Froze At Night, No Elk, Left Holding The Bag!
11-19-2002, 06:16 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 7
Froze At Night, No Elk, Left Holding The Bag!
Three other hunters and myself hunted the early elk season. I have more camping gear than the other three and set up camp and my camp mates brought minimal other gear. We figured since it was early season we could get by with a cold camp -- first mistake, had zero degree bags but the cold got really old! Second, mistake was I did all the work setting up camp and my "friends" showed up late and left early leaving me to tear it all down! Even though none of us got an elk, I personally had a great time (most the time) in spite of the cold camp - beautiful country and a hunters heart - I'm hooked and determined to do better next year.
BUTTTTTTT next year is soured a bit with my camp mate's complaining about accomodations and using me as a (poor) outfitter. So, give me some advice: what's the best way to make a comfortable camp without breaking the bank and how to I get a group the works together and sticks together?
ColdMan
BUTTTTTTT next year is soured a bit with my camp mate's complaining about accomodations and using me as a (poor) outfitter. So, give me some advice: what's the best way to make a comfortable camp without breaking the bank and how to I get a group the works together and sticks together?
ColdMan
11-19-2002, 06:53 PM
#2
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: durango Colorado USA
Posts: 567
RE: Froze At Night, No Elk, Left Holding The Bag!
Back when I was young--we use to use back pack tents. Man that was cold!!!! Finally got smart & saved some money got a canvas wall tent & wood heater. It makes for a much nicer camp<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
11-19-2002, 07:31 PM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Elizabeth Colo. USA
Posts: 4,413
RE: Froze At Night, No Elk, Left Holding The Bag!
I agree with Colorado Bob, spend a bit more and get camp as comfy as possible, elk hunting is hard work, and you need to be able to relax when possible and eat well, otherwise, you'll be making it harder than it has to be. Your body will wear down if you can't sleep and eat well, making it harder to get out of bed every morning. And then, if someone gets one down, the work really begins.
11-19-2002, 08:28 PM
#5
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mount Vernon WA USA
Posts: 19
RE: Froze At Night, No Elk, Left Holding The Bag!
Hey Cold Huntbrrrrr,
Colorado Bob and Howler are right, canvas wall tents are really the nicest way to hunt camp. It is more expensive to start but pays big dividends in the end.
About your campmates, I would calmly and rationally slit their throats while they sleep.<img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle> Just kidding. I would talk to them and ask for their input on how to make camp better. This would open the dialog to allow you to air your grievances. Explain to them your position and that if they are not willing to pitch in then you are not willing to hunt with them. I had a similar issue with one of my hunt mates years ago when it was just he and I. He got his elk first day of the season after getting to camp late the night before. So of course he did not help to set up camp. Then that afternoon on opening day he packed up and went home. I didn't talk to him for nearly two months. When he finally called he asked if I was upset with him? I said of course and explained that hunting were I came from was a group effort and if he ever took advantage of me like that again he would not be hunting with me. He now he pretty much tows the line and camp is thankfully getting bigger which helps spread the load. Good luck.
Colorado Bob and Howler are right, canvas wall tents are really the nicest way to hunt camp. It is more expensive to start but pays big dividends in the end.
About your campmates, I would calmly and rationally slit their throats while they sleep.<img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle> Just kidding. I would talk to them and ask for their input on how to make camp better. This would open the dialog to allow you to air your grievances. Explain to them your position and that if they are not willing to pitch in then you are not willing to hunt with them. I had a similar issue with one of my hunt mates years ago when it was just he and I. He got his elk first day of the season after getting to camp late the night before. So of course he did not help to set up camp. Then that afternoon on opening day he packed up and went home. I didn't talk to him for nearly two months. When he finally called he asked if I was upset with him? I said of course and explained that hunting were I came from was a group effort and if he ever took advantage of me like that again he would not be hunting with me. He now he pretty much tows the line and camp is thankfully getting bigger which helps spread the load. Good luck.
11-20-2002, 12:21 AM
#6
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Posts: 1,964
RE: Froze At Night, No Elk, Left Holding The Bag!
ColdHunter,
You are on a subject that is dear to my heart, a good elk camp set up is a wonderful thing, to some as good as the hunting itself when you take into account the socialization and "hunter bonding." A good group of hunters working and pulling together builds a comaraderie I've seen in few other places. Regarding your hunting buddies, I've been in your shoes and can relate completely - - its no fun being used! If your story is a straight as it reads, then you are going to have to put your foot down hard and early or you will be "used" again next year. Here are some points to weigh as you plan your way to a better 2003 elk season.
"...arrived late and left early..." sounds like you are hunting not too far from where you live compared to folks travelling a 1000 miles or more, so I'm guessing your "hunting buddies" are really just weekend hunters hoping to run up and "pop an elk" and get back in time for the Monday job. You need more serious folks in your group!
Hunting Groups:
(1) Do you want to create your own camp or would you consider joining someone else's? It sounds like you are a hard worker who will actually put in both time and effort - you are a "go to" guy and those are in short supply. Believe it or not here are other camps out there that are looking for additional "worthwhile" members, they may have just gotten rid of some similar to your "hunting buddies". Since you have only invested one year in learning your area, if you can link up with one of these camps it's a win-win even if you go to a new area. They get a "go to guy" and you get someone with a knowledge of the area, has the equipment AND experience, and can greatly increase your chances of getting an elk next year! Don't assume other camps aren't looking for good people, i.e. time, money, attitude, and willingness to work.
(2) If you want to grow your own group and acquire your own equipment, then you have a key question to answer. Are you going to buy all the equipment YOURSELF and have it be YOUR camp or are you going to get a group together and collectively buy the equipment? You asked how can you improve your camp without breaking the bank, well, splitting the cost is a great route. Then when it is time to set up/tear down camp it is OUR camp and OUR equipment instead of YOUR camp, YOUR equipment, YOUR stuff. The downside is elk camp by committee, especially if some of your guys won't "come around."
There are advantages to hunting in a camp run by a camp master who "runs the camp" before, during, and after hunting season; enforces a standard; demands fair play, and molds the group by getting rid of the dead wood and adding new and better players. If you go for this latter route you will have to "step up" in terms of money, planning, organization and leadership. Your call.
Elk Camp Considerations:
(1) Recommend you use a wall tent with a wide sod cloth and rig up a floor that interlocks tight - no drafts! Arrange for a rain fly. Tents can be rented and sometimes the rental applied toward the purchase. (Be sure to set it up at home BEFORE you go up.)
(2) Use a VENTED heat source: either wood or propane. Don't use the catalytic "buddy heaters" that are unvented but use a low oxygen sensor. Most are sold for sea level to 3000 ft use and get quirky and unreliable above 8000 ft.
(3) Don't sleep on the ground, use cots. It is warmer and you have more storage area (under the cot.)
(4) Use both a battery powered smoke alarm and carbon monoxide detector, you'll go to bed knowing you'll wake up.
(5) and, and, and ..... thats the very basics - I'll stop for now!
EKM
Good judgement comes from bad experience, hopefully from someone else's but more often from our own!
Edited by - ELKampMaster on 11/20/2002 01:29:32
You are on a subject that is dear to my heart, a good elk camp set up is a wonderful thing, to some as good as the hunting itself when you take into account the socialization and "hunter bonding." A good group of hunters working and pulling together builds a comaraderie I've seen in few other places. Regarding your hunting buddies, I've been in your shoes and can relate completely - - its no fun being used! If your story is a straight as it reads, then you are going to have to put your foot down hard and early or you will be "used" again next year. Here are some points to weigh as you plan your way to a better 2003 elk season.
"...arrived late and left early..." sounds like you are hunting not too far from where you live compared to folks travelling a 1000 miles or more, so I'm guessing your "hunting buddies" are really just weekend hunters hoping to run up and "pop an elk" and get back in time for the Monday job. You need more serious folks in your group!
Hunting Groups:
(1) Do you want to create your own camp or would you consider joining someone else's? It sounds like you are a hard worker who will actually put in both time and effort - you are a "go to" guy and those are in short supply. Believe it or not here are other camps out there that are looking for additional "worthwhile" members, they may have just gotten rid of some similar to your "hunting buddies". Since you have only invested one year in learning your area, if you can link up with one of these camps it's a win-win even if you go to a new area. They get a "go to guy" and you get someone with a knowledge of the area, has the equipment AND experience, and can greatly increase your chances of getting an elk next year! Don't assume other camps aren't looking for good people, i.e. time, money, attitude, and willingness to work.
(2) If you want to grow your own group and acquire your own equipment, then you have a key question to answer. Are you going to buy all the equipment YOURSELF and have it be YOUR camp or are you going to get a group together and collectively buy the equipment? You asked how can you improve your camp without breaking the bank, well, splitting the cost is a great route. Then when it is time to set up/tear down camp it is OUR camp and OUR equipment instead of YOUR camp, YOUR equipment, YOUR stuff. The downside is elk camp by committee, especially if some of your guys won't "come around."
There are advantages to hunting in a camp run by a camp master who "runs the camp" before, during, and after hunting season; enforces a standard; demands fair play, and molds the group by getting rid of the dead wood and adding new and better players. If you go for this latter route you will have to "step up" in terms of money, planning, organization and leadership. Your call.
Elk Camp Considerations:
(1) Recommend you use a wall tent with a wide sod cloth and rig up a floor that interlocks tight - no drafts! Arrange for a rain fly. Tents can be rented and sometimes the rental applied toward the purchase. (Be sure to set it up at home BEFORE you go up.)
(2) Use a VENTED heat source: either wood or propane. Don't use the catalytic "buddy heaters" that are unvented but use a low oxygen sensor. Most are sold for sea level to 3000 ft use and get quirky and unreliable above 8000 ft.
(3) Don't sleep on the ground, use cots. It is warmer and you have more storage area (under the cot.)
(4) Use both a battery powered smoke alarm and carbon monoxide detector, you'll go to bed knowing you'll wake up.
(5) and, and, and ..... thats the very basics - I'll stop for now!
EKM
Good judgement comes from bad experience, hopefully from someone else's but more often from our own!
Edited by - ELKampMaster on 11/20/2002 01:29:32
11-21-2002, 08:53 AM
#7
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mount Vernon WA USA
Posts: 19
RE: Froze At Night, No Elk, Left Holding The Bag!
Elkampmaster,
It sounds like you run a tight ship. Do you need a Campchef? I can cook just about anything on a fire. Pineapple upsidedown cake, you pick the fruit cobbler, Blackbean Chicken with Basmati rice, and and and too many to mention
Campchef
It sounds like you run a tight ship. Do you need a Campchef? I can cook just about anything on a fire. Pineapple upsidedown cake, you pick the fruit cobbler, Blackbean Chicken with Basmati rice, and and and too many to mention
Campchef
11-21-2002, 09:26 AM
#8
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky (by God!) Mountings
Posts: 572
RE: Froze At Night, No Elk, Left Holding The Bag!
Camp ain't nuthin' more then a place to lay yer head an' heat yer coffee. Yall need to cowboy up. Elk ain't complainin' 'bout the cold, an' they got no cozy tent an' stove. Predators gotta be tuffer then the prey.
BJ
BJ
11-21-2002, 10:08 AM
#9
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cedar Valley Utah
Posts: 977
RE: Froze At Night, No Elk, Left Holding The Bag!
BJ has a point but he's someone who makes a living outta hangin meat. Most people I know aren't always upset if they go home without some. I used to run myself ragged until I bagged my animal but now its the whole experience that makes it worth it year after year. Being successful is great and when its time to hunt work hard but when huntin is done for the day make sure camp is comfortable, warm and full of good laughs and good food. Thats how you maximize the experience.
Canvas wall tents are a good way to go. And make sure you've got something real comfortable to sleep on. Tell your friends they are responsible for thier own supplies; food, utensils, water, napkins, pots and pans, plates, etc. That way if the stiff you on the clean up you really only have the tent to take care of on your own. What we do is share a lot of things but everyday a different guy is in charge of the meals. He buys em, cooks em, and cleans em. Also clean up as you go and when its time to leave its not all that bad.
Canvas wall tents are a good way to go. And make sure you've got something real comfortable to sleep on. Tell your friends they are responsible for thier own supplies; food, utensils, water, napkins, pots and pans, plates, etc. That way if the stiff you on the clean up you really only have the tent to take care of on your own. What we do is share a lot of things but everyday a different guy is in charge of the meals. He buys em, cooks em, and cleans em. Also clean up as you go and when its time to leave its not all that bad.
11-21-2002, 06:02 PM
#10
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scottsdale Arizona USA
Posts: 527
RE: Froze At Night, No Elk, Left Holding The Bag!
We cut two buddies flat out of the application and replaced them with one good hunter/worker. Now have a three man group and like it a lot. Takes us about once to cut the slackers out. I like a good and comfortable camp but don't need much to get to that. We eat good and I cook but the others clean up and we all pitch in to set and break camp. Elk hunting takes a long day with the bow and we have no time to pamper the weenies. You will be surprised at how fast you and a couple of buddies can accumulate the things you need for a good camp. By the time you get it perfect you woll need to replace the buddies that die from old age.