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Aww the elk cartridge?

Old 10-29-2006, 06:58 AM
  #1  
Typical Buck
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Default Aww the elk cartridge?

Elk are awesome creatures. Still in the deer family but have the toughness of a capebuffalo for taking rounds while still on their feet. They are killed with bow, muzzleloaders, pistols, and rifles everyyear. When I look back at all the elk I've seen taken in the field, I sit and ponder if one caliber or set up did the job better than the other? I believe set up of the complete package on the caliber and the shot placement makes all the difference. So from my personal experience of a ton of elk hits I base my judgement. Bare with me it's going to be a long one. Feel free to attack at anytime.

Big caliber vs small. No difference on how fast elk are taken down between the two when the shot is where it's suppose to be. The big caliber has an advantage when your breaking bone. What bones are we taking about shoulder or hip? That's the only two major bone structures of any big game animal. I'm leaving out the spine because that is not what your should be aiming at unless your a superior marksman and know animal anatomy really well. The upper two thirds of the shoulder can be penetrated through into the lungs even by a .243win. The lower third of the shoulder is a mean mass of bone that can and will turn anybullet or any caliber forwards to the front area of the shoulder and not go into the vitals at all. That shot placement is one best used with extreme precision. Aww the hip shot. While I have seen alot of bad shots end up in the arse section of a elk and quite devastating to the elk if it breaks the hip bone, its not what you should be shooting at in the first place. Unless your on your second or third shot and just trying to put the animal down. Nothing beats a through the ridcage into the lung shot on elk. Now said that we're moving on.

Does anything actually 100% dead cold stop elk in their tracks?
NO is the answer. You have seen elk dropped a time or two in their tracks but not everytime. It usually takes one or two to secure meat in the freezer.

Is a 7mm-08,.308 or 270win adequate elk round? YES. It seems to work well for the youth, women, and anyone else that believes in their shooting capability. Not to pick on ElkKamp but his survey may show you that most people use a 30-06 or bigger. But it also show you the 270win is in the top five and has always been in the top five elk cartridges of the world. That ought to show that the 270win along with the 7mm-08 and .308 is capable.

Whether you use the standard calibers or magnum calibers it all boils down to how the animal was hit and how the cartridge is put together. A person that buys most factory ammo cannot say my 7mm rem mag will out preform your reloaded 270win. They better research some ballistics first. Because MOST hunters buy whatever is on sale. The hunters on this site are die hard hunters that buy atleast premium ammunition. Now that changes the game. But I won't knock remington core lokts either I have seen way to many elk killed with those. Of course the advantage goes to the larger faster calibers that's just common sense. But what ranges are you going to set upon yourself to take shots at. If your only going to shoot up to 200yds why do you need something that is capable of 600 to 700yd kills? From a guide stand point on that.

0-150yd capable elk cartridges along with accuracy
30-30
444 marlin
45-70
Muzzleloader .50 cal and up
35 rem.

150-300yd
7mm-08
.308 win
338 win mag
375 h&h
416's
458's

300-500yd
270win
30-06
300win
ultra mags
short mags
weatherby mags
european mags
and the lazzeroni mags.

Now I didn't list them one by one but gave an idea of ballistically why they fit in those ranges. A 338win mag is beyond capable of a 500yd kill its just not practical on trajectory at that range that's why it falls into the 300yd class. The man that is knowledgeable in his rifle has no limits. But I'm talking about the guy that doesn't shoot that much. That guy should never shoot over 200yds in my opinion.

Bullets-
Wow what a topic. With all the new bullets popping up today how can a person say I have the best elk bullet going. Unless you've killed atleast five elk with it to make a positive basis off it's preformance it's still a ?

Any bullet that retains 75% of its weight after striking solid bone is adequate. Nosler partitions got it right the first time. I'm going to leave the opinions out of the new constructed bullets I've seen some things I liked and some I didn't. New doesn't always mean better that much I will say.

As far as the complete set up of the cartridge the person who reloads takes the advantage on accuracy, ballistic knowledge, and alot of times the power of the cartridge. Aslong as they are precise in reloading. I've also seen reloaders that should have bought factory ammo too.
Factory ammo has raised the bar on their quality of product and it's about time. But with quality comes price.

Last but not least when you put it all together only one thing keeps meat in the freezer and that's shot placement. It cannot be replaced by power or expensive equipment and all hunters owe the game they hunt the respect to practice and make sure they can kill it with one shot. Make the first shot count because the rest is throwing lead at it.

There are hunters, then there are snipers, and then there's that guy who's a natural born killer.

The hunter will by god shoot at whatever he can
The sniper will set up and make the shot
The natural born killer will practice enough in all positions that nothing gets away.

BEWARE OF THE MAN THAT USES ONE RIFLE FOR EVERYTHING.
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Old 10-29-2006, 07:09 AM
  #2  
Fork Horn
 
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Default RE: Aww the elk cartridge?

How Dare You!!!

What do you think you're doing? Introducing REASON to this board????!!!!!

What's next, advocating TOLERANCE????!!!!

At long last, Sir, have you no decency? Common sense has no place in this forum!

(Oh, by the way, Cherokee, I'd love to buy you a beer some time! Mega Dittoes on the post!)

FC
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Old 10-29-2006, 08:30 AM
  #3  
Dominant Buck
 
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Default RE: Aww the elk cartridge?

Great post and of great interest to me since I may purchase a new elk rifle in the next year. I agree that the most important issue is shot placement period. I used my trusty 06 this year and loaded up withfactory Vital ShokFederal 180 3006Rand Nosler Partition which adds 180 feet per second out of the gun (2880/ 2700). On the ballistic table it performs close to .300 Win Mag. There are many variables here and weight of gun, felt recoil and energy/ trajectory are all issues to be considered. Walking miles at 10000 feet made me willing to take a beating from a recoil standpoint with my little 6 pound 06. Perhaps I should just hunt with what I have. 1 shot and dead is dead.
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Old 10-29-2006, 09:10 AM
  #4  
DM
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Default RE: Aww the elk cartridge?

I've taken my share of big game, and i learned something a long time ago.When it comes to hunting tougher game i just moved up to a tougher bullet instead of buying another caliber of rifle i had to learn to shoot. After a while, i just moved to one bullet (weight) for the biggest animial i'd take with "that" rifle. (useing an average sizecal. to begin with) I alsostarted useing NP's full time and cured all of the problems once and for all....

This all came about fromthe extensive amount of hours i spent designing and testingbullets, always compareing them to what was already available on the market.

It's REALLY all about proper bullet construction "much more" than it is about what cartridge or caliber you use...

DM
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Old 10-29-2006, 09:55 AM
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Default RE: Aww the elk cartridge?

Cherokee,
I kinda like the concept of the "natural born killer"angle personally, but some folks get kinda antsy about being a killer rather than a "hunter" which seems to held in higher estem (a hunter that don't kill?).

Champlain,
Your set up should prove to be quite satisfactory.
I'd be quite happy if that was the set up that everyone wanted to bring to elk camp.
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Old 10-29-2006, 10:00 AM
  #6  
Giant Nontypical
 
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Default RE: Aww the elk cartridge?

I must admit that your post started out pretty good,however I do have to question your range limitations on the 7mm-08 and the 270win.To post that the effective range of the 270win is 200 yards farther than that of the 7mm-08 is laughable.It doesn't matter whether you compare energy levels or trajectory,200 yards is completely ridiculous.



Then you made the statements below.

Any bullet that retains 75% of its weight after striking solid bone is adequate. Nosler partitions got it right the first time.
As someone that has taken many animals with the partition and recovered many bullets,I can tell you that the partition is not a bullet that normallyretains 75% of it's weight.On average,the weight retained is from 60% to 70%.I have weighed enough recovered partitionsto see that for myself.
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Old 10-29-2006, 10:31 AM
  #7  
Boone & Crockett
 
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Default RE: Aww the elk cartridge?

Very good post. Some will nit-pick a bit on a caliber or two but you hit it on the head. Its shot placement and good bullets that get the job done. Many calibers will work and over the decades, certain cartridges always find their way to the Elk patch. Pick a caiber with enough bullet weight, good bullet construction and learn to hunt and shoot. What I have seen in the field pretty much confirms to me that you know where you are comming from.

There are many good bullets, none are perfect but the Partition has never let me down or dissapointed me with its performance.Nor has the Barnes bullets.
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Old 10-29-2006, 11:38 AM
  #8  
 
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Default RE: Aww the elk cartridge?

And your spelling is very good Cherokee!

DM . . . Excellent advice. I guess without knowing it, that is exactly what I have done! I have stuck with the .300 the past 6-7 years, but use different OTC bullet weights/types/etc for different quarry.

Much wisdom in your words.
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Old 10-30-2006, 12:19 AM
  #9  
usa
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Default RE: Aww the elk cartridge?

AMEN to the Partition's, .338 .250 gr federal premium ...7 elk and never had to track one and I've never had one go more than 30 yds before expiring, but I bowhunted for 30 year's and got into the habit of getting close, all kill's were under 100 yds
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