7mm vs. 30-06
11-28-2002, 12:07 AM
#11
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rancho Murieta CA USA
Posts: 160
RE: 7mm vs. 30-06
Both are good calibers, but more important than the caliber is time spent shootin. Buy your gun, set up your scope and then shot the piss out of it from any and all positions. Standing, offhand, kneeling, sitting, tween your legs...well maybe not that one. Proficiency with your shooter, I think, is what puts more animals on the ground than bullet weight, caliber, etc.
11-29-2002, 01:46 PM
#12
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cedar Valley Utah
Posts: 977
RE: 7mm vs. 30-06
DreaminBoutElk, I agree with ya 100%. Whatever ever rifle you're using you should be as accurate as your ability will allow you to be. The only way to do that is with lots and lots of practice. That important part of hunting has gotten lost with all the high powered idiots on the hiil these days. But you forgot to add one thing to that, and that is the reason why there are differnt cartridges. The 7mm mag has more range and why it has a slight advantage. The 7mm shoots flatter and retains its energy a lot better down range. An 06 accually has more energy out of the muzzle but drops off much more rapidly then the 7mm.
11-29-2002, 06:19 PM
#13
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Highlands Out there! Canada
Posts: 100
RE: 7mm vs. 30-06
I'd choose the 06 without a doubt!!!
They are EQUAL in TRAJECTORY for my needs - With either rifle you can hold right on out to 300 yards if they are sighted accordingly, which will take care of 99% of my shots (most are within 100 yards).
But the 06 has a huge ADVANTAGE in bullet OPTIONS - you can load it down to a 120 if you really wanted and up to 220 grain. With the 7mm you're limited to 170 grains. In BIG BEAR country where many moose, elk (& MT^BOY's) live <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>, a 220 grain in the chamber gives me the added bone penetrating insurance that I want, where a 170 might just piss him off...
The BULLET OPTIONS make the 06 an easy choice over the 7mm...
I'd rather be out there>>> http://community.webshots.com/user/mtboys
MT^BOY <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Edited by - Mt^Boy on 11/29/2002 19:24:47
They are EQUAL in TRAJECTORY for my needs - With either rifle you can hold right on out to 300 yards if they are sighted accordingly, which will take care of 99% of my shots (most are within 100 yards).
But the 06 has a huge ADVANTAGE in bullet OPTIONS - you can load it down to a 120 if you really wanted and up to 220 grain. With the 7mm you're limited to 170 grains. In BIG BEAR country where many moose, elk (& MT^BOY's) live <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>, a 220 grain in the chamber gives me the added bone penetrating insurance that I want, where a 170 might just piss him off...
The BULLET OPTIONS make the 06 an easy choice over the 7mm...
I'd rather be out there>>> http://community.webshots.com/user/mtboys
MT^BOY <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Edited by - Mt^Boy on 11/29/2002 19:24:47
11-30-2002, 07:51 AM
#14
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Posts: 1,964
RE: 7mm vs. 30-06
Sounds like you have two items on your agenda: (1) owning a "custom" rifle and (2) owning the great "all-round" go everywhere, kill anything caliber.
Point 1 - If you need a custom rifle for a physical abnormality, then choose either caliber - folks have hunted a life time with either a 7mag or 30-06 and of course swear by the one they have. I'd go with the .30-06 personally. If you want a custom rifle for just for status then consider the following:
Point 2 - Sorry to disappoint, but there is no one gun does it all caliber out there - it is all a trade off. No one gun spans the whole spectrum. BUT, why not take the $$$$ you will be spending for a "custom" rifle and buy two used factory rifles? Say one chambered in the 7mag/.30-06 range and one chambered in the .338/.375 range, recommend Model 70's. Now you have the North American continent covered and if you are hunting moose in Alaska and are confronted by a monster bear like the one in the topic "It was supposed to be a casual deer hunt, but...." then you are not underpowered. If you watch the used rifle racks at Cabela's or work the gun shows you can pick up both rifles at a fair savings!
Be sure to decide for yourself about recoil, NOT from all the posts from folks who will talk about the big bores but haven't shot them or don't own them. If you go to a shooting center/range/sales center that also arranges African safari they may let you try them out from their used inventory. A 7mag can be a nasty, slap you hard, sharp, and quick recoiling caliber; they are consistently the meanest muzzle blast at the range. A .30-06 loaded with 220gr bullets is not a casual round to shoot either. The big bores are more "teddy bear-like" than you might think. For elk my twins (19) at 160/165 pounds shoot .338 mags. "Recoil? Dad it's just not a problem!" I use a 375HH, got others to choose from - like it best.
Just a thought. Always want you to get the most "bang for your buck" when you're spending those hunting dollars. A hunting toolbox with more than one rifle is a good thing. Having a back up gun in camp never hurts either.
EKM
Good judgement comes from bad experience! Half of elk hunting is knowing what NOT to do!
Edited by - ELKampMaster on 11/30/2002 08:58:49
Point 1 - If you need a custom rifle for a physical abnormality, then choose either caliber - folks have hunted a life time with either a 7mag or 30-06 and of course swear by the one they have. I'd go with the .30-06 personally. If you want a custom rifle for just for status then consider the following:
Point 2 - Sorry to disappoint, but there is no one gun does it all caliber out there - it is all a trade off. No one gun spans the whole spectrum. BUT, why not take the $$$$ you will be spending for a "custom" rifle and buy two used factory rifles? Say one chambered in the 7mag/.30-06 range and one chambered in the .338/.375 range, recommend Model 70's. Now you have the North American continent covered and if you are hunting moose in Alaska and are confronted by a monster bear like the one in the topic "It was supposed to be a casual deer hunt, but...." then you are not underpowered. If you watch the used rifle racks at Cabela's or work the gun shows you can pick up both rifles at a fair savings!
Be sure to decide for yourself about recoil, NOT from all the posts from folks who will talk about the big bores but haven't shot them or don't own them. If you go to a shooting center/range/sales center that also arranges African safari they may let you try them out from their used inventory. A 7mag can be a nasty, slap you hard, sharp, and quick recoiling caliber; they are consistently the meanest muzzle blast at the range. A .30-06 loaded with 220gr bullets is not a casual round to shoot either. The big bores are more "teddy bear-like" than you might think. For elk my twins (19) at 160/165 pounds shoot .338 mags. "Recoil? Dad it's just not a problem!" I use a 375HH, got others to choose from - like it best.
Just a thought. Always want you to get the most "bang for your buck" when you're spending those hunting dollars. A hunting toolbox with more than one rifle is a good thing. Having a back up gun in camp never hurts either.
EKM
Good judgement comes from bad experience! Half of elk hunting is knowing what NOT to do!
Edited by - ELKampMaster on 11/30/2002 08:58:49
11-30-2002, 08:38 PM
#16
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: fort mcmurray alberta canada
Posts: 5,667
RE: 7mm vs. 30-06
MT^Boy -To start with most bullet makers provide 175gr 7mm bullets and some make 7mm bullets heavier as if it was necessary.Anything that your 220gr .308 bullet will penetrate the 7mm 160gr failsafe or barnes x will penetrate.Weight is not nearly as important as bullet construction and to an extent secional density.
12-01-2002, 08:37 PM
#17
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Highlands Out there! Canada
Posts: 100
RE: 7mm vs. 30-06
stubble - 170/175 - same shiit, I don't use 'em. Obviously you can also use partition bullets, etc. with the same construction and sectional density in a 220gr. for the 30-06, so the weight makes the difference.
"as if it was necessary"??? - I guess you've never seen a big bear...
Have you ever heard of inertia? If you use two bullets of the SAME construction, the HEAVIER bullet (125.7%) is going to penetrate further and do more damage than a lighter bullet. That is a FACT.
If you don't understand that concept, stand there and have two guys run into you at full speed, one at a time - a 175 lb receiver, then a 220 lb running back, then tell me that there is no difference...
Use what you like, but get it right.
"as if it was necessary"??? - I guess you've never seen a big bear...
Have you ever heard of inertia? If you use two bullets of the SAME construction, the HEAVIER bullet (125.7%) is going to penetrate further and do more damage than a lighter bullet. That is a FACT.
If you don't understand that concept, stand there and have two guys run into you at full speed, one at a time - a 175 lb receiver, then a 220 lb running back, then tell me that there is no difference...
Use what you like, but get it right.
12-01-2002, 09:23 PM
#18
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: fort mcmurray alberta canada
Posts: 5,667
RE: 7mm vs. 30-06
Mt^boy-To start with the barnes x and failsafe are not available in 220gr in .308".Either of these bullets in 7mm will outpenetrate the 220gr bullets that are available in .308". Due to their construction they penetrate a great deal more than partitions or similar bullets(up to 50% more in most cases).Secondly the sectional density of the 175gr barnes x(heaviest in 7mm) is higher than the 200gr barnes x(heaviest in .308"
which will result in better penetration from the 7mm.Thirdly the heavier .308" bullet will be travelling much slower than the 7mm bullet so it will not have more inertia than the 7mm bullet.The heavier bullet(of equal construction) must have the same speed and sectional density to penetrate more.(my years in engineering have taught me the concept of dynamics and have shown me that inertia is dependant on both speed and mass)So in your own words get it right.As for not having seen big bears I have seen many grizzlies in the coast mountains of B.C. and have a nice grizzly rug in my den from a hunt a few years back.
Edited by - stubblejumper on 12/01/2002 22:23:52
which will result in better penetration from the 7mm.Thirdly the heavier .308" bullet will be travelling much slower than the 7mm bullet so it will not have more inertia than the 7mm bullet.The heavier bullet(of equal construction) must have the same speed and sectional density to penetrate more.(my years in engineering have taught me the concept of dynamics and have shown me that inertia is dependant on both speed and mass)So in your own words get it right.As for not having seen big bears I have seen many grizzlies in the coast mountains of B.C. and have a nice grizzly rug in my den from a hunt a few years back.Edited by - stubblejumper on 12/01/2002 22:23:52
12-02-2002, 10:37 AM
#19
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cedar Valley Utah
Posts: 977
RE: 7mm vs. 30-06
Mtboy, your intertia concept is flawed in that velocity is a major part of the equation. Its called momentum and kenetic energy that to which you have zero if your velocity is zero. The 7mm has more velocity, especially down range. A guarantee a 175 failsafe or barnes x will kill anything you could kill with any load in an 06.
12-02-2002, 11:36 AM
#20
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Highlands Out there! Canada
Posts: 100
RE: 7mm vs. 30-06
Stubblejumper, (& ratherbehuntin) Alright, I don't really have time for this, but...
I knew velocity was in the inertia equation, but I assumed that the weight advantage of the 30-06, 220gr bullets was greater that the speed advantage of the 7mmmag, 175 gr. I was right, but it was by a smaller margin than I thought:
(using 100 yards) Weight 30-06 by 126% vs. Velocity 7mmmag by 124%. I don't have the equation handy, do you?
I don't use BarnesX, but I assume if they are the same bullet for two different calibers and weights, they will be constructed to the same sectional density?
I knew velocity was in the inertia equation, but I assumed that the weight advantage of the 30-06, 220gr bullets was greater that the speed advantage of the 7mmmag, 175 gr. I was right, but it was by a smaller margin than I thought:
(using 100 yards) Weight 30-06 by 126% vs. Velocity 7mmmag by 124%. I don't have the equation handy, do you?
I don't use BarnesX, but I assume if they are the same bullet for two different calibers and weights, they will be constructed to the same sectional density?
