shooting yearlings, taking long shots, etc.. etc... but mention the wolf and their true colors shine through.
But the fact is if it werenot forhumans killing off different species of animals there would have never been any need for the ESA to begin with. The ESA is theonly reason there are now huntable populations of animals, like the Grizzly, numerous seal species, numerous whale species, numerous salmon speciesthat were once on the brink of extinction. Other wise the humans would have continued killing these animals until they actually did become extinct and we wouldn't have anything to complain about cause there would be no animals left.
The elk once roamed 90% of this country but now only lives in about 10% of its original range thanks to the greed of humans. It damn sure wasn't the wolf that killed off the elk. It was us. So quit bitching about the wolf, go look in the mirror and realize where the true and original problem lies.
Animal conservation goes full circle, predators and prey. They both belong and IMO would be a shame to loose any of them for ever. I have no desire to kill off the predators so that I may have all the prey to myself.
You and others with your same attitude continue to be on the extreme side of kill-em-all and there will continue to be the tree huggers that are there to protect every animal from everything. Your thought process about issues like this are exactly why we are in this situation in the first place.
Thats just the way I was brought up! To be A law abiding citizen and hunter who does not trespass or hunt out of season. Don't brake the Law Change it!
12-29-2006, 04:50 PM
#80
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location:
Posts: 249
RE: Wolf, to shoot or not to shoot, that is the question?
ORIGINAL: bigbulls
Muley, I never said I like or disliked any thing about the ESA.
But the fact is if it werenot forhumans killing off different species of animals there would have never been any need for the ESA to begin with. The ESA is theonly reason there are now huntable populations of animals, like the Grizzly, numerous seal species, numerous whale species, numerous salmon speciesthat were once on the brink of extinction. Other wise the humans would have continued killing these animals until they actually did become extinct and we wouldn't have anything to complain about cause there would be no animals left.
The elk once roamed 90% of this country but now only lives in about 10% of its original range thanks to the greed of humans. It damn sure wasn't the wolf that killed off the elk. It was us. So quit bitching about the wolf, go look in the mirror and realize where the true and original problem lies.
Animal conservation goes full circle, predators and prey. They both belong and IMO would be a shame to loose any of them for ever. I have no desire to kill off the predators so that I may have all the prey to myself.
You and others with your same attitude continue to be on the extreme side of kill-em-all and there will continue to be the tree huggers that are there to protect every animal from everything. Your thought process about issues like this are exactly why we are in this situation in the first place.
I find it fascinating how many people arethe moral and ethicspolice when it comes to deer, elk, moose, others trespassing on their property, shooting yearlings, taking long shots, etc.. etc... but mention the wolf and their true colors shine through.
Muley, I never said I like or disliked any thing about the ESA.
But the fact is if it werenot forhumans killing off different species of animals there would have never been any need for the ESA to begin with. The ESA is theonly reason there are now huntable populations of animals, like the Grizzly, numerous seal species, numerous whale species, numerous salmon speciesthat were once on the brink of extinction. Other wise the humans would have continued killing these animals until they actually did become extinct and we wouldn't have anything to complain about cause there would be no animals left.
The elk once roamed 90% of this country but now only lives in about 10% of its original range thanks to the greed of humans. It damn sure wasn't the wolf that killed off the elk. It was us. So quit bitching about the wolf, go look in the mirror and realize where the true and original problem lies.
Animal conservation goes full circle, predators and prey. They both belong and IMO would be a shame to loose any of them for ever. I have no desire to kill off the predators so that I may have all the prey to myself.
You and others with your same attitude continue to be on the extreme side of kill-em-all and there will continue to be the tree huggers that are there to protect every animal from everything. Your thought process about issues like this are exactly why we are in this situation in the first place.
Thats just the way I was brought up! To be A law abiding citizen and hunter who does not trespass or hunt out of season. Don't brake the Law Change it!
it really hurts me to see whats happened to the moose,elk andmule deer
populations. We need to get it together! Contact your congressman find out Ware they stand on De-listing the wolf,enlist their support. If they are not pro hunting vote them out next election.