TerryM

We also always have had Timber wolves and also an ever increasing population of coyotes here in Ontario since god rested on the seventh day. We see coyotes regularly but wolves are just not the kind of animal most hunters will ever lay eyes on. Even if they allow you to shoot them the only way to put a dent in the wolf population is through trapping. In 30 years of moose hunting in wolf country I have only seen 5 of them and only 1 during hunting season which was in fact stalking me ( I was calling moose on opening morning ). His hide now adorns my den wall. I guess my point is wolves are near totally nocturnal and if those animal rights nutcases win and have those killing machines re introduced among your elk herds they will eventually kill as many as hunters and the DNR will have to slash your tags in half to maintain the herd. Allow that lame tree hugging plan to fly and you will be forever sorry.

ELKampMaster

I agree with you Terry, but it isn't just the tree huggers. We have hunters on this very forum that are pro-wolf introduction/expansion.

TerryM

Look if the wolves are already there I am not the type of guy who advocates going out and wiping them out, I don't beleive in that. But if you are lucky enough not to not have any then "Reintroducing them" is merely a method by antihunters to stick it to hunters.

MinnFinn

Just a side note TerryM., though timber wolves or other wolves may hunt significant amount of time at night, they are by no means only nocturnal. My family lives in the middle of timber wolf range N.E. MN, they and I have seen wolves many times of the day on the hunt or at least on the move.

In fact, a few years back we were ice fishing in the morning on Pine Lake N.E. of Duluth when the deer population was way down. We say a big buck running full tilt across the 1/2 mile of the South end of the lake. Within 5 min. afterward, we saw a lone wolf following directly behind on the trail of the buck. We could tell whether there were others paralleling or around the other side moving on the deer, too. An hour later, we saw the same scene replayed almost exactly. A buck (maybe the same that cycled back around or another) headed the same trail going the same direction. We timed it to see if anything was following. At 4 1/2 min. later we again saw a Timber Wolf trailing the buck.

I saw several other wolves that year near the folks place. But those were the only deer I saw all year!

I have more often than not heard a pack of wolves as they're pushing deer into an ambush at night. So, they may prefer night to hunt, I can't say.The frenzied sounds they make when they are closing in and when you know they've got the deer or moose is really spooky to hear. It sounds like a nightmare from another world in my opinion.

I believe what you say about being trailed by wolves. I know, I've heard people say there are "no confirmed" attacks/kills of man by wolves. There are, though possibly not frequent. I know loggers personally who've had wolves follow them. One had to get up on his boom of his pulp truck until they lost interest.

Many have lost domestic animals, dogs, calves, sheep in Northern MN over the years. Of course Moose pop. is held in check and deer go up and down with large swings in pop. largely because of wolves and some cougars I think.

rather_be_huntin

This is crazy talk! The decision making in Colorado management is lacking in creativity when the options are sharpshooters or wolves.

Since this is a National Park (No hunting) and the elk are fairly tame then all they gotta is ask around. I'm sure there is someone out there that would love to take some of these elk off of their hands and would be willing to help foot the bill to do so. I think Tennessee or some other Eastern states are trying to establish elk herds not to mention some places in the West would like some more elk as well..

So here's another option...relocation.

*Hiker*

Putting wolves into RMNP is a joke. They can't keep them in Yellowstone and it's 10X larger. I can see it now.....the snow falls and the elk move down to Estes Park and so do the Wolves...chasen them all over town and killing the wapiti in peoples front yards.

Kraton

"Kennan-area wolf pack decimated

DNR says a record number were killed; farmer says pack will still be a problem
Ryan Stutzman
THE-BEE
Wildlife officials killed an unprecedented number of wolves on a Kennan-area farm earlier this month.
Eight animals were trapped and shot, and two were shot from long range in an area where wolf depredations were becoming common, DNR wolf biologist Adrian Wydeven said. Those numbers exceed kill totals from any single location in the recent history of wolf management in Wisconsin.
During the past several months, at least two dogs and one heifer have been attacked by the so-called Skinner Creek pack, named for the area it inhabits. All of the dead wolves are from that pack, Wydeven said. Seven of the dead wolves are pups, he added.
One more wolf pup was found near the trapping area dead from a gunshot wound. Officials suspect the animal was shot by a poacher or errant coyote hunter. Wydeven said an investigation is unlikely because the animal does not appear to be a full-blooded wolf.
Several of the Skinner Creek animals might be cross-bred with domestic dogs, he said.
Wolves are protected under state and federal law, but wildlife officials have had the authority to kill some wolves in depredation cases since 2003.
Dog-wolf hybrids are considered to be a stain in the population's genetic pool and are typically more aggressive than their full-blooded counterparts. If it is certain that an animal is a hybrid, the DNR has more liberty to act.
"Some of them have very obvious dog characteristics," Wydeven said of the specimens from the Skinner Creek pack. "We would want to eliminate a pack like that from the wild."
But the pack has not been eliminated. The trapper in the case reported seeing at least one more adult wolf at large in the area, and three pups that were captured before Aug. 1 were released with ear tags (Aug. 1 is a benchmark date under federal wildlife rules).
Wydeven said the pups, each of which weighs approximately 30 pounds, have a good chance of survival if they reconnect with one of the pack's adult survivors.
Wildlife authorities ended their activities in the area Aug. 12 and will not return unless there is another depredation. Trapping began on July 29.
The pack has been a problem in the area because it was using farm fields as rendezvous points. It learned to kill livestock and was very aggressive to barnyard dogs.
"They were starting to consider it their territory," and considered other canines to be trespassers, Wydeven said.
The pack's boldness is part of the reason so many were caught and killed, he said.
The total number of wolves trapped at the Kennan site (11) also exceeds the previous record for any one location in the state (nine wolves were trapped at a site in Burnett County and released elsewhere several years ago, before officials had the authority to kill problem wolves).
Terry Wanish farms the land on County Highway J, approximately three miles north of the village of Kennan, where the wolves were killed. He said they have been gathering in his fields once or twice a month for several years. He lost a 1,100-pound heifer to the pack before the trapping started.
Even after 11 wolves were removed from the area, Wanish said he's not confident his wolf troubles are over.
"(I) watched seven of them in a field after the trappers were done," he said Monday. "There are lots of big ones left."
The dead wolves will be sent to two Madison-area labs for genetic analysis and other tests. Among other things, the tests will show whether and to what extent the animals are crossed with domestic dogs. The results will be available in approximately five to six weeks.
The precise lineage of dog-wolf hybrids is difficult to trace. Wydeven said verified wolf-dog breeding encounters - not initiated by humans - are extremely rare. He said in most cases, dog-wolf hybrids are products of human design.
It is illegal to intentionally breed a full-blooded wolf with a hybrid wolf or a dog in Wisconsin, but hybrids can be imported.
When hybrids escape or are released, they sometimes join a wolf pack, Wydeven said.
Wolf activities elsewhere in Price County
In related news, two full-blooded wolves from a different pack were trapped and killed earlier this summer on Ed Jasurda's home farm in the town of Worcester.
Jasurda's 14-year-old dog survived a wolf attack in May, and wildlife authorities started trapping there shortly thereafter. Wydeven said the two wolves - a male and a female - are believed to have been the only animals in the Musser Creek pack.
Trapping was attempted in an area south of Catawba recently for animals in the Green Creek pack, which are thought to be responsible for livestock depredation there. That attempt did not yield any wolves, Wydeven said.
The DNR attempted live-trapping in the Kimberly Clark Wildlife Area northwest of Phillips in late July but was unsuccessful. Those wolves would have been released with radio-tracking collars.
Statewide
In the state of Wisconsin, wildlife authorities have killed 16 full-blooded wolves this year, not including nine Skinner Creek animals that are thought to be hybrids. The 16 wolves include the two in the Musser Creek pack and one from the Kennan site.
There have been 39 wolf-depredation incidents statewide this year, including eight in Price County. That comprises verified occasions when a pet or livestock were killed or injured by wolves. Some of those incidents comprise multiple livestock depredations on single sites.
Twenty-two Wisconsin farms have had verified depredation incidents this year. There are also many farmers who have reported wolves stalking herds without actually attacking."

MinnFinn

Kranto, what's your point of the article in relationship to this thread?

TerryM

Minnfinn,
Here's another bit of info. My buddy is a trapper in northern Quebec and 2 winters ago he undertook a project of really concentrating on one particlar pack and he ended up taking 7 out of it. One day he felt like he was being followed coming out of the trap line and the next day when he went back in he did a bit of a loop in the bush around where his truck was and saw that 2 wolves had followed him out and watched him load up his gear from less than 100 ft away based on the tracks in the snow.
Also although we don't see many in the fall during hunting season they torment us nightly and literally circle our camp some evenings. The closest I have had one howl to me is less than 50 yds one evening on my way out of the bush. I tell ya I don't care how seasoned and tough you think you are when they get that close its darn spooky. I walked out in the dark with my .338 fully loaded and ready to roll!!!!!!!!!!! I hate wolves, did I say that already?

MinnFinn

TerryM that's pretty a pretty amazing experience. I understand that they are wild and they do what they do for their survival. Likewise, people sometimes need to do what they need to do to survive.

In this case, I think that Canadians have it right. You need under those circumstances to be able to defend yourself without BIG Brother looking over your shoulder to punish you is you have to. At this time in our country we don't have that basic right to defend ourselves or our animals against wolves and our west folks there can't do so against Grizzlies, unless they show they've tried "non-lethal" methods like bear spray first. Good luck trying to spray a charging bear in a high wind before resorting to lethal method.

Anyway, it's interesting to hear your and your buddies experiences. I used to like to hear my uncle Harold's stories of trapping and hunting of all sorts of experiences. He could tell the stories like so you could almost see the animals and what he was doing. Very compelling. Thanks